01silverZX12
Parking Attendant
Posts: 7
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posted November 16, 2009 12:20 PM
Not that it is an issue to cut the USB BDM box to add the cable but couldn't you just use a male version of the 10-pin plug for the BDM to ECU cable and connect it to what is already there?
Also, to be clear, to flash the ECU on the bike, you don't need any additional power source correct? Just turn the key on -> flash, Turn off -> Turn On?
  
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted November 16, 2009 02:32 PM
you could bet a gender bender for that if you want to but marlens #1 pin and the pemicro #1 pin are not the same so the doubble socket you need will most likely not make the pins line up. u will have to be carefull and see if flipping the pemicro plug on bdm will make it happy.
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RidgeRacer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted November 16, 2009 05:40 PM
quote:
...Also, to be clear, to flash the ECU on the bike, you don't need any additional power source correct? Just turn the key on -> flash, Turn off -> Turn On?
To flash the ECU it needs normal ECU power at 10 ~ 16vdc which the wire harness provides to ECU when it is in the bike. However it also needs 11.8~12.2 vdc of programming voltage on VPP pin 29.
VPP Pin 29 in the wire harness connector has no wire connected.
There are two issues here for on bike flashing. 1) How to connect the VPP to the power source. 2) what to use for a VPP power source.
Connection:
The ZX-12 wire harness has an unused 8 pin connector. This is used at the factory to trim the individual cylinder fuel to balance the engine. This is essentially the Kawasaki equivalent of the YoshBox Plug. These seven wires are not used for anything which means the cleanest way to set this up would be to pull one of the Yosh wires out of its ecu connector hole and insert it into pin 29. Then you could use the Yoshplug as a flash voltage plug. The mating male shell for this plug is available from Kawasaki Parts.
VPP:
To come up with exactly 12V needed for VPP we have to choices; use an external battery powered supply or regulate the bike power to exactly 12V.
A simple external supply can be made from two 9V batteries and a simple regulator you can get at radio shack for a couple dollars. Stick it in a project box with a switch and you have a programming supply. Actually this can also double as a bench flash supply as the two 9V batteries have enough power to run the ECU during flashing as well as provide the VPP.
The other alternative is to build a little circuit with a resistor and a zener diode to regulate the bike power. The only draw back of this is that if the bike power drops below 12V sitting there with the key on and the engine off while your flashing it may not flash correctly. Of course the same thing could happen if your 9V batteries get run down.
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted November 16, 2009 06:04 PM
 Edited By: 2000redrocket on 17 Nov 2009 02:13
ridge when we used my 4 pin plug did that have the blue wire in it we used to jump over to the other plug for pin 29? . i the 4 pin had the 12- and the 12+ already stuffed in the plug. just get programing voltage over.just looked at it. looks like the light blue wire was the one we pulled out and used. all 12+ i think brown and 12- i think darker blue were already there in the diagnostic plug. but if the new change is the 8 pin cool.
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TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
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posted November 24, 2009 07:33 AM
Sorry to hear about the valve float, good luck Karl and keep us up to date.
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted November 24, 2009 11:09 PM
quote:
Sorry to hear about the valve float, good luck Karl and keep us up to date.
just did 3 heat cycles with refreshed motor & big cams, higher valve spring pressure.
to the dyno on fri or sat.
I am anxious to get into flashing but have this test, and then the trick head test (jan-feb) to accomplish first.
getting rid of the PC3r will be good, but i am also hoping be able to make all gears use the same map.
RR: is this possible??
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tshultz
Zone Head
Posts: 556
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posted November 29, 2009 02:15 PM
quote:
quote:
Sorry to hear about the valve float, good luck Karl and keep us up to date.
just did 3 heat cycles with refreshed motor & big cams, higher valve spring pressure.
to the dyno on fri or sat.
I am anxious to get into flashing but have this test, and then the trick head test (jan-feb) to accomplish first.
getting rid of the PC3r will be good, but i am also hoping be able to make all gears use the same map.
RR: is this possible??
How did the dyno go??
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted November 29, 2009 10:23 PM
quote:
quote:
quote:
Sorry to hear about the valve float, good luck Karl and keep us up to date.
just did 3 heat cycles with refreshed motor & big cams, higher valve spring pressure.
to the dyno on fri or sat.
I am anxious to get into flashing but have this test, and then the trick head test (jan-feb) to accomplish first.
getting rid of the PC3r will be good, but i am also hoping be able to make all gears use the same map.
RR: is this possible??
How did the dyno go??
not out of the woods yet.
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted December 06, 2009 09:51 PM
Karl, keep us updated.
I am interested if the Titanium valves are worth very much.
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted December 07, 2009 09:36 AM
quote:
Karl, keep us updated.
I am interested if the Titanium valves are worth very much.
no Ti valves for me; i just want to find out what my hp curve looks like above 12000.
this experiment is turning expensive.
two tear downs so far...
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted December 07, 2009 03:32 PM
Have you ever used Titanium valves?
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted December 07, 2009 09:58 PM
quote:
Have you ever used Titanium valves?
nope
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted December 08, 2009 07:15 AM
I know hardly anyone uses them, cost being the main factor I assume, but , I am wondering how much they are worth.
I use them in my daughter's car, and they hold up very well in it, but it only turns 8,000 rpm.
3.55 bore x 3inch stroke 1 7/8 intake valve size......, WOW
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TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
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posted December 08, 2009 07:54 AM
Q for Ridgeracer, Entropy, Jim, Doug, Vincent and others, is there anything in the ECU that you all have found that would make or limit HP past 11.8 or 12k? I do not know what Karl's latest power curve looks like up there, but there seems to be an inherent limiting factor where it tends to flat line then sign off (11.8-12). I have noticed that with Busa's as well. People will mod the ECU extend the rev limit run big cams with a big port job and timing, yet not gain much if any at all beyond the inherent limit. Even with nitrous and turbos there seems to be that sign off point. Could you all comment on which you think the limiting factor may be, ECU, Mechanical (example: rotating mass, stroke to bore ratio, valve train weight, ect), ability of the motor to breath properly, ignition/timing, ect?
Curious Karl if you still have the graphs to compare extending the RPM using ECU mod and Dave O's crystal mod, with regard to the point where your motor tends to sign off? If there is any difference it may be very subtle.
Curious if anyone (Mr. Meyer?) is running a stand alone engine management system and whether their motor signs off in the same spot?
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted December 08, 2009 09:45 AM
hey Gary,
the motor is not at all "signing off" at11.8/12k
it is more or less flat 235 10-11.5, goes up to 12.2-12.3,
After that i don't think i got a good test at 12.5 (dropped back to 235), perhaps valves just started floating at that point. At 13k hp went into the tank, bent intake valves two separate times.
I have had both the DaveO and the basic RRmod'd ECU's to 12.2-ish and the acted the same, hp still going up
The Dave+RRflash ECU is the one i am working with now.
It would be cool if there was a switch to flash, but i have my doubts.
Sooner or later that head/cam/CR combo is gonna run out of air, and i wanna find that point.
But heads are expensive to experiment with, yup.
I just finished putting my Miami motor together last night, and plan to have it at the dyno on Sat, but I will NOT be flirting with 13k.
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted December 08, 2009 10:08 AM
did the bigger cams impact hp any at the current rev limit?
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TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
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posted December 08, 2009 10:57 AM
Hmmm......... 235HP+ in a 2000rpm range is perty nice, should be very good for Miami!!
Yes sir playing with head work is very expensive..............Schnitz has good prices on 70# valve springs...............but that might soak up a little HP. I have them in my Busa, but thats just because that was the cam valve train stuff I had laying around.
Yep I would like a magic switch too!!!!!!!
Hope to see you running strong in a few weeks!!!
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted December 09, 2009 02:59 AM
that hp curve was the motor which i took out and rebuilt last week; had to make some compromises on this build bc my spare parts stock is getting low.
I'll be happy if this motor gets to low-mid 230's.
Fired up the Miami motor last night, no leaks or squeaks, will take it to the dyno Sat.
I hear you about seat pressure; I am running a new set of Carpenter 65# springs; talked to Bob and he said run int at 80# if I insist on getting 13000rpm
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TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
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posted December 09, 2009 07:14 PM
Don't work it too hard on the dyno, LOL
Wow, 80#'ers......................that would be great, if that HP can keep on the rise.
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tshultz
Zone Head
Posts: 556
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posted December 11, 2009 03:33 PM
did u get the miami motor on the dyno yet??
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted December 12, 2009 06:03 AM
quote:
did u get the miami motor on the dyno yet??
hey Todd,
i'm loading up in a 1/2 hour.
I don't expect great shakes outa this motor, it's got a "spare parts" head on it, not optimum.
Karl
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted December 12, 2009 08:04 AM
well if a new head would be mach1 i bet your "spare parts " head will still do mach .9 it will rip.
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted December 13, 2009 02:04 AM
no dyno results; dyno developed a glitch 
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tshultz
Zone Head
Posts: 556
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posted December 13, 2009 08:47 AM
quote:
no dyno results; dyno developed a glitch
WTF
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