deathpulse
Pro
Posts: 1688
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posted January 20, 2003 09:00 AM
Maybe a better question is - am I smart enough to learn from these clases... (I already have the link). Thanks Psycho - I think my IQ just fell 100 pts ;(
  
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Zhooligan
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posted January 20, 2003 10:40 PM
Psycho... I am confused here. You talk about the fact that your favorite dyno is an eddy current dyno and that it allows you to change the air/fuel on the fly under a load. And the Dynojet doesn't. Are you in fact using a dyno to load the bike, and a gas analyzer to sniff the bike and then adjusting the air fuel using the power commander software? PrSounds like
pretty damn basic stuff here.
The tuning link software gets a motorcycle close and in fact the reality is the dyno operator makes the final adjustments. You are talking apples and oranges here. You say that someone used tuning link and then you or someone elso then fine tuned the map. What I would expect of any high performance tuning facility.
Our dynojet 250 is an eddy current dyno, I can load and or stop something close to 500 horsepower dead if wanted. Load the bike at any rpm and or throttle position. And yes we own 4 different gas analyzers/ pieces of equipment besides the sniffer that is integrated with the dyno. The fact of the matter is we use our ability to load the engine at different throttle positions and or rpms to fix tuning issues and or problems, and enable the bike to fit various riding styles etc. The MJP is not the only eddy current dyno on the market. And unless I am mistaken I doubt that the MJP can in fact integrate directly with the Powercommander. Effectively the MJP is not at the same technical level of the dynojet when dealing with Powercommander. The playing field for the two dynos is closer to level with a Yosh box or other non Powercommander set up.
Your comment about a Dynojet not being able to tune a big / modified engine is wrong. If that is the case then apparently the 2 or three dynos that MJP has sold in the country (maybe more but certainly less then 1% of the dynos in the country) are the only places that tuning for big / modified motors can occur and the thousands of qualified and experienced dynojet facilities out there are stupid and incompetent?
Regarding the big boost in horsepower on the busa mentioned above, again I would first challenge how much actual time and tuning was actually put into the mapping prior to your fine tuning. And again let us make this clear we are talking about a real mapping session by a qualified and compotent dyno operator. The tuning link software gets the bike close without wearing it out on the dyno. And I would also have to ask if you are talking about horsepower numbers between the two dynos of which we both know will always vary.
I understand brand loyalty but there is a point of enough is enough. You are very technical guy, meticulous and willing to spend the time needed to get perfection, that said don't blame operator error on a lack of the same commitment and attention to detail.
By the way, I would be dissapointed with 217 hp out of a 1500cc busa! But then I realize as you do that the busa could be put on another dyno and show 225 on that one.
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To those who do not count their life in years, but in how life
has touched them in the past and how much it can hold in the
future; -- Youth is forever.
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted January 21, 2003 08:35 AM
One Point that I may have not made clear enough.....The MJP actually Displays and MEASURES h.p. & tq while the brake is on, something that the Dynojet does not do. This is critical when determining the A/F ratio any particular engine want's to have to make strong, smooth power!
The "Tuning Link" map was made at Thunder Engineering. This is a certified Dynojet tuning center. Also, the 192 # was the BASE run on the MJP. The 4-Gas and Lamda showed too lean.....After Searching for the proper A/F whith the Bike under Load ( you can observe power increases real time as you add or remove fuel on the fly w/ the brake on) we were able to bring it up to the 217 # during the session.
As for the "low" #'s for Eye Abusa....Two things: We have very poor air out here during the summer months (low oxygen content and barometer),any engine is down 10% compared to the west or east coast. Busa's don't naturally make super high h.p. The TORQUE is massive and table flat on this one!
This is not a dig on the Dynojet or any other Dyno, This is an Information exchange that shows DIFFERENCES in how they go about it.
BTW..... The Thunder map indicated the Busa was makeing 205 h.p. after the "Tuning Link" session.
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You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
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kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
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posted January 21, 2003 12:22 PM
If you know the bike likes more fuel (real world testing) then...all you have to do is set the A/F richer on the Tunning Link 
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Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
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posted January 21, 2003 06:13 PM
I've never used a Factory Pro EC dyno but Some bike tuners swear by them. Of course they cant utilize the tuning link thou.
But once Dyno Jet came out with an actual dyno (DJ250) and the tuning link they took the wind out of the Factory Pro EC.
Have any of you guys actually used the Factory Pro?
The DJ 150 is the ones you see now for several grand used. They still work but arnt actually a true dyno.
Zhooligan, will the DJ250 EC disipate a continuous heat load indefinately? Or is there a duty cycle? In other words can you run an engine on it at say 400 hp for 20-30 hours?
In the automotive world, one that I'm much more familiar with as far as high performance engines, water brake dynos are the way to go. A very close friend has a racing machine shop and a DTS dyno. Its a whole nother animal. Much, much more complex. (if you need it to be) You can monitor dozens of things on the engine in real time and store and compare "snapshots" in real time. It can monitor exhaust temps on each cylinder in 2" increments down the pipe, and air fuel ratios of each cylinder, etc. You can actually burry yourself in data that can take days to analyze. Its awsome for developing headers for engines. Or the exhaust spigot inserts for the yosh pipe on my bike.
Anyway, being a water brake it can load down an engine for days.
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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deathpulse
Pro
Posts: 1688
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posted January 21, 2003 06:30 PM
MAN this is getting confusing. No real clear "super" dyno. Ok, I guess this is the current state:
DJ 250 = plus is that is "automaps" a powercommander (but does not include air pressure)
Water break dyno = LOTS of features
MJP = good alternative to dynojet - cheaper but no automap
Is that right?
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Zhooligan
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posted January 21, 2003 08:41 PM
The DJ250 would not run for 20-30 hours straight under a load, as it is not a water cooled dyno. But I would have to defer to dynojet on answering your question. we have ran it 3 hours straight with a fan cooling the generator.
I would also have to question the need for a 20 hour cycle. But I guess there is some logical reason for it!
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To those who do not count their life in years, but in how life
has touched them in the past and how much it can hold in the
future; -- Youth is forever.
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kcadby
Pro
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posted January 22, 2003 01:09 PM
 Edited By: kcadby on 22 Jan 2003 13:10
The DJ250 has a Brake-temp readout on it...
I've had the brake close to 400 degrees (EEEK)
THAT was on the bike with the Yosh-Box doing the 80% throttle mapping in Steady State Mode...
PC3s have me spoiled on the ease of tunning...STILL have to do manual tweeking though
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Y2KZX12R
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posted January 23, 2003 06:01 PM
DP, Its hard to beat a DJ250 for tuning a bike with a Power commander.
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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deathpulse
Pro
Posts: 1688
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posted January 23, 2003 06:19 PM
yeah, I think you are right Y2k - but its EXPENSIVE!! 20k... I just want oen for my house  . I thouht maybe I could get a used one for around 10k
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Zhooligan
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posted January 23, 2003 06:48 PM
I would do some searching and asking around because you may very well be able to pick up a good used one for that kind of money.
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To those who do not count their life in years, but in how life
has touched them in the past and how much it can hold in the
future; -- Youth is forever.
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deathpulse
Pro
Posts: 1688
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posted January 23, 2003 08:58 PM
well, if I can get one - DYNO's on me!!I'll have to soundproof my workshop so the neighbors don't kill me
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swft
Needs a life
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posted January 23, 2003 09:04 PM
Check amasuperbike.com and all the other big sites, you occasionally see one up for sale there.
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deathpulse
Pro
Posts: 1688
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posted January 23, 2003 10:00 PM
Thanks Swft! This may be a FUN summer on the '12!!
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spencercyclecom
Zone Head
Posts: 535
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posted January 23, 2003 10:07 PM
We just purchased a NEW 250 Dynojet Load Control with Airfuel ratio meter ect....
Should be here next week or a little after. I looked around at ALL the different Dynos made and decided Dynojet was the one....they are truly on top of the game. They just released a new program that we are getting with ours next week that has some improvements.
They aint cheap!!!!!!!
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Thanks
Doug Ray
SpencerCycle.com
SpencerCycle Center Inc.
Spencer Performance Group Inc.
Toll Free 1-800-510-1945 ext #10
International 1-800-510-1945 ext #11
Local/Tech 1-704-642-0987 ext #12
Fax 1-704-642-0987
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spencercyclecom
Zone Head
Posts: 535
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posted January 23, 2003 10:08 PM
dyno jet will sell you a soundproff room....around $11000.00. It works though
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Thanks
Doug Ray
SpencerCycle.com
SpencerCycle Center Inc.
Spencer Performance Group Inc.
Toll Free 1-800-510-1945 ext #10
International 1-800-510-1945 ext #11
Local/Tech 1-704-642-0987 ext #12
Fax 1-704-642-0987
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deathpulse
Pro
Posts: 1688
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posted January 24, 2003 07:32 PM
So, how good is the "lease program" they offer - maybe that is an option!?!?
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spencercyclecom
Zone Head
Posts: 535
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posted January 25, 2003 04:53 PM
did not use theirs ...bought the machine.
I hear it is pretty good
____________
Thanks
Doug Ray
SpencerCycle.com
SpencerCycle Center Inc.
Spencer Performance Group Inc.
Toll Free 1-800-510-1945 ext #10
International 1-800-510-1945 ext #11
Local/Tech 1-704-642-0987 ext #12
Fax 1-704-642-0987
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kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
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posted January 25, 2003 05:04 PM
quote:
So, how good is the "lease program" they offer - maybe that is an option!?!?
EXACTLY what I was going to post...even before I read yours...
The sound proof room works very well...
My boss has over 75Gs in the dyno set-up here...EEEK!!!
That includes a NASA Engineer designed 20,000CFM ventilation system 
NOT very comfy in there these days though...with the WIND TUNNEL feel that it has...I CAN'T even turn on the "cooling fans" until the motor warms up...AND is being run hard because...IT WON'T WARM UP
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swft
Needs a life
Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
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posted January 25, 2003 08:19 PM
Hey Spencer - Good to hear about the acquisition! I imagine yer customers are gonna be pretty happy with the service! But you know, there'll always be one that's 'disappointed'.
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Tearinitup
Expert Class
VP Code Monkey
Posts: 298
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posted January 30, 2003 02:25 PM
kcadby just an FYI: The EC brake on our dyno can take 700 degrees with out failure or damage so 400 isn't anything to EEEK about.
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kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
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posted January 30, 2003 04:03 PM
I know...I've actually had our's to almost 500 so far...Dang Yosh-Box (didn't want boss to know that, he think's 400 is HOT )
Only problem with that was...it melted/shorted the wires that power the brake  and THAT fried the control box!$!$!$
NOT Dynojets fault!!! The wires were routed too close to the HEAT (installer/OWNER did it)...
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