RAC4IT
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted January 17, 2003 10:55 AM
 Edited By: RAC4IT on 22 Jan 2003 08:45
Non-paying buyer MARK J.W.
As many of you know, I posted a rear wheel for sale on ebay. Here is a link to the completed auction:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1876277270
The following person (who is also on the messageboards) placed several bids on the item and entered a price they were willing to pay, but emailed me after the auction was over saying they were no longer interested and did not pay or complete the transaction. 
"I need to retract from this purchase since the black wheel is not the one that I'm really looking for. I need the red one for my red '00 ZX12R, and I just found the red one today locally in California"
WARNING: Do NOT do business with this person
ebay user id "ALEXMJW"
Mark J.W.
Everyone knows how ebay works; if you want to purchase something you enter the maximum amount you are willing to pay, if you win the auction it is a binding contract. Instead they wasted my time and my money, now I have to file a non-paying bidder form and wait for my auction fees to be returned from ebay, and re-list the item for sale.
The following is a detailed list of the amount, date and time this person bid. DO NOT CONDUCT BUSINESS WITH THIS DISHONEST PERSON. Obviously from the number of bids he knew what he was doing!
alexmjw ()(13) 92346 $350.00 Jan-09-03 09:46:45 PST
alexmjw ()(13) 92346 $300.00 Jan-09-03 07:10:35 PST
alexmjw ()(13) 92346 $250.00 Jan-09-03 06:32:57 PST
alexmjw ()(13) 92346 $177.50 Jan-08-03 21:09:52 PST
alexmjw ()(13) 92346 $172.50 Jan-08-03 21:09:37 PST
alexmjw ()(13) 92346 $167.50 Jan-08-03 21:09:22 PST
alexmjw ()(13) 92346 $162.50 Jan-08-03 21:09:10 PST
alexmjw ()(13) 92346 $157.50 Jan-08-03 21:08:49 PST
alexmjw ()(13) 92346 $152.50 Jan-08-03 17:38:02 PST
alexmjw ()(13) 92346 $147.50 Jan-08-03 17:37:49 PST
alexmjw ()(13) 92346 $142.50 Jan-08-03 17:37:34 PST
alexmjw ()(13) 92346 $137.50 Jan-08-03 17:37:22 PST
alexmjw ()(13) 92346 $132.50 Jan-08-03 16:16:12 PST
alexmjw (
alexmjw ()(13) 92346 $122.50 Jan-08-03 08:39:56 PST
alexmjw ()(13) 92346 $120.00 Jan-08-03 08:39:29 PST
alexmjw ()(13) 92346 $115.00 Jan-08-03 08:39:15 PST
alexmjw ()(13) 92346 $110.00 Jan-08-03 08:38:52 PST
alexmjw ()(13) 92346 $105.00 Jan-07-03 10:58:53 PST
alexmjw ()(13) 92346 $99.00 Jan-07-03 10:58:31 PST
alexmjw ()(13) 92346 $97.00 Jan-07-03 10:58:02 PST
alexmjw ()(13) 92346 $95.00 Jan-06-03 20:25:46 PST
alexmjw ()(13) 92346 $90.00 Jan-06-03 20:25:33 PST
alexmjw ()(13) 92346 $85.00 Jan-06-03 20:25:20 PST
alexmjw ()(13) 92346 $82.00 Jan-06-03 20:25:03 PST
NON-PAYING EBAY BIDDER ALERT
ebay user id "ALEXMJW"
Mark J.W.
  
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MadMike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
Posts: 6579
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posted January 17, 2003 11:28 AM
what a scumbag! Give him BAD feedback!!!! definatly!
MM
____________
200-MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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RAC4IT
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted January 17, 2003 11:56 AM
I already did!
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zrxdean
Needs a job
Posts: 2225
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posted January 17, 2003 12:24 PM
That sucks Bergie. Some inconsiderate adolescent jerkoff thinks he can do whatever is convenient for him. Don't worry, he won't get far in life. Burns my ass.
Anyway, how about a 'second chance offer' for whoever had the next highest bid? At least you won't have to wait for the next auction to close.
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RAC4IT
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted January 17, 2003 02:08 PM
Yea I contacted the next two highest bidders, no luck so far. I used the 2nd-chance post, when it expires I will re-list the wheel as I did originally with NO RESERVE starting at one penny (a real auction). What sucks is I had to pay non-refundable insertion fees, and wait for the $11.00 refund for the final sale fees. Basically that guy dicked me out of about $13, hope he gets his moneys worth!
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EastBayDave
Needs a job
Posts: 2245
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posted January 17, 2003 02:21 PM
Notice the last three bids? What a jerk....
____________
Enjoy the ride!
02' ZRX1200
00' ZX12R sold
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ddpete3
Pro
Posts: 1189
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posted January 17, 2003 04:52 PM
what a cocksucker.
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oldkawboy
Needs a job
Posts: 2125
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posted January 17, 2003 05:17 PM
I think the way we did business was a bunch easier. I hate it for you Berg, thanks for putting the word out on this guy.
Dan
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kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
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posted January 17, 2003 05:26 PM
quote:
Notice the last three bids? What a jerk....
THAT is what got my attention...ScummmBag...Loooser...wrecked your sale!!! >(
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worm~hole
Needs a life
Miles to go before I sleep....
Posts: 10623
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posted January 17, 2003 07:35 PM
..I've never bid omn e-bay, but what a terrible thing to do...uh...no...its more like what fucked up piece of shit thing to do...
____________
“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
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bike_junkie
Parking Attendant
Posts: 7
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posted January 20, 2003 10:51 AM
After you leave negative feedback, and wait the 2 weeks to get your final value fee credit, the last thing to do is put him on your blocked bidders list to prevent him from ruining any more of your auctions.
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what me worry?
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21894
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posted January 20, 2003 12:21 PM
I've editted the personal info out of your thread. Play nicely now.
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21894
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posted January 20, 2003 01:45 PM
Listen RAC... I've been in this postition before... people still know him by his handle and his email addy... it's not cool to go around posting people's home addresses etc. If you have a problem with this then please feel free to email me at fish_antlers@bikeland.org and I will gladly discuss it with you in private.
I understand that you feel that you have been done wrong. I am trying to help you.
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RAC4IT
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted January 22, 2003 08:44 AM
ok
ps- To comply with EBAY rules I also edited out the info from the other message forum thread as well.
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21894
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posted January 22, 2003 09:17 AM
good move... stuff like this can blow up in yer face...
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted January 22, 2003 09:40 AM
Bergie, Like I said elsewhere, be careful, because you may start to make me look "Reasonable"?? Naw! I am way too far gone for that  ! I also said, it has very little to do with money, it is more about Feelings. Once he feels like you do (Plus Interest), Then you can consider ending this! In the Old days we waited until they said "UNCLE". It does not look like he is there yet?
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jonwright
Needs a job
Posts: 2416
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posted January 23, 2003 01:33 PM
Er, just fer the record that ain't me...
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ZX12Girl
Pro
Adrenaline Junkie
Posts: 1740
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posted January 23, 2003 07:42 PM
LOL....Bergie, I had to post that bullshit from LABusas -
quote:
LegalMeasures
Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Posts: 1
Posted: January 22 Wed 22 55 Post subject:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This Is The ONLY Warning For Member "RAC4it"
This note is to make clear that I will undertake immediate and appropriate legal corrective action, since it has been determined that you (member "RAC4it") have knowingly engaged on this and other public forums in slanderous activities and harassment.
You have been using my personal information illegally by unauthorized publishing of numerous details from my eBay account connected to my eBay user ID.
This information has been illegally misused by you and consequently obtained by unintended users and inappropriately republished by the other members like "Your Car Is Slow".
This has occurred as a consequence of your violation of the eBay privacy rules and user agreement that provides appropriate forum and guidance for appropriate user conduct. You are in violation of a legal contract to the extent that warrants me to take such legal action as this initial fair warning. If you do not comply immediately, I will prosecute you to the full extent of the law.
This is a public forum. You are solely responsible and liable for your illegal action in public settings.
You are hereby informed that you have 24 hours to remove ALL the materials that may be considered legally objectionable and all other relevant postings from this and any other public forums that are slanderous and violate the privacy agreement of eBay against me or any other user of the eBay community. This includes my initials attached to my eBay user ID and any reference to that particular transaction other than information readily available to the general public on eBay.
In addition, as a result of your illegal activity, you now have the responsibility to publicly ask all the members (like "Your Car Is Slow") of these forums to refrain from republishing this illegally used information or I will additionally hold you liable for consequent abuses.
You are not permitted to reproduce or quote any of my private communications with you via E-mail or through any other media. They have to remain private like they were originally intended to, and as such they have to be immediately removed from any publicly published places.
You have to consider this note as a fair warning and final reminder. You should recognize the seriousness of the offences that you have committed and try to understand that by your inconsiderate action you are also endorsing and enabling illegal activity among the other members of the public forums.
When you engaged in eBay auction activities, you became solely responsible and agreed to deal directly with each independent user for the purpose of transacting business with any warranty, guarantee, refund, or any other offers, claims, or promises made by that independent user according to the rules in the user agreement.
If you will not comply with these contractual rules and with this warning immediately you will be held responsible for any actions deriving from your illegal activities.
To conclude, you are liable for any direct, incidental, consequential, indirect or punitive damages due to your illegal use of my or any other user personal information regardless if you did violate the privacy laws knowingly or unknowingly.
Considering your obvious and continuous inability to fully understand your legal options provided by the eBay user agreement and rules of conduct, this note should clarify that this is your last chance to correct your wrongdoing.
If you will not comply within 24 hours from the time this note is made public, you will demonstrate that you are consciously willing to accept all possible legal consequences of such inaction and you will leave me no other choice but to prosecute you and bring your criminal behavior to the attention of the appropriate legal authorities.
Also the management of this forum (labusas@attbi.com), the other sites and your Internet Service Provider (postmaster@cox.net), will be independently informed by my legal counsel about your misconduct and the legal measures that I am willing to impose against you and those sites if you will not promptly correct your misuse of ALL my personal and private information derived from the eBay account.
All of this legal measures will be taken to ensure that your illegal actions will not recur.
These legal remedial measures need be those that remain in my discretion, as long as they will be effecti]e for the benefit of all members of the forums and eBay community
The sorry ass couldn't even use his real board name!!!
Huuummm! I wonder who I can sue....seems like it must be easy these days!!! 
Do they have the Bidder black list option on Ebay? I want to put this jerk's name in my list!! Man, I thought there was a special bond between bikers!!! This guy can not be a TRUE Biker!!!!
____________
Life is an adventure. Are you driving?
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RAC4IT
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted January 24, 2003 11:45 AM
Yes you can block specific bidders on ebay; he's on my list now.
Here is a link to the LABusas thread:
http://www.labusas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=25734
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redelk
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
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posted January 24, 2003 06:28 PM
Edited By: redelk on 24 Jan 2003 18:38
A Long Winded Reply to "Legal Matters"
To further clear matters up, this is directly from E-Bay's policies pages,
Section 5 - eBay Privacy Policy
Your use of other users'information
In order to facilitate interaction among all eBay community members, our service allows you limited access other users' contact information. As a seller you have access to the User ID, email address and other contact information of the buyer or winning bidder(s), and as a buyer or winning bidder you have access to the User ID, email address and other contact information of the seller.
By entering into our User Agreement, you agree that, with respect to other users' personally identifiable information that you obtain through the site or through an eBay-related communication or eBay-facilitated transaction, eBay hereby grants to you a license to use such information only for:
eBay-related communications that are not unsolicited commercial messages using services offered through eBay (for example, escrow, insurance, shipping and fraud complaints), and any other purpose that such user expressly agrees to after adequate disclosure of the purpose(s).
In all cases, you must give users an opportunity to remove themselves from your database and a chance to review what information you have collected about them.
In addition, under no circumstances, except as defined in this section, can you disclose personally identifiable information about another user to any third party without our consent and the consent of such other user after adequate disclosure.
One should note the statements made in the previous section of eBay's policies,
Section 4 - Our disclosure of your information
Due to the existing regulatory environment, we cannot ensure that all of your private communications and other personally identifiable information will never be disclosed in ways not otherwise described in this Privacy Policy. (emphasis added by redelk)
By way of example (without limiting the foregoing), we may be forced to disclose information to the government or third parties under certain circumstances, third parties may unlawfully intercept or access transmissions or private communications, or users may abuse or misuse your information that they collect from our site.
Therefore, although we use industry standard practices to protect your privacy, we do not promise, and you should not expect, that your personally identifiable information or private communications will always remain private. (emphasis added by redelk)
One should note here that RAC4IT did NOT unlawfully intercept or access transmissions or private communications. This information was willfully given to RAC4IT by the individual during his successful bid for the properly listed item. The aspect of any "abuse or misuse of information collect from our site" might be debatable on moral grounds, but would hardly qualify as any form of legally prosecutable libel. (libel is written and slander is spoken - see additional legal notes at end)
Also in the "Policies Section"...
Publishing Contact Information
All contact information acquired during the course of an eBay transaction is considered private and may not be published on any online public area including the following:
Web pages, Online forums, Newsgroups, About Me pages, Board Posts or Feedback Comments
eBay considers the following information personal and private:
Name, Address, Phone number and Email address
Note: User ID's are not considered personal contact information.
Here's the "punch line" to all of this, eBay also states,
Disciplinary action may result in the indefinite suspension of a user's account, temporary suspension, or a formal warning.
There are no statements in eBay's policies, that state or imply that use of such information by it's members (as in this case) is a violation of any criminal or civil law. They would be under legal obligation to state such, if it were an actual violation of the law. Their policies are legal protection for eBay. Not for the members that chose to participate in tranactions on their site. "Industry standands" on privacy can not be confused with legal obligation.
Again, the charges this individual is claiming is illegal use of his personal information. The foundation of his "illegal use" premise is that it was used in a libelous manner. Though the tone of RAC4IT's statements were not of a "friendly" manner, the contents of his statements were completely factual.
This is a key point in this dispute. Another key point is that in no way, form, or fashion did RACE4IT state, suggest, imply or insinuate that he or anyone else take any form of action or "revenge" on this individual, with the exception of RAC4IT's recommendation of not accepting eBay bids from this individual.
His reasoning of "I need to retract from this purchase since the black wheel is not the one that I'm really looking for. I need the red one for my red '00 ZX12R, and I just found the red one today locally in California", clearly does NOT meet the criteria stated in eBay's Non-Paying Bidder Policy, under the terms of valid reasons to not honor a bid.
It appears that since eBay's Non-Paying Bidder Policy does not include the notification of the individual's failure to honor their bid(s) to other potential sellers on eBay, RAC4IT took it upon himself to notify those he felt could possibly receive a bid from this individual. Thus his intent was not to libel the individual, but to warn others of this individual's conduct and violations of eBay's bidding policies.
From a legal standpoint, the publication of this individual's personal information, again, freely given to RAC4IT by the individual himself, would not constitute as libel or defamation of character. For there to be a case of libel, some form of defamation must take place.
Legally defined, the defamation essentially is a exposure to hatred, contempt, ridicule, or pecuniary lossmust directly affect the reputation of a living person. It must be published, i.e., revealed to someone besides the subject of the attack.
To charge someone for committing an act of libel, the United States Supreme Court stated, the plaintiff is required to prove the colloquium (circumstances of utterance showing that the statement was directed against him or her specifically) and, when necessary, the innuendo (the factors making an apparently innocent statement defamatory). The requirement of colloquium makes unactionable defamation of a large group, e.g., a racial or professional group.
Generally, the statement's truth is an absolute defense in a suit for defamation. In recent years, the U.S. Supreme Court has allowed that only factual misrepresentation is to be considered libel or slander, not expression of opinion.
No factual misrepresentation has taken place here, in this case. Nor has any suggestion be made to perpetrate any form of personal, physical or financial action against this individual. Statements of warning, based in fact, to others, can not be construed as any form of possible defamation or threat against the individual.
Considering that there is nothing in RACE4IT's statements that would be considered untrue, his accusation of dishonesty was proven with the individual's statement and his obvious violation of eBay's policies.
As a matter of fact, legally speaking, the information in question, was willfully presented to RAC4IT while this individual was in the process of commenting an act of contractual fraud through deception.
If this individual chose to pursue a charge of slander, based on these internet based forums being often confused with "chat rooms", would be laughable. Still, if his legal council persisted on such a tact, their grounds would become even more difficult to prove.
Only certain types of statements are slanderous per se and do not require proof of pecuniary damages; these include imputation of crime, of loathsome disease, or of professional or occupational incapacity.
In other cases, there may not be any recovery unless the pecuniary loss caused by the injury is proved.
The award to the successful plaintiff in a suit for defamation will usually include punitive, as well as compensatory damages if the defendant willfully lied or published the defamation repeatedly.
This would not be difficult to prove... it would be IMPOSSIBLE! Seeing how neither aspect has taken place and the imputation of crime is not valid since a crime did take place. This would still apply if one was to refer to the statements in their unedited form.
From either a criminal or civil law standpoint, as I interpret it as this forum's moderator, RAC4IT has committed no violation of the laws of the United States of America. The same can NOT be said concerning the conduct of "Legal Matters". The aspect of any violation of the policies of eBay committed by RAC4IT is solely for the administrators of eBay to determine.
Speaking solely as this forum's moderator and in my own legal viewpoint, I believe it should also be noted that any action taken by the administrators of this forum to any of the posts made, concerning this issue, were in no way, an implication or acknowledgement that the statements could be in any way, interpreted as defamatory or libelous.
I also believe that any action taken to remove the personal information by the administrators was because they felt it inappropriate to make such information available to the public, as well as to honor the member policies of eBay. Especially in light of this individual's undeniably illegal past conduct.
IMHO, due to the illegal nature of his fraudulent activities and out of respect for the policies of another website (though without any legal binding or obligation), the removing some aspects of this individual's personal information can be perceived as a prudent course of action.
NOTICE
The above statements are solely the opinions and legal interpretations of redelk and are in no way to be viewed as the opinions and/or policies of the administrators and/or owners of this website and/or the forums contained within said website.
Also, be thankful I did not go into the legal aspects of fraud or contract law. I feel that "Legal Matters" is entitled to ONE legal opinion without charge. I'm afaid that any further opinions would come with "charges".
RAC4IT, you may freely reproduce my opinion (in it's entirety) of this matter as you see fit and appropriate.
eBay Policy Source: eBay.com, eBay, Inc.
Legal Sources: N. L. Rosenberg, Protecting the Best Men: An Interpretive History of the Law of Libel ( 1986); R. A. Smolla, Suing the Press ( 1986); A. Lewis, Make No Law: The Sullivan Law and the First Amendment( 1991); Columbia University Press2000, The Columbia Encyclopedia, Sixth Edition.
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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MadMike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
Posts: 6579
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posted January 24, 2003 07:17 PM
Hell ya!!! dude that is great!! I emailed the guy and just asked him to make it right and pay bergie's posting fee's... he never emailed me back. what a complete Ass!
____________
200-MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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