justoyz2
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Justoyz Racing
Posts: 858
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posted January 06, 2003 09:24 PM
02 help
Does anyone actually know how the 02 12 was restricted?
It's said that the bike is restricted via the odometer.
It is also said that a pulse is sent to odometer via the countershaft trigger(along to the ecu)
1. What is actually happening when the bike is going into restriction mode?
is...
a. fuel reduced
b. spark cut
c. rev limiter initiated
My odometer isn't working. My fi light comes on after reving past 9k rpm. If I turn the ignition (off/on) it resets
If the odometer isn't working what is the outcome?
The problem I am having is, my bike is running lean on the big end of the qtr mile. The mods are gearing, muzzy pipe, arm, lowered, pc3r.
60 ft avg 1:54,1/8 ml mph 116, 1/8 et 6:30, 1/4 avg 9:83@ 137mph. (all motor)
When I say lean, I mean lean. The pipe turns white on the inside>
I have disconnected the pc3r and run the same times around the same mph. I have swapped pc3r to a pc3, with the same effect.
no difference.(what are the chances that both are bad)
I have checked the fuel pump and even swapped it out(same result)
Around town doing normal riding the exhaust pipe is black, but when I make full throttle passes at the drag strip and at my testing
site, the pipe starts to turn white, reguardless of the fuel table settings.
Possiblities: fuel pump, fuel regulator, pc3(r)or odometer not receiving signal and shutting down fuel.
I think this is happening after 3rd gear. The bike seems to fall off after the 1/8 mile.
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ZHooligan
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posted January 06, 2003 11:13 PM
Ask Doug the question. I am sure he knows the answer! He's kind of a technical guy!!! 
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dougmeyer
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posted January 06, 2003 11:21 PM
Just a thought or two......
The "restriction" is actuation of the rev limiter triggered by the speedometer signal at about 186mph in 6th gear only. It does not effect anything in any other gear or at any lower speed in sixth.
Did this just start happening? A 9.83 isn't that bad, but the speed does suck.
Are you getting a fault code?
Can you swap out your ECU with another (02) and see what happens?
There is no fuel pressure regulator.
If you can't try some of this stuff, you need a trip to the dyno with an A/F hooked up.
Doug
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Hells Dark Lord
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posted January 07, 2003 02:10 AM
that is weird, I havent heard of anything like this coming from and 02? mine has ran flawlessly since day one, has 12000 miles on it, and has spent a few days at the track. I am not a drag racer, I just do it for fun...and I only run and 1/8th. BUt when I compare my times and speeds with the ones that justoys has posted, it gets me wondering....my 60ft times are more along the lines of 1.9 with 1/8th times being 6.79-6.94 (told ya I am not a racer), but my MPH is 115-118 in an 1/8th......my times are from a bone stock, street air pressured, off the road bike. It seems to me, adn from what Doug wrote....he is posting some pretty good times, but they are slow? How can that be? Speed is time..more speed, less time....Hey Doug, could that be a FI problem? Not refering to the ECU functions, but and actual injector problem?? just speculating.....thowing out some ideas if you will.........I am no mechanic, jsut trying to reason out this problem.....Jim
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When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
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justoyz2
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Justoyz Racing
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posted January 07, 2003 11:08 AM
Doug,
the problem started when I changed the fuel pump. The stock is around 80lph. I tried a walboro 155 lph. Since trying this pump, the bike has started to run lean at full throttle. As I stated earlier, I changed/removed the pc3r. The bike still runs lean. I can ride it normally and the tail pipe will be dark, but when I hit 100% throttle, it starts to lean out. I am thinking it's the pressure regulator. I think it got damaged when I installed the higher volume/pressure pump. I have since switched back to the orignal pump, but everything still remains the same. Is this possible to damage the regulator? I even bypassed the ecu(pump pwr wire) and ran it straight wired and still nothing happens. In most cased when the regulator goes bad, it's a rich condition(yes?) Any help is appreciated.
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justoyz2
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Justoyz Racing
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posted January 07, 2003 11:11 AM
todays attempts: run on the dyno: swap tanks/ecu(fastesr1)
Doug, if the odometer signaling wire is not connect, what type of a problem would that give, beside no signal being sent back to the ecu?
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Hells Dark Lord
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posted January 07, 2003 08:51 PM
hope ya figure it out Just...good luck
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When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
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justoyz2
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Justoyz Racing
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posted January 08, 2003 09:13 AM
ok, for those that looked at this post, here's what I found out yestereday.
The odometer wire(pink) was the cause of the lean condition. With the wire connected the bike pulled it's normal hp range of 166 to 169 with the muzzy pipe/pc3r/stock filters. The idle was a/f of 13 to 1
I made several passes, then changed fuel tanks(thinking it's the pressure regulartor), with the new tank(fastestR1's) the bike pulled two ponies over my tank. The idle was 13.6 to 1
Out of couriousity, I disconnected the pink wire and what would you know, this was the cause of the lean condition. The idle was 13.9 to 1. We did another pull, there was a premature rev limitation. It kicked in around 10,850 rpm or so. Normally the bike didn't hit the limiter until 11,700 rmp.
So, there you have it. The final test will be this Friday nite at the Hawaiian Race Way Park. The fastest I have managed was a 9:80@137 on motor. 60ft 1:52, 1/8 mile: 6:30@116(spinning).
If this fixed the problem, then the bike should run some 9:6ish around 142 mph(210 lb rider)
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dougmeyer
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posted January 08, 2003 09:23 AM
As I said, there is no regulator. Since you sourced your own pump, I'd suggest you check the fuel pressure. ("T" and a gauge in the input line before the fuel rail at various RPM and loads) Other than that the first rule of troubleshooting and change is: "Undo what you did last." So put the system back to stock EXACTLY and see what happens. Your last post suggests you are doing just that. If you are on the dyno and what you say is happening IS happening the A/F and power should take a dive big time during the run. If it doesn't, it ain't broke.
However if you are convinced it is having a problem on the track, you could instrument the bike with a gauge. (Run a gauge taped to the panel- you can watch the fuel pressure)
I'm saying this only because of the "suspicious" pump. If the condition exists with the stock pump, you've got an electronic problem.
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It's not that I think you're dumb, it's just that so much of what you know isn't true....
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Hells Dark Lord
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posted January 08, 2003 09:25 AM
good luck Just, keep us updated.....
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When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
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swft
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posted January 08, 2003 09:34 AM
Yah, inquiring minds want to know! 
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justoyz2
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Justoyz Racing
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posted January 09, 2003 08:44 AM
Doug,
In the 02, zx12r it has a removeable fuel pressure regulator! It's a non adjustable type the pressure it set 41 - 46 psi. I think the problem has been solved. "Out of couriousity, I disconnected the pink wire and what would you know, this was the cause of the lean condition. The idle was 13.9 to 1. We did another pull, there was a premature rev limitation. It kicked in around 10,850 rpm or so. Normally the bike didn't hit the limiter until 11,700 rpm".
Doug I felt you would know that every engine has a fuel pressure regulator. The pump for the 00/01 will work, but it isn't allowed to increase the pressure/volume because of the regulator. On the 00 the regulator is on the fuel rail at the end. On the 02 is on the black housing that incompass the fuel pump. It is removable, but you can't purchase another one from Kawi(see above). It appears to be Nippon part, so we might be able to purchase one from them that will allow more pressure, then the pump will not be so restricted. The fuel pump, pumps the fuel directly into the regulator and only allows a determine amount of fuel (41-46 psi). By doing this the extra fuel will stay in the tank, via the return regulator return valve. If the 00/01 has this design, the muzzy pump would not give any extra volume/pressure.
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dougmeyer
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posted January 09, 2003 02:42 PM
Just-
Sorry, maybe I should have been be more precise.
The "regulator" on the 00 isn't there to regulate an upper limit in the sense that the pressure would go too high if it was not there. The vacuum line on the reg. increases the reg. orfice size to DROP the pressure at closed throttle-high vacuum to prevent an over rich condition. The upper limit is capped by the size of the return. You are not working with a positive displacment pump, but a friction pump. The pump will maintain sufficient (45-55) pound fuel pressure at max. injector duty cycle and will simply stall (in the fluid-dynamic sense) at higher pressures. In the B-1, the internal regulator also does that. It is a pressure relief, not a regulator in the sense that I think you meant it. This has been pretty well flogged, but the deal with the higher FLOW pump (Muzzy) is that the stock pump may not supply enough fuel at high injector duty cycles (over 200 hp) at 50 psi. That is, the pressure can drop off when more flow is demanded. The pump just can't keep up even with the "pop-off" or pressure relief completely closed. The higher flow pump has a curve that maintains the same pressure at higher flows. Not every engine "has (or needs) a regulator". Many set-ups are just matched sets of components that provide the necessary flows and pressures for normal operation.
Regarding your post above- I'm confused - Was your net increase after "the fix" 2 hp? Was your rev limit fault in 3 rd gear only? What was the A/F at the point in the curve of the fault? Keep us posted.
Doug
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It's not that I think you're dumb, it's just that so much of what you know isn't true....
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justoyz2
Zone Head
Justoyz Racing
Posts: 858
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posted January 09, 2003 10:42 PM
Was your net increase after "the fix" 2 hp?
Not really, I had two fuel tanks, both stock equipment(2002) With my tank installed the idle a/f was 13 to 1, with the 2nd tank installed it was 13.6 to 1, with the wire disconnected it went up to 13.9 to 1. No It made less hp; the soft rev limiter kicked in around 10,8.5 or 10,9. it just stopped making power.
Was your rev limit fault in 3 rd gear only?
No, that's when Fastestr1 would pull off with a vengences. It was like the bike was being restricted somehow. That's why I was thinking I damaged the regulator or pop off, by installing that higher vol fuel pump.
What was the A/F at the point in the curve of the fault?
The dyno operator aborted the run, when it fell on it's face in fourth gear roll on pull.
with the wire disconnected it would not richen up the bike, no matter what I tried, even direct connection of the fuel pump.
Keep us posted.
I will post Saturday night after the races. It feels real strong and pulled the normal numbers with the muzzy ss pipe, stock filters and pc3r.
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Hells Dark Lord
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posted January 10, 2003 02:44 AM
good luck Just
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When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
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