swft
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posted January 03, 2003 05:06 AM
Poll Question:
Is the monocoque frame a dead idea?
Looking at the new 600, the GP bike, the Z1000, they all feature a standard arangement of frame rails. Nowhere except the 12R do you find the monocoque frame. Is it a dead idea?
Poll Results:
 5 votes (22%)
Hell no! I won't give up my monocoque until they pry it from my cold, dead fingers!
12 votes (52%)
Yep, that's one dead monocoque
1 votes (4%)
You got a problem? You want to go mono a monocoque?
0 votes (0%)
The size of a monocoque is not nearly as important as most men think it is.
5 votes (22%)
Once a girl has had a monocoque, she rarely wants to try something else.
  
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entropy
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posted January 03, 2003 05:27 AM
i love the 12 but HATE the reality of the monocoque. It was brought home to me one day at the track when a Busa/juice guy was checking his combustion chambers between passes with a fiber optic widgit. Try that on a 12 
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Ninjaman12R
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posted January 03, 2003 05:28 AM
Hmmm.....
Didn't Kaw build a race bike with a monocoque frame back in the 80's???
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zxlnt
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posted January 03, 2003 06:02 AM
Yeah they did. It was call a KR500. Square 4 500cc
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EastBayDave
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posted January 03, 2003 06:51 AM
It would seem the weight difference is not worth the tradeoff in stiffness?
Now if only someone could duplicate it in carbon fiber....
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00' ZX12R sold
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zrxdean
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posted January 03, 2003 07:01 AM
Mono a monocoque... LOL  I'll keep my steel double down tube, thanks.
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KZZ1
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posted January 03, 2003 07:09 AM
Not very user friendly compared to the twin spar framed bikes (Busa)
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swft
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posted January 03, 2003 07:27 AM
Or ZZR1200. That's what brought it home to me. You don't see them using it in the redesign of the ZX6R, or the GP bike, so that pretty much rules out 'cutting edge'.
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VincentHill
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posted January 03, 2003 07:42 AM
Every advantage has a disadvantage. Me, I am looking into just tilting the engine down in front to do anything. I like it for everything except work! I use car mentality to work on the bike.
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EastBayDave
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posted January 03, 2003 07:43 AM
Yeah but you know what? It's the most STABLE bike I've ever ridden in any situation...
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02' ZRX1200
00' ZX12R sold
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EastBayDave
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posted January 03, 2003 07:46 AM
quote:
Mono a monocoque... LOL I'll keep my steel double down tube, thanks.
Hey Dean! You've been silent lately; what's up with the ZRX? Done better than 8.88 yet?
Hey, do you or anyone you know got a set of ZX11 pistons laying around?
I'm about to tear mine down & do several things like: ditching the counterbalancer, lightening/balancing the crank, rod bolts (did you do Carillo's?), ZX11 tranny, head, pistons, etc.
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00' ZX12R sold
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swft
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posted January 03, 2003 08:10 AM
Wow, ambitious!  Hey, anyone have experience with Ivan's jet kit for the ZRX? I'm looking at jetting the ZZR to get rid of the 3-5k lean spot.
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swft
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posted January 03, 2003 08:11 AM
And vote damnit, dont just scroll down to the bottom of the page! 
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OZZY
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posted January 03, 2003 10:06 AM
It appears to add too much height in a bike.
I think a lower center of mass would increase the ease of direction change. (kinda hondas idea)
The thing didn't save any width for aero's either if I remember right. Isn't the busa's overall width no greater than the 12R?
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worm~hole
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posted January 03, 2003 11:46 AM
...correct me if I'm wrong, sepaerate the rider's weight, body positioning, and steering inputs, but isn't too much lowering of a bike's CG counterproductive for quick directional changes on a bike?...don't you want some high CG to help the bike?...mass centralization or mass positioning is one thing that can be manipulated to enhance the balance of the bike, ie. forward weight bias to help plant the front wheels...am I on the right track?
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Hells Dark Lord
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posted January 03, 2003 12:44 PM
<----isnt a physics prof by any means, but it woudl seem to me that you should centralize the weight.....too much on top and it wont want to come out of corners, too mch on bottom and you will have to fight it going into and holding in the corners.....even changing the trail will only help the weight centralization a bit...helping it fall into the corner......like I said too much physics for me....I just ride it, take it back to my buddy and tell him what its doing, he takes it from there......
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ZHooligan
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posted January 03, 2003 02:33 PM
 Edited By: ZHooligan on 3 Jan 2003 19:47
I won't say never, but I don't believe the benefits and or need for the monocoque frame are what Kawi and others might have hoped for. I vote for a frame that gives us good weight savings, a proper center of gravity and easy access to the sparkplugs, valve cover etc.!!!
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swft
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posted January 03, 2003 03:11 PM
I agree. I don't think you'll see it appear on any future models. That being said, it's truly a unique feature of the bike. I think the ZX12R should have had two more years development before being released.
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Scooter
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posted January 03, 2003 07:00 PM
Edited By: Scooter on 3 Jan 2003 19:08
swft go to www.zrxoa.org/forums There is a forum specific to jetting and such. Much info on Ivan's kits for the 1200. One of the guys(Marc11) has a ZZR w/Ivans and Muzzy's. I'm thinking of trying Ivan's needles in my ZRX1100 when I get the Muzzy zx11 cams in.
edit: oh yeah, monocoque,...?? You mean I could have more than one?!?!! WOO HOO!!
Seriously, if the motor could be shorter, as opposed to taller, maybe more layed down so the tranny and cylinders were at more of an angle to each other, without becoming too long, the bike could have a lower overall height, less wind resistance, and a lower center of gravity. For under $5K, and get 40 mpg, and...
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KZZ1
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posted January 03, 2003 09:13 PM
quote:
i love the 12 but HATE the reality of the monocoque. It was brought home to me one day at the track when a Busa/juice guy was checking his combustion chambers between passes with a fiber optic widgit. Try that on a 12
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zrxdean
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posted January 03, 2003 10:54 PM
quote:
I'm about to tear mine down & do several things like: ditching the counterbalancer, lightening/balancing the crank, rod bolts (did you do Carillo's?), ZX11 tranny, head, pistons, etc.
You knock over a liquor store or something? I found the Carrillos on eBay, but according to Doug the stock rods are pretty stout. Don't know of any ZX11 pistons, check eBay, but if you are doing all that work I would consider a piston kit. I've seen 1109 kits with blocks on eBay for cheap. ZX11 pistons will only get you 11:1 CR anyway.
FastbyGast.com has an undercut ZX11 trans for sale for $395 outright -bargain. Although if it has dogs cut off it might not be great in the twisties. Worth a call.
My bike is good, other than shorn sprocket bolts and a cracked radiator. I have all the power I can use now, and am focusing on the chassis. I ran a best of 8.77 @ 164 at Prostar, with an 8.81 backup @ 166. It was a perfect day
Good luck with the ZRX - feel free to email sabat@ufl.edu if I can help. With yours, mine, and krexken's, retro will be represented well
I voted swft...
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worm~hole
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posted January 04, 2003 11:52 AM
...it'll probably go the way of the Yamaha GTS-1000's front suspension...still, the 12R is a technologically different kind of bike under the skin (almost all modern sportbikes look the same at first glance) and I'm not sorry for owning and riding one...its a definite keeper me...kudos for Kawi and Yami for even trying and bringing it out something different...and really, they're not that bad, no?...shoulda' bought the GTS when I had the chance, too
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swft
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posted January 04, 2003 03:02 PM
Hey, did you catch that article on the 2 wheel drive WR450F? Doin the rally with it, methinks.
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