entropy
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posted November 10, 2009 11:36 PM
 Edited By: entropy on 11 Nov 2009 07:38
Q for Ridgeracer
RR,
I got the box and i see an issue with the connectors as you said there would be.
do i need to open the box? Or did i get the wrong box?
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RidgeRacer
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posted November 11, 2009 06:33 AM
Edited By: RidgeRacer on 11 Nov 2009 14:34
Your looking at the wrong end of the cable. The gray connector on my cable connects inside the box as shown below. (thanks to redrocket for the photos)
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entropy
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posted November 11, 2009 07:15 AM
perfect, thanks!!!!!
Looks like Redrocket chewed his way into that box 
sharp teeth on that boy!
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KZScott
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posted November 11, 2009 08:53 AM
are you going to ditch the PC3r Karl?
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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entropy
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posted November 11, 2009 09:57 AM
quote:
are you going to ditch the PC3r Karl?
yup, that's the plan, that has always been the plan.
But...
The plan has always been to first sort out the hard parts, then get into flashing. I am about 2 years late...
Tim Chin, I know what you're thinking; "let's speed up this process and flash the hard parts", but this isn't about that.
My motor is now making good power, not cratering, so after uber-cam & then trick-head tests, i will concentrate on flashing. whew, long damn road.
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KZScott
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posted November 11, 2009 10:47 AM
so Jim has a stage 3 head design?
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
entropy
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Posts: 8671
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posted November 11, 2009 01:20 PM
quote:
so Jim has a stage 3 head design?
this is an experiment, not an established design.
if it doesn't work we'll deny we ever wasted money doing it
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entropy
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posted November 12, 2009 12:17 AM
another step fwd.
Thanks to redrocket's photos, i carefully Dremel-ed into the box and attached Marlin's cable.
one step at a time.
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RidgeRacer
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posted November 12, 2009 05:22 AM
Just out of curiosity on why the box has to be cut, is the problem that the box is sealed and doesn't unscrew in half or is it that the plug head is too tall? What does the other end of the stock plug look like?
I fold the cable over to add the strain relief. If I didn't do that do you think it would fit under the cover then?
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entropy
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posted November 12, 2009 05:57 AM
the box doesn't have screws.
It does have red & green blobs on the top, which almost look like i could drill them out and open it.
BUT
I figured they might be lil lights, so to be on the safe side, i just cut it open
yr plug could prob be made to fit, if we got the case open.
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2000redrocket
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posted November 13, 2009 04:18 PM
i opened the case with my teeth so the plug installed in the ecu port could stay on the ecu and i just plug in to the box when needed and then un plug when i am done. other wise pop the box apart every time. if i had to do that i would just left the board out.
ent , those blobs on the top area are led lights telling you it is connected to the laptop and the ecu. i am remembering the blue is computer got it and the yellow is when you turn the key on.
next step is you two (ent and tshults) need to do a little quick bike plug wire swap to flash on the bike. you can make something if you can get extra plugs to do it inside but out at the track you will not want to dig the ecu out. just do it in the bike. ridge has pictures of me doing the plug wire swap. also i found it handy to have a honda accord 1998 engine wire harness from old GFs car she got screwed into replacing the engine by lazy asshole shop.
i would do it for you ent but texas is a big drive. i will probally do todds. this winter.
remember all you guys reading this. rpm limit is now your decision,speed limiting killed the correct way,the newer ones with 1st gear retard can be put like older bikes. F the pc.
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2000redrocket
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posted November 13, 2009 04:29 PM
karl make sure you get #1 pin on the plug correct in the ecu.
i made notpads with the text you need to type for bin to mot conversion and a different notpad for mot to bin if you want to upload from the ecu to the laptop. it makes it fast. just go to notpad and copy the needed string then in your command prompt window with it saying
c:\pemicro\utilities then paste it there and hit enter.
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entropy
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posted November 14, 2009 05:19 AM
2000rr,
thanks much for the tips!!!
I have 2 more mechanical items on my test list (ubber cams & trick head), then i will dig into flashing.
I'm not at all sure about how you used the Honda harness, i guess pix would tell the story.
It is essential i be able to make fuel adjustments at the track w/o too much fuss, but i am sure you have that figured out.
thanks again,
karl
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2000redrocket
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posted November 14, 2009 07:16 AM
i use the wireing harness to have wires with the same ends our bikes use on all the plugs you will have to deal with for this adventure. i thought it would be cool to have the color wire i wanted anyway. just pop the plug apart and pull the wire out. i ordered the plug blank that goes on the bigger unused plug in the tail that you use for map switch. then the honda harness comes in handy again to just put any color you want into it to connect the two to shitch to map a. and the other plug i got is the 4 wire plug with the yellow or orangeish single wire for fi codes. i used that for the little box i made to allow with ridges direction and my brothers tech help on connecting the seperat components together.that box allows eracing the mem sector you are flashing with new map. it will not erace with out it turned on. ask me how i know.............. that is why i liked haveing the harness around other wise i would of had to splice wires instead of it looking factory
.i will get pictures of the stuff later.
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RidgeRacer
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posted November 14, 2009 07:32 AM
For those of you following along at home....
Not only do you need to cut a hole in the ECU and buy expensive custom interface hardware and software but to erase and flash it you also have to supply it with 12V programming voltage to an unstuffed pin on the wire harness connector.
And when I say 12V I mean 11.8 ~ 12.2 VDC. Not the typical automotive 12V from a battery that can be anything from 10 ~ 14V. Too low and it won't flash. Too high and it will damage the ECU.
Karl once you become familiar with the process I can set you up with an automation script. With the proper pre race setup I think we can get it down to a couple of mouse clicks. Also if you unified your cylinders then you would only have one map to adjust instead of four
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2000redrocket
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posted November 14, 2009 07:39 AM
Edited By: 2000redrocket on 14 Nov 2009 15:41
ridge what do you mean unify cylinders. and a one map adjust? that would be faster than doing 4 seperat maps.i think i know what the unify is. all changes the same to all cylinders.
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entropy
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posted November 15, 2009 12:33 AM
2000rr, you have this down to a science, i will be real interested in seeing the pix, thanks a million.
RR, that script sounds perfect, do all 4 cyl at the same time.
So, i'll need to unplug the 2 plugs in the ECU, connect it to programming voltage, connect the RR plug to PC/ECU and i'll be ready to flash?
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RidgeRacer
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posted November 15, 2009 06:57 AM
quote:
ridge what do you mean unify cylinders. and a one map adjust? that would be faster than doing 4 seperat maps.i think i know what the unify is. all changes the same to all cylinders.
The ECU software processes each cylinder fuel separately. Actually the functions are identical except that each one points to a different map. I can go into the software and make each one point to the same map, say cylinder 1. Actually the suzuki bikes have a map switch you can change that does this automatically. I don't think I ever checked the 12 to see if it had it. Either way we can set it up so there is only one map, not two.
The 4 ignition maps are all identical anyway. The fuel maps are a little different from each other. Actually the outside cylinders 1 and 4 are identical as are inside cylinders 2 and 3.
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RidgeRacer
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posted November 15, 2009 07:10 AM
Edited By: RidgeRacer on 15 Nov 2009 15:11
quote:
2000rr, you have this down to a science, i will be real interested in seeing the pix, thanks a million.
RR, that script sounds perfect, do all 4 cyl at the same time.
So, i'll need to unplug the 2 plugs in the ECU, connect it to programming voltage, connect the RR plug to PC/ECU and i'll be ready to flash?
Yes.
To 'Bench Flash' the ECU you only need the ribbon cable plugged into the plug I installed on the back of your ECU and these power connections.
(BTW it says 01-03 ZX-12 but the pins are the same for the 2000)
Again the voltage to pin 29 is critical. It must be within +/- 2% of 12VDC. You can't use a battery or wall transformer. Karl can you send me a picture of the box I sent you way back when. I made two types in the early days. One that took power off the bike harness and regulated it to exactly 12V and another battery powered box with a regulated 12V output. I don't remember which I sent you.
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2000redrocket
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posted November 15, 2009 07:41 AM
ridge i think they all are slightly different not sure though just what i sort of remember trying to make sure i make the same up/down changes even on all 4 cylinders.
here is a picture of my RR programing box for doing it on the bike.
here is the map a / b switch plug. i just unplug it for map a
here is pulling the plug apart. inside you need to be carefull and lift the little lock tabs that hold the pin in place. non of you need to worry cause all you will be doing with this is pulling the yellow inside out and inserting the male wire. it will not matter if you over doit lifting the lock tab on the doner plug to get its wire out.
picture of flashing power box off bike.
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entropy
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posted November 16, 2009 01:37 AM
Marlin,
my wife seems to have hiiden the camera, but you sent me a lil box with 2 x 9V batteries, a gnd wire and 2 wires coming off the positive side. Batteries were still good, but i replaced em anyway on Sun.
quote:
quote:
2000rr, you have this down to a science, i will be real interested in seeing the pix, thanks a million.
RR, that script sounds perfect, do all 4 cyl at the same time.
So, i'll need to unplug the 2 plugs in the ECU, connect it to programming voltage, connect the RR plug to PC/ECU and i'll be ready to flash?
Yes.
To 'Bench Flash' the ECU you only need the ribbon cable plugged into the plug I installed on the back of your ECU and these power connections.
(BTW it says 01-03 ZX-12 but the pins are the same for the 2000)
Again the voltage to pin 29 is critical. It must be within +/- 2% of 12VDC. You can't use a battery or wall transformer. Karl can you send me a picture of the box I sent you way back when. I made two types in the early days. One that took power off the bike harness and regulated it to exactly 12V and another battery powered box with a regulated 12V output. I don't remember which I sent you.
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entropy
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posted November 16, 2009 01:44 AM
rr2000,
thanks for the pix; that makes it somewhat clearer what you are doing.
I am sure i will have questions when i get to actually doing it.
On Sat, i got to 12,760 rpm but seemed to have floated the valves so hp dropped. Motor is out, nothing broken, but it'll need freshened seats, valves & springs before I resume testing.
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KZScott
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posted November 16, 2009 08:32 AM
how was HP till the valve float? 13500 pc map working ok?. are you running 1mm over SS valves w Ti retainers and busa buckets in this head?
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted November 16, 2009 10:38 AM
quote:
how was HP till the valve float? 13500 pc map working ok?. are you running 1mm over SS valves w Ti retainers and busa buckets in this head?
hp was close to the same as a prev test w/same set up.
OS ss valves w/Ti retainers, yup.
springs and vlaves have a lot of time on 'em.
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KZScott
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posted November 16, 2009 11:11 AM
i wonder how heavy that setup is compared to std sized valves and buckets? maybe its time for Ti valves if it happens again?
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
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