mrsantafe
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posted January 03, 2003 02:20 AM
paging turboblew
I own an 02 zx12 with hindle pipe, 1 tooth down front sprocket,k+n, and ign advancer. Bike dyno's 171 hp. I weigh 205 lb without leathers.
My buddy owns a 1985 750 turbo. It has an 810 and an upgraded stage 5 turbo(in the works). He weighs about 265. I beleive he will be a ligitimate threat in a drag racing scenario, especially roll on racing. Should I be worried? How much hp will his bike make? What would you do to a 12 to beat this turbos potential? How fast will the turbos top end be? We race primarily roll ons. I know you own both bikes hence the questions. thanks!!
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9.78@155.13 mph 1.71 60 ft @ a near mile high dragstrip
2006 ZX14 gone
2006 ZX10r (Wifes street bike)
2004 zx10r (her race bike)
2002 ZX12 (still kicking a--)
2007 gsxr 1k (race bike)
  
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TurboBlew
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posted January 03, 2003 03:53 AM
Rollons from ~60mph, you'll be left for dead... even with a stock motored bike. You can catch back up after 115-120mph or so.
Judging from what you're telling me, that bike could potentially be over 200hp at the rear wheel with the boost turned up.
My 880 made 160rwhp on pump gas at 13lbs of boost. Still have another 11 or so lbs of boost to turn up.
As far as top end #s, Im still trying to figure that out. You'd be suprised how fast those bikes are for a "dinosaur"....lol
Im going to let a 1361 12 owner take my turbo for a ride and we'll run them against each other. Should be interesting. 
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mrsantafe
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posted January 03, 2003 07:42 PM
thanks for the reply, I guess I'll either get a 1361 or some juice to put him away.
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9.78@155.13 mph 1.71 60 ft @ a near mile high dragstrip
2006 ZX14 gone
2006 ZX10r (Wifes street bike)
2004 zx10r (her race bike)
2002 ZX12 (still kicking a--)
2007 gsxr 1k (race bike)
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ZHooligan
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posted January 03, 2003 07:54 PM
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RAC4IT
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posted January 03, 2003 08:24 PM
Depends on who is the better rider? Horsepower isn't everything 
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posted January 03, 2003 09:14 PM
It is from a 60mph roll lol
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ZHooligan
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posted January 03, 2003 09:31 PM
You don't let the turbo pick the pace! 60 mile an roll ons will likely favor the turbo. In my case I don't care! 1361 and juice.
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TurboBlew
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posted January 03, 2003 10:41 PM
Ill give ya a report of a 1361 vs a Turbo from various speeds real soon...lol
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mrsantafe
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posted January 04, 2003 01:21 AM
That will be neat to here turboblew, my buddy and i are pretty competitive with each other. Now dont laugh at these times. My zx12 stock with 1 tooth in front at the drags in roswell nm (elev. 3600 ft no vht on the track little 4 banger hondas rolling through the waterbox and the bike set up as delivered.(stock air pressure suspension setting)ran 10.76 @ 134 mph. 1.85 60ft. My buddies 810 turbo- stretched, slammed, geared, skinny little stock tired ran 11.6 @122mph. The clutch was slipping and the same above crudy conditions. Probably would have run a 11.3-11.4 if clutch wasnt toast. These ets were achieved with my little a-- (205 lb)riding it. My bud ways 65 lb more!! so i et'd slightly better then him.1.9-1.95 60ft times. Now his bike is not optimized I think he was seeing around 12-14 lb boost. Still my BIG friend 270lb did do rollon races with my HUGE friend who owns a stock 98 honda blackbird (300 lbs) and the turbo won from low speed rolls up to about 130 mph. Turboblew when you race Boos'es and zx12's in the 9/10 of a mile what happens from start to finish and how much hp does the turbo make? thanks!
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9.78@155.13 mph 1.71 60 ft @ a near mile high dragstrip
2006 ZX14 gone
2006 ZX10r (Wifes street bike)
2004 zx10r (her race bike)
2002 ZX12 (still kicking a--)
2007 gsxr 1k (race bike)
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posted January 04, 2003 01:51 AM
Well...the 1361 he is racing is quite peppy....I only put a few bikes on him from a similar 3rd gear roll recently.
I dunno if his GPZ has enough nuts at only 14psi to keep up.
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Turbobike
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posted January 04, 2003 08:18 PM
ZX12 vs. GPZ Turbo
Well...well....
I'm the Turbo owner in question. Hey Steve, remember me. I was suppose to buy your bike and you flaked last year? Oh well, let bygones be bygones.
Anyway, I would have to disagree about a stock 112hp turbo bike keeping up with a stock 153-163hp ZX12R. My ZRX1200R would be a better match.
Gee, do the math!
Even a mildly modded Turbo(exhaust, filter, bypass valve, boost to 24psi max---17-18psi is more realiable, etc.) would barely keep up with one. I'm talking about 140-145hp tops. I know since I've owned 4 of them with different configurations. Stock, mild, full out.
Unless the rider is a pro weighin' in at a measely 130lbs w/leathers and the bike truly makes 112+ at the RW and the ZX12R owner like my friend weighs in at about 220lbs w/leathers, a turbo could be close up to 75mph then get smoked because all out HP & TQ is broader and aerodynamics with the modern NA bikes are better. Stock turbos are peaky, especially when you put more boost in. Nothing under the curve.......if you want to call it a curve. It falls on it's arse after the peak is reached. The only way to make good power is with a larger turbo that flows well into the highest RPM.
Turboblew. Your 880 bike makes 160hp with 13psi. My mild 750 w/all of the bolt-ons, etc. with 13psi made SAE 120HP @79ft/lbs. TQ. This dyno was off by 5-6% compared to properly calibrated dynos. So 126hp peak and maybe 80ft/lbs peak would be more like it. Now as far as the average HP & TQ through out the RPM scale is concerns......weak!!!!!!!!!!! I saw your Dyno sheet and can clearly see the difference with your Stage IV setup. Granted, the 880 helps.
My 810 bike has a stock turbo w/ a slightly better inlet impellar. Not a Stage II from Mikes unfortunately. It spools up like a stocker yet flows a bit more up top. Now this bike could MPH better. Because of the extreme(for a turbo bike) gearing that currently resides in the bike, I believe a 3-5mph gain is possible. ET depends on the new clutch-spring combo and my riding abilities. With a 6" swing arm I should be in the 1.60 60ft. range at least. And if I lose 50lbs. that should help too! Now if I get my turbo back from Mike of Horsepower Unlimited soon, I will put it on along with my intercooler before my 880 project. Should help make at least 190-200hp with 24psi.
Don't get me wrong, I love the 750 Turbos! But be a little more realistic about the stock to mild ones. My 880 w/ported head and cams, Intercooled Stage V Turbo in the works should kick some a-hole. The bike is being converted to ZX11 suspension as we speak. My goal is 230hp with Mike's help.
It only takes money, right?
Can't wait to see the outcome on the 1361 vs. TurboBlew race. Keep us posted!
Steve
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posted January 04, 2003 11:21 PM
quote:
Anyway, I would have to disagree about a stock 112hp turbo bike keeping up with a stock 153-163hp ZX12R. My ZRX1200R would be a better match.
Gee, do the math!
I think he meant a stock motored 12R there bud.
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TurboBlew
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posted January 05, 2003 12:13 AM
Steve, there is no math to do.
I will explain.
I have 4 friends in NJ with turbos, hence the nickname, Jersey Boys on the TMOIA.
I took two of the strongest ones (112hp and 130hp) with capable riders and we went out on Route 80 and rolled on back and forth . At a 60mph roll, the turbos will walk a 12...that is until 120 or so. Im sure if you put the torque curves up on paper, you would see exactly what Im talking about.
My 12 had lighter wheels, a pipe, pc3, 30lbs trimmed off, and a billet basket.
Now if we go from a drag race start the story is different. My friends cant 60ft well, so there wasnt a valid comparison. I could get out on them with a turbo or 12!
But for grins, I have raced YCIS's bike with "granny" geared 880. He inched me out by a wheel in the 1/4, but only because I had waaayy too much gear and I set the rev limiter to 10k and about 12lbs of boost. His bike is geared too, but I shifted 3 times in the first 300ft, whereas he shifted 3 times to whole run. That is where he beats me.
You know I have another 2-3k to rev it plus about 12lbs of boost I can get into. Plus once I finish up my suspension, its all over for those guys...hehe.
Its gonna be fun having him fog me when Im tagging the 2 stage.
Its the same with the old FZR1000s with the 20valve heads. THose bikes can walk anything from a 60mph roll...well anything thats not turboed or sprayed...hehe.
Alittle trick when rolling on is to have the bike build boost while dragging the rear brake. Works everytime!
quote:
...Anyway, I would have to disagree about a stock 112hp turbo bike keeping up with a stock 153-163hp ZX12R. My ZRX1200R would be a better match.
Gee, do the math!
.....
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TurboBlew
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posted January 05, 2003 12:24 AM
BTW, my bike is very lean...so the dyno sheet I had isnt all that great. Plus the fact that the gas tank was 150degrees didnt help matters much either that day. THat sheet was on pure 93 octane straight from a pump. I could realistically see a few more ponies from race gas and I still have the 2" dump on. I have a 2 1/2" pipe sitting on my bench.
I should have some concrete data and real world tuning combos very soon.
Im waiting on a few parts and vendors to ship me items.
I realize what you are saying about the turbos being "limited" is some respects. I know I can et my 12 alot better than I could with the turbo, but they are two different bikes. Its will run with 90% of the streetbikes out and drop alot of jaws..hehe. THats what I like about the bike.
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Turbobike
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posted January 05, 2003 10:15 AM
I know about using the brake and building up boost before take off, but I've seen different outcomes over here. It diffenitely helps and pulls hard. The one thing that sucks with Turbos is that weather changes the bikes performance a lot more than the NA guys. Thus an intercooler and good fuel is necessary in my book.
The only thing I can figure is the lack of air up here at 5200'. Usually forced induced vehicles(like the many I own)do not suffer as much as the NAs since all you nromally have to do is turn up the wick to compensate, but the 750Turbo doesn't fair quite so well. Spool is a lot slower up here and after the peak HP, the power drops considerably. I can turn up the boost but that just allows it to put more HP at peak and dip as fast. I've also been only able to put out no more than 14 psi on a stock turbo. I rode the mild modded 750 in San Diego and boy did it run well when not in boost and pulled better past redline. My buddie had a Busa at the time and said it felt as fast as his old Thunderace 1000. He was impressed......coming from an ex-busa owner....lol
So it's hard to say. My experience is probably going to be different than yours because of altitude. If you guys ever have the huevos to come up to 5200' +, you will understand why 10.80's @ 132 or slower is the norm. The air up here sucks!
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TurboBlew
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posted January 05, 2003 04:11 PM
Well we did some roll ons and without trying to sound like Im making excuses, the 1361 pulls convinicingly from a 70mph roll.
Slower speeds, like ~30-50mph its much closer between the two, but still the stump pulling grunt of that large motor frieght trains away after 90mph or so.
Considering Im 450ccs and 50hp shy of that 12, my old "donor-saur" did ok.
I filled up with 100 octane after the ride today and the bike didnt ping like crazy or detonate.
Guess its going to have to be race gas only from now on.
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Turbobike
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posted January 05, 2003 04:36 PM
So TurboBlew. I'm assumimg you were on the first stage only. Now if you were to utilize race fuel with the 2nd stage would things change that much? The 1361 should be 200hp+, right?
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TurboBlew
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posted January 05, 2003 05:46 PM
Yes, dial a boost is turned way down and Im not tagging the second stage.
Would it change much? Yes it would , but the gearing would have to be changed. Keep in mind the bike is still set for 10k rpm limit.
I could nail the bike at 5-6k and it would come up and by the time I was ready to shift, it was running into the rev limiter
The 1361 12 has an added avantage at the highway speeds obviously.
The 1361 is strong as hell!
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Turbobike
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posted January 05, 2003 08:20 PM
I'm sure the 1361 is powerful. My friend use to have his Busa up to 185HP and 110ft./lbs. TQ. Very fast and lotsa of fun with the TQ at 100 ft./lbs. TQ band from 4500-8500. This bike may had a few more ponies with more dyno time. This was with no stroke job. I loved it but he sold it because some bozo mechanic screwed it up. Thus the ZX12R. He missed the TQ. But he is in the market for his ZX12R to help satisfy his cravings....lol!
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posted January 05, 2003 08:45 PM
The 1361 in question is making 210/114 I believe.
I was making 225/138 and only pulled him a bit from a 3rd gear 60mph roll. Rider is about 190lbs to my 240
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ZHooligan
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posted January 05, 2003 09:02 PM
The 1361 needs to merely run you on a mile a long straightaway and let you run NOS until your empty or blown up! Honest Horsepower will eventually get you!
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TurboBlew
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posted January 05, 2003 09:08 PM
Hehe Zhooligan, he said he "dont like to fill a bottle".
I gotta say its a "fast" streetbike motor. On a blown pass in the 1/8th he went 119!
"Honest hp"... I like that one
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posted January 05, 2003 09:29 PM
Yep...its a mover....3 over arm and a shinko help out keepin that front tire down
Think its time for a 3 over arm on mine
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TurboBlew
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posted January 05, 2003 10:31 PM
Yeah it keeps the front down... but roasts that Shinko like marshmellows at a campfire...hehe
quote:
....3 over arm and a shinko help out keepin that front tire down
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mrsantafe
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posted January 06, 2003 01:24 AM
Thanks fellows for all of these replies. TurboBlew what should I get for my zx12? Whatever I get it needs to be stone reliable! Zooligan I have read you have the 1270 and 1361. Any thoughts on muzzys big block kit 1317? What do our zx12 brothers think? Im not very mechanically inclined, I don't trust anyone locally to build my bike. Im looking to stay ahead of my pal and I really don't wanna use nos. I know modded 750 turbos can kick some a--! Please, feel free to add some input.
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9.78@155.13 mph 1.71 60 ft @ a near mile high dragstrip
2006 ZX14 gone
2006 ZX10r (Wifes street bike)
2004 zx10r (her race bike)
2002 ZX12 (still kicking a--)
2007 gsxr 1k (race bike)
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