Andre Avigdor
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posted December 21, 2002 10:00 PM
Was the 2000 ZX-12R restricted?
I was reading through the articles as I was scanning them for my webpage and came accross the following article that claims the 2000 ZX-12R was restricted for both top speed and acceleration. This contradicts everything I have been reading on the various boards that say the 2000 was 'unrestricted'.
What's the truth behind this ???
  
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ZHooligan
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posted December 21, 2002 10:31 PM
No it is not or was not restricted. Kawasaki just didn't pay enough attention to the effects of the aerodynamics, The Busa goes faster or as fast with less power. The 2000 goes faster with engine mods (more horsepower) and with the mirrors removed. While Kawasaki bragged about being an airplane builder, Suzuki designed the busa in a wind tunnel. Of course they designed a very slippery bike that is pretty damn ugly! Peopl claiming the 2000 is restricted are looking for an excuse for Kawasaki. As much as I don't like the Busa, at least Suzuki didn't mess around. Honda beat the ZX11 with the XX by a mile an hour, Suzuki crushed the XX and ZX11 speeds. Kawasaki had the information on the busa for a year and rolled out a bike that din't beat the busa. Consequently we have as 12 owners got to listen to a bunch of crap about the busa being the king.
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beansbaxter
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posted December 22, 2002 12:27 AM
In regard to completely stock motorcycles, no mods...the 02 12 is 2mph faster in top speed then an 02 Busa.
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Andre Avigdor
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posted December 22, 2002 05:41 AM
"In regard to completely stock motorcycles, no mods...the 02 12 is 2mph faster in top speed then an 02 Busa. "
Yes, but without a doubt both these bikes are restricted...
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TurboBlew
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posted December 22, 2002 06:59 AM
The restrictions are a "non issue". The reason being, if your bike is restricted, its because you didnt pony up the $80 for a Bonneville box (ZX12) or a TRE (Busa)
Zhooligan is correct, at least partly so, about Kawi getting something to market. Whether it was a lapse in judgement or not, Kawi had plenty of time to build something superior. But pound for pound, both the Busa and 12 are so close stock its not even funny. The Busa owners celebrate their "Guiness World Record" status with a "fictonal" 194 mph top speed.
Yet, skilled riders in some of the best of conditions barely see 190mph?
And Doug Meyer riding a "bone" stock ZX12 to 192mph is believable, its just not able to be duplicated by your "average" rider.
I dont think there has ever been a legitimate attempt to take a Busa and 12 and wring them out "properly". Muzzys should have taken a Busa to Maxton, even if they kept if under wraps just to saw alittle face. Who knows what if would have run.
Regardless of a few mph the Busa may (or maynot) have, ultimately the 12 fit me better in riding style and comfort. The original $11,999 MSRP scared the hell out of me. I know some that paid $14k+ otd when it was said and done. $14k on a Busa at the time would have bought you: The Hayabusa, wheels, pipe, power commander, and you would have change leftover to put gas in it...lol
Im glad the 12 is here and parts are starting to develop for them. 
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ZHooligan
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posted December 22, 2002 11:04 AM
Very well said. I beleive if there is to be another quantum leap in top end as accomplished by the busa and 12 over the XX and ZX11 it require some really trick and probably ungly areodynamics. TRuthfully once you have gone 200 mph you can say I went that fast. The thrill to me is the balls out, push your butt back into the seat rush as the bike charges to the rev limiter.
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beansbaxter
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posted December 22, 2002 11:10 AM
quote:
I dont think there has ever been a legitimate attempt to take a Busa and 12 and wring them out "properly".
What does "wring them out properly" mean?
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TurboBlew
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posted December 22, 2002 11:20 AM
I should have clarified...wring = compare the 2 on an equal basis. Meaning same day, same conditions, same rider, etc.
Like I said, Doug Meyer has the skill and experience to get a stock 12 to go 192 mph.
Would be interesting for someone like Bergie, OldKawboy, VincentHill, or anyone else to have "bone stock" bikes available at an event like Maxton or 9/10ths type of venue and see what mph each could pull on the repective bikes.
Comparing what has been available in the past, its a great time to walk in to a dealership and be able to purchase a 160hp motorcycle for under $10k
quote:
What does "wring them out properly" mean?
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beansbaxter
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posted December 22, 2002 12:11 PM
Check out Mach 3...they take a stock 2000 ZX-12R and a stock 2000 Busa and wring them out properly.
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TurboBlew
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posted December 22, 2002 12:23 PM
Well actually the Busa in that video is a 1999 model...which Busa guys have cried "foul" because its been thoroughly abused and regeared for wheelies.
The editors can be considered "Kawasaki" sympathizers...lol
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beansbaxter
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posted December 22, 2002 12:27 PM
So you cant wheelie like that with stock gearing?
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beansbaxter
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posted December 22, 2002 12:28 PM
Wasnt Ricky Gadson at the Kawi booth signing posters at the Seattle show this month?
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havabusa12r
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posted December 22, 2002 03:12 PM
http://www.labusas.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=338552#338552
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turbojet
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posted January 02, 2003 07:33 PM
 Edited By: turbojet on 2 Jan 2003 19:34
Guys, let's be honest,Kawi screwed the pooch on this one. The bike did 197 and 203 in testing. Gadson did his thing, then the delay came. Kawi modded all the bikes in production and awaiting shipping . Easyrider has all the info. They are both great bikes. Kawi couldn't pony up when the chips were on the table.
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Andre Avigdor
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posted January 02, 2003 07:49 PM
Who is "Easyrider" and what is the "truth"... that's what I am looking for !
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ZHooligan
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posted January 02, 2003 09:16 PM
I don't understand the constant asking of this question. The owners of 2000 ZX12's have found more horsepower means more speed. It's simple the bike as built and shipped from Kawasaki didn't have enough horsepower or aerodynamics to go faster then it did. When the engine is pumped and things like the mirrors are removed it goes faster. So with that said yes Kawasaki limited it. They didn't give it enough power out of the box to beat the busa. And on almost every occasion with pretty much every magazine, Kawasaki did not ship a ringer for the test where as it is obvious that Suzuki did. As know one has been able to back up the performance of the first Busa's given for testing.
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TurboBlew
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posted January 03, 2003 04:03 AM
Uh, I remember when RG rode the pre-production 12 at the Prostar Finals in Gainesville.
I ran for the stands to watch like it was a top fuel pass...hehe.
For the ET and mph Rickey had at that event, even the staunchest of Suzuki supporters, had their mouths hung open in amazement! 
I dont think there were many (if any)
Busas running as fast at the time.
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psycho1122
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posted January 03, 2003 08:33 AM
All Kawi did during the delay was to Install a more restrictive exhaust can and overfill the engine w/ oil.
Dyno results show this.
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worm~hole
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posted January 03, 2003 02:20 PM
Edited By: worm~hole on 3 Jan 2003 14:29
...why does '12R vs busa' even matter?...I'd think the only riders who'd care about this debate are the ones who keep their bikes bone-stock...and how many of them can duplicate ALL of the results of the 'magazine tests'?
...and how many of us here and on the busa side have actually kept our bikes totally bone-stock?...not too many, I think...
...and even if we did the same-type mods on each type bike, ie. same manufacturer's pipes, filters, etc., there'd always be some kind of variable ie. weather, temp, rider's reactions, etc...and there's no absolute perfect way to make the test absolutely even...
...so it all comes down to bragging rights based on what was printed...as if some of us can even come close...no disrespect to the pros or the very, VERY serious enthusiasts out there, of course...
...none of us riders 'lost' anything here..well, ok, maybe the riders who bought early spent more than the rest of us...as much as I'm a die-hard Kawasaki fan, the only people who 'lost' were the KHI Motorcycle people...they shoulda' just walked quietly while carrying the big green stick... imho...but what the hell do I know, huh?
...as Fernando might say if he rode, "Its better to look good than to feel good...and honey, dat' Kawi looks good and feels good, but dat' busa feels good but it don' look too good..."
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ZHooligan
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posted January 03, 2003 02:30 PM
Worm..... I believe the saying is "you hit nail on the head"
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fastestr1
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posted January 05, 2003 12:50 AM
So what does the 01-02 limiter do, I am hiting 190 on the speedo(161 trap speed) in 6th on NOS at the track. The bike does not feel like it is slowing down but it is not going faster either. What would happen if I just unplug the speedo would it still be limited?
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TurboBlew
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posted January 05, 2003 01:24 AM
Fastestr1, there are two ways to "derestrict" the 01 and on Zx12s. One is to install a yellow box and "retard" the speedo.
The second option is to install a muzzy bonneville box.
Ive got an idea about installing a 2000 speedo on the "restricted" models to see if that would work as well. Hadnt got a chance to prove anything on that yet.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted January 05, 2003 06:08 AM
Has anyone found any proof that the 2000 zx12r was restricted?
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bigju
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posted January 05, 2003 11:01 AM
Like we talked about from the start of this 3 years ago when the rags began to bash the 12. Both bikes are so close it comes down to the rider in stock form. My thing is "Ride what you like and like what you ride". Even if the bike was restricted there are ways to get around it, if it wasn't there are ways to get more power. Me, I'm happy to have a 12R and I'm just enjoying the experience of ownership.
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fastestr1
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posted January 05, 2003 11:22 AM
I do like what i ride but I want to ride it faster 
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