posted November 21, 2001 06:25 AM
Silver, the installtion was painstakingly flawless. Every detail was covered and then some. I simply would not have had it any other way.
posted November 21, 2001 07:59 AM
Edited By: dougmeyer on 21 Nov 2001 08:05
Speed,
Of course it's supposed to be raced, and sometimes things break when you race. Now, I know that is a royal pain in the ass to the "breakee" But it happens, it's happened to me a couple of times no matter how good a job I thought I'd done building an engine (which I've been doing for all kinds of professional racing since 1968). To repeat, (and Red , please correct me if I'm wrong) there was a bearing failure, nothing broke (which of course, also could happen). Bearings fail because of incorrect clearance or an interruption of oil flow. I believe you when you say the engine was assembled carefully, and my experince is that that Falicon is very good at journal sizes. SO, I've GOT NO explanation. Without seeing the broken parts I think other possibilities are: rod nut/stud relaxation, clutch "debris" in the oil/pickup, continuous operation at or above the limiter, oil starvation under braking unporting the pickup.
Let me ask you something. In anything except aircraft would you expect a failure rate under 1% to be acceptable or normal? I would. We are doing way better than that.
Regarding your buddie's poor running. Anyone should be able to tune a Muzzy equipped ZX-12 to run smoothly, with only a very slight idle hunt. If he does not have the latest mapping have him contact us and we'll send it to him.
Or maybe Cliffy would extend to him HIS map which is most excellent.
And here's a little reality check. Given that the parts (exhaust, etc) that a major team uses are very rarely the same as what you buy and that any major company is able to build to the teams desired configuration, the decision of which components to use is largely made based on WHO PAYS THE MOST MONEY.
Doug
____________
It's not that I think you're dumb, it's just that so much of what you know isn't true....
posted November 21, 2001 10:50 AM
speedgeek....You missed my point. I'm not trying to insult you or anyone else, however the world of motorcycle modification is a very expensive and frustrating place at the best of times. But once you get it right, there's nothing like it!
The difficult part for guys like me is hearing broad based complants like yours. If a stroked crank bearing goes after 1000 miles it was probably not a manufactures defect. They usually show themselves in the first hour. Inspect it, there's a reason for the wear, trust me. If a header weld breaks after a year, there is a reason, often impact or improper installation, inspect it and fix it. This is all part of the experience and the modifier's steep learning curve.
I know Muzzys team well, they are the most helpful and customer centric bunch of champions you'll find. Just check out Doug's interest on this and other boards. Try and get that time with anyone else. Muzzys produce quaility products, that make HP.
In summary, if you do not have a fundamental understanding of performance tuning, (sometimes aftermarket products don't shine like stock and most bikes require specific final FI set-ups), and the risk/reward balance, stay away from our world, it'll kill you.
Cheers,
Cliff
posted November 21, 2001 12:03 PM
Yeah, 1% failure rate is fine...until you're the 1%.
Guess I was the 1% with the header welds.
(found a pipe with better welds)
Better go work on my "fundamental understanding of performance tuning" before I'm allowed to bow down & worship muzzy products.
posted November 21, 2001 12:35 PM
That's a good idea geek....Once you realize what it takes to produce these performance products, you'll have a little more respect for organizations like Muzzys, and for the fine support they provide to motorcyclists and specifically we 12 owners, who by the way would be fucked without them.
End of thread!
Cheers,
Cliff
posted November 21, 2001 02:50 PM
hmmmmmmmm That about says it all Rob. Somebody at Kawasaki is eating a lot of crow for thanksgiving.
____________
2006 ZX-14 (sold)
2012 ZX-14R (Brock's Perf. project bike Louisville Slugger)
2013 Honda VFR1200F
2003 124 C.I. H.D. Super glide
posted November 21, 2001 06:35 PM
Well well got the big dogs attention Guess kawasaki will be begging Mr.Muzzy to supply parts for next years WSB & GP efforts!
(Since they're having such poor results without them.)
posted November 24, 2001 11:17 AM
Falicon can not only repair the crank but can do it inside a week. Looks like it's not going to be two months after all.
posted November 24, 2001 11:50 AM
Here is a big problem with this type of mod. Having a shop do this for you makes things very expensive. Whenever you do a mod like this a failure is a possibility and having to take it to someone else for repairs makes it a hard hit. Having the tools, equipment, and expertise to at least rebuild the engine yourself makes something like this far less painful. Also having the knowledge to recognize the failure will usually allow the proper mods to make sure this doesn't happen again. This is a very high HP engine under a shitload of stress and shit will happen. For the people who have built motors for a living it really is no big deal. Just the time spent shipping things back a forth, along with having to order the parts and hope you can get them all. Expensive, but far less than having someone else do it. IMHO.
posted November 30, 2001 07:07 AM
Fish- Don't believe I have seen an Akropovic on any winning Ducati. If you were refering to Ducati's dominince of WSB you have my complete agreement.
posted November 30, 2001 07:16 AM
Parking Attendant??? Fish, I think it's time you changed Rob Muzzy's status to something other that Parking Attendant. Suggest maybe Sponsor or Mr Green etc.
It might also help increase his participation on the board.
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
posted November 30, 2001 09:27 AM
On a lighter note... I've already tried to get Mr. Muzzy's (come on Doug, I can call him "Mister", can't I? *grin*) status upgraded. So far, I've been "shot down".
On another note, I can't help but bust with pride to be involved in on a site where someone actually "questions" a statement from someone of Mr. Muzzy's stature. What's makes me even prouder is that he replied.
SG, I don't think it's "Muzzy worship". It's appreciation for their participation. You see, it's like this... it's not just the aspect of what pipe was on the Superbike, it's who actually MANAGED the team. KHI has brought the Superbike team "in house". The manufacturer's of the Akro pipe are not managing the team.
Now, obviously the relationship between Muzzy and KHI/KMC has not soured. The same folks that make and distributed our bikes feel that Mr. Muzzy and his employees have the management skills and have asked them to oversee the factory drag racing effort. Again, such a request has not been made to the manufacturer of Akro (or any other brand) pipes.
Unlike any other make or model of bike and their related web forums, we have the participation of a group of individuals that have decades of experience in factory sponsored racing. No other forum can make such a claim. Do I bow down in the presence of Mr. Muzzy or Mr. Meyer (couldn't resist)? Nope. On the other hand, if Kenny Roberts was to offer to give you some riding tips, would you be appreciative? I know I would.
That is why I say that we here are appreciative of the participation of Mr. Muzzy and Doug (who'd also be a "Parking Attendent" if he wasn't a Moderator), but it's not "worship". Does it keep us from asking "hardball" questions of their products? It better not! To avoid such does a diservice to bothe the members here as well as the participation of the Muzzy folks. I believe that is the MAIN REASON they are here... to help answer the "hardball" questions.
Also, everyone that uses their products can provide them with invalualbe information of long term real world application of said products. This is a benefit the helps all of us.
posted November 30, 2001 09:55 AM
firstly... Rob.... it was the latter I was mentioning.... which kinda ties into the former, doesnt it? Ducati's dominance on the WBSK cicuit would have surely had an effect on Kawasaki no matter what kit they were running(?).. that was my point... (actually this could make for an interesting discussion)
... as for parking cars... we've been through this before...
this site is a "level playing field".. people dont need special titles ..... your status on the board is determined by your level of participation (read: posting/contributing) ... people have to earn that... it doesnt matter if you're George Bush or some wino who got his hands on a laptop... the amount that you contribute here determines your status... When Rob posts a little bit more he'll upgrade his status... until then he has a few more cars to park.. the rest of you should appreciate that as many of you are still parking cars.....
posted November 30, 2001 12:12 PM
Fish, I have no problem with the parking lot status. After all I spent 30 years eating beans and sleeping in my van next to the race bikes before I became the person you all know. By the way I think we were the only 4 cyl.Team to win the WSB champioship in the last decade. There was a great deal of pride in our Team when we stopped the Ducati dominence with our win. I might also mention that was before the Ducati's had to add wieght.
posted November 30, 2001 02:04 PM
Edited By: fish_antlers on 30 Nov 2001 14:08
I know that you have no prob with the parking lot status... it's the other guys who are having a problem for you! (kinda funny) ....
We should take this to a different thread...(this has nothing to do with a 1361 kit)
I will start a new one... please respond here instead:
posted December 01, 2001 10:50 AM
Apology I would like to extend a completely, honest, sincere and heartfelt apology to any and all that may have been offended by my previous statements.
Used to love watching SR wax Foggy & the other Ducati boys every chance I could.
& still to this very day think that SR shot himself in the foot when he jumped at the chance to get into GP racing. But...that's just my opinion.
Mr.Muzzy
CR
and everyone else have a wonderful holiday season.
HOME
NEW TOPIC
posted November 21, 2001 06:25 AM
Edited By: 
posted November 21, 2001 02:50 PM
posted November 21, 2001 06:35 PM
posted November 30, 2001 07:16 AM
However, I agree that Parking Attendant is kinda silly. How bout 'GoFast Guru'??
posted November 30, 2001 09:27 AM
the rest of you should appreciate that as many of you are still parking cars.....
