entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted November 02, 2009 07:20 AM
RR,
i sent emsail to:
info@mycompany.com
and it bounced?
is it OK to call you? best time??
Karl
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sami1
Parking Attendant
Posts: 22
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posted November 02, 2009 09:56 AM
Hi all,
Are these modifications available for -05 12? I have tried to find out and I think the answer is no, but I'm not sure.. I have readen quite many pages from bikeland.org and that other.. mmm.. activeboard.com.
Does someone of you know does the 16bit ecu work in -05 like plug and play style?
-Sami
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted November 02, 2009 10:04 AM
Marlin,
it was great to yak with you just now; mon o' man you have a ton of interesting prokects going on.
My ECU will go out to you tonight next day air - am.
Woo-HOO! DaveO modded ECU with RR's trickery on top of it. 13,000rpm, here I come!
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RidgeRacer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted November 02, 2009 12:54 PM
quote:
RR,
i sent emsail to:
info@mycompany.com
and it bounced?
is it OK to call you? best time??
Karl
My bad. It is a good thing I hack code better than I write html. The contact info is correct now.
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RidgeRacer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted November 02, 2009 01:02 PM
quote:
Hi all,
Are these modifications available for -05 12? I have tried to find out and I think the answer is no, but I'm not sure.. I have readen quite many pages from bikeland.org and that other.. mmm.. activeboard.com.
Does someone of you know does the 16bit ecu work in -05 like plug and play style?
-Sami
I've never seen an 05 ECU so all of what I'm about to say is an educated guess.
They switched from the 16bit to the 32bit in '05. I hear the ECU is still a Denso which if true means it is a better ECU to use for flashing as it would flash the same as the very popular '02-'07 Busa. In other words all you need is a $20 USB cable and the flashing software is free. It would still require someone to hack the maps etc so you had something to flash but the flash tools themselves would cost next to nothing compared to the $400 required now.
The only way to know for sure would be for me to get my hands on one I could tear apart. That seems less and less likely as the years roll by however
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted November 03, 2009 05:52 AM
Marlin, I emailed the address above and the one in the link
thanks
Scott
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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RidgeRacer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted November 03, 2009 08:28 AM
I looked at the code again in regards to absolute maximum RPM and think it may be higher than I previously stated.
There are two values generated in regards to engine speed. One is Crank_Period and the other is zRPM.
Crank_Period is the measured time interval between the pulses from the crank sensor tabs. It is the sum of the last 4 which represents 180 degrees of crank rotation. 15,000,000 / Crank_Period = RPM. Crank_Period is the unit used to measure the RPM Limiters. As this is a Period, not a rate the lower the number the faster the rotation. A value of 1000 would give a rev limit of 15,000 rpm.
In other words there is no real limit to what you can set Crank_Period based limits to.
zRPM is the value I spoke about earlier in the thread. True RPM = zRPM / 5.12. As this is stored as a 16bit number the max rpm is 65,536 / 5.12 or 12,800 rpm. Actually however the software limits the value to 12,700 rpm at the point when Crank_Period is converted into zRPM
zRPM is the value used for looking up values in Fuel and Ignition maps. Right now the Fuel and Ignition maps only extend to 12,000 rpm which simply means that above 12,000 rpm the maps return the same value as 12,000. i.e. the fuel and timing you get at 12,000 you get at 12,500 or even 13,000.
In other words at 13,000 rpm the map inputs would be restricted by software to 12,700 but it should make no difference as your maps plateaued long ago at 12,000 rpm.
Actually there is one change that I do make when I normally up the revs that would be different above 12,700.
The stock limit is 11,700. Notice that just after 11,600 is starts to retard the ignition. I'm guessing in anticipation of the rev limit. Normally on a bike if I raise the rev limit to say 12,500 I will change the last two rpm values to 12,400 and 12,600 so the ignition falls off approaching the limit as it does in stock form. On a bike with limits set above 12,700 I guess I would just set the 12,000 row equal to the 11,600 row and there would be no drop off. Of course it could be set to whatever value someone thought would work best. The only limitation is that above 12,700 to the rev limit it has to use the same value.
There may also be another practical limit to how high you can go. The faster the engine spins the less time the ECU has to crunch the numbers between injector / ignition pulses. There is an rpm at which the ECU will not be able to keep up. I have no idea what this number is for this ECU. It is a slower 16 bit unit. I have no idea what this limit is. Unfortunately I figured everyone lost interest in 12 flashing and I cannibalized by ECU bench test unit so I can simulate it on the bench to try and find out.
So the usual disclaimer... While I have extended dozens of zx-12 rev limits I have never gone higher than 12,700 so use at your own risk.
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted November 03, 2009 05:35 PM
Interesting.
Good info.
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted November 03, 2009 06:13 PM
Marlin, 12700 with your modified ign timing would be perfect for my application
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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sami1
Parking Attendant
Posts: 22
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posted November 04, 2009 01:05 PM
RR, I think I can confirm it's Denso...
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RidgeRacer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted November 04, 2009 07:02 PM
I don't suppose you have an extra one I can cut open? It would be destroyed by the time I was done with it.
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RidgeRacer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted November 04, 2009 07:07 PM
 Edited By: RidgeRacer on 5 Nov 2009 03:14
I just bought one on eBay for $100. So I guess in a week or two we will know.
Anyone have a source for a pdf shop manual for '04 / '05?
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted November 04, 2009 07:17 PM
we need to take up a collection. u should not to have to buy one ,my opinion.
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sami1
Parking Attendant
Posts: 22
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posted November 05, 2009 02:09 AM
Oh, you are fast.
I checked yesterday from ebay also, but cheapest '05 ecu what I found was ~700€ (in europe ebay). I also agree that you don't have to pay that for your own purse, but lets talk about that later by pm or e-mail.
Hmm... I'm not sure what did you mean about that 'pdf shop manual'. Maybe we have language barrier only. I have service manual for zx-12r (about 600 page pdf file), but I think that's not what you are meaning?
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted November 05, 2009 02:53 AM
i am thinking that is what he is talking about so he can get the pin out on the wires going to the ecu to trace them back.
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sami1
Parking Attendant
Posts: 22
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posted November 05, 2009 03:16 AM
OK, thanks for the clarification.
When I get home from here work, I will upload manual on the internet and send a link.
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RidgeRacer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted November 05, 2009 06:28 AM
Edited By: RidgeRacer on 5 Nov 2009 14:29
quote:
we need to take up a collection. u should not to have to buy one ,my opinion.
I appreciate the sentiment but I am in the ECU business now and would not of bought it if I did not think I could make some money off of it.
Sami1: By shop manual I mean the Service Manual sold by Kawasaki and used by dealers which it is what it sounds like you have. Here there are a number of companies like Haynes, Chilton, and Chlymers that sell 'Repair' Manuals but they are crap compared to the 'Shop' Manual
Also if these ECUs turn out to be as I suspect first generation 32bit units like the 02-07 Busa they will be much easier to flash but there is a catch. You can write ( reprogram ) them through the wire harness but you will not be able to read them without cutting them open.
With these units we cut open one example and read it then we can use that file to flash other units with the same part number through the wire harness. What I'm trying to say is when I successfully hack this US unit I'm not sure it is going to help you guys with EU 12s. Of course once I open this one up and locate exactly where the read connector is I could provide an adventurous person directions on how and where to cut a hole just big enough to read it out.
I also know a guy in Germany who might do it for you. Where are you at?
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sami1
Parking Attendant
Posts: 22
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posted November 05, 2009 10:48 AM
Okay, I found that same pdf already from the other board. Needs little copy-pasting and perhaps you don't understand the language, but somewhere* there is pdf...
LinK
My location is Finland.
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Mauser
Parking Attendant
Posts: 13
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posted November 05, 2009 11:05 AM
I have a manual for the later ZX's, I tried sending a PM but the system is dead @ the moment.
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sami1
Parking Attendant
Posts: 22
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posted November 05, 2009 11:23 AM
Later ZX's? If it's updated later than "Sixth Edition (1) : Jul. 7, 2005 (K)" I'm interested also.
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RidgeRacer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted November 05, 2009 11:25 AM
I got it thanks.
It is a good manual, in English, and text search-able. Some of the manuals are just photo scans of the pages which are better than nothing but this one has the words as text which you can search
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Mauser
Parking Attendant
Posts: 13
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posted November 05, 2009 12:46 PM
quote:
Later ZX's? If it's updated later than "Sixth Edition (1) : Jul. 7, 2005 (K)" I'm interested also.
Nope that's the latest version I have, it does mention the B6F model so can only guess there is no point in making anything later as nothing else changed ?.
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