ZHooligan
Moderator
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posted October 29, 2002 11:29 PM
Sure..... maybe we do need to give you some advice!
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To those who do not count their life in years, but in how life
has touched them in the past and how much it can hold in the
future; -- Youth is forever.
  
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TurboBlew
Moderator
BUSY DOING THE SCHIAVO
Posts: 4590
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posted October 30, 2002 03:26 AM
Jason, you must be a religious man! I wouldnt put that much faith in ANYTHING...lol 
Coitus interupus has worked fine for me all these years coupled with a condom...lol
quote:
condoms are easy,
get a girlfriend, make her take the pill, and hope to god that she doesnt cheat, and actually takes the pill. so far so good.
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EastBayDave
Needs a job
Posts: 2245
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posted October 30, 2002 06:09 AM
quote:
condoms are easy, get a girlfriend, make her take the pill, and hope to god that she doesnt cheat, and actually takes the pill. so far so good.
been there done that...now have 2 kids... 
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Enjoy the ride!
02' ZRX1200
00' ZX12R sold
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ninja12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted October 30, 2002 07:47 AM
Daddy, oops i mean jason. You are cruising for a bruising.
If you want a job done right do it yourself. That's what
2 kids and large sums of child support taught me.
I had a muzzy, then I rode a friends 12 with akrap and now my bike has one.
Muzzy make great power and sound bad azz, but the akrap is soooooooooo smooth you can ride twice as long with less fatigue, and half the noise.
I say if you are into the loud badass sound you can't beat Muzzy, especially when you consider price.
If you like the refined almost sneaky smooth sound, with great power
Akrapovic all the way.
I don't think there is much difference in power in the major pipes or we would see a trend at the race track.
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TBBT
Expert Class
Posts: 114
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posted October 30, 2002 11:30 AM
My vote goes for the Akra or the Yosh...
First and foremost, in my opinion, you should "do no harm" when doing mods to your bike...
It was my desire, when I bought my pipe, that the bike run as smoothly as it did before I made any modifications. I did not want the ride-ability to be negatively affected - no flat spots, no idle hunts etc...
I bought the Akra for my bike. I must say that I have been very pleased with it. The bike runs perfectly, just like it did when it was stock - no flat spots, no idles hunts, no runs, drips, or errors.
The fit and finish of the Akra is excellent and in my opinion there are no better looking pipes. There are some that may be equally as good looking in their way, but non look better.
Another benefit of the Akra is the sound/noise. The Akra is not obnoxiously loud (during normal riding), but still sounds good. In fact the pipe is not much louder than stock at normal highways speeds and when riding in town. When the bike gets above 6k rpm or so the pipe will speak up, and when it does it sounds good.
When it comes to performance numbers/dyno charts etc., it doesn't matter much in my opinion - especially if this bike is for riding on the streets. In my opinion all the pipes mentioned produce "roughly" the same performance gains. A few hp or ft-lbs difference here and there is insignificant in my mind. Comparisons between dyno numbers don't have much value. There are too many variables in such comparisons that are not controlled to produce results that have any more value then to give a "general idea" of how well a pipe performs or compares to other pipes.
I voted for the Yosh as well, keeping in mind of my above stated goal of doing no harm. I haven't heard anybody with a Yosh (or an Akra) complain about flat spots, or idle hunts or any other maladies for that matter. Performance gains on the Yosh have been comparable with the others (better in the lower rpm ranges - according to the owners) and all Yosh owners that I've heard from say that the fit an finish is great.
I'm a Muzzy fan. However, I've read lots of post with people frustrated about idle hunt, flat spots, melted fairings etc.
I've only seen one or two people complain about flats spots with the Hindle. I don't know if Hindle's have the idle hunt problems. I have seen some frustration in regards to fit and installation of the Hindles. Finish has been said to be good. Ultimately though, I find the Hindle pipes to be the least visually appealing of the bunch.
Money doesn't seem to be an issue with you. Considering this, I would go with what is arguably one of the best, if not the best maker out there - and that is Akrapovic. Keep in mind, when I say "best", I mean "best" for more reasons that raw hp/torque numbers - I mean all reasons - the whole package that constitute customer satisfaction.
I've seen bikes with Hindles, Muzzys etc..., and that being said, if I had to do it all over again, I would buy another Akrapovic.
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wannabe
Pro
Posts: 1931
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posted October 30, 2002 06:05 PM
Look what came in the mail today thanks to Doug at Spencer Cycle.
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wannabe
Pro
Posts: 1931
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posted October 30, 2002 06:08 PM
Look what else came with it....
Guess what I'm doing this weekend.
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ZHooligan
Moderator
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posted October 30, 2002 06:19 PM
Getting your legs waxed?
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To those who do not count their life in years, but in how life
has touched them in the past and how much it can hold in the
future; -- Youth is forever.
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jason370
Zone Head
Posts: 589
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posted October 31, 2002 01:46 AM
alright, its down to akra and hindle again, with akra out in front .
fit , finish, looks , sound, smoothness. the akra seems to be a guaranteed pleaser in all departments (except for price that is). i'm fairly certain that the sound and potential plastic melting risk of the muzzy system puts it 3 or 4 deep on the list. although vincent hill swears by hindle, unless the power gains are insanely more than the akra, i'm gonna have to go with the akra.
i.m fairly certain that any of these systems should be more than sufficient to crush my friends busa with a full micron. i prolly dont need to nitpick over a few hp one way or the other. of course 3 months ago i was saying how i would never mod this bike cause its already fast enough. so much for that.
thank you all for awesome posts and advice;adnd feel free to talk me out of buying a full akra, i wont be buying for about a month so i got plenty of time o rehash all of this.
jason
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'02 ZX12 black/gold
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted October 31, 2002 11:36 AM
Good for you Jason! The good thing about owing the Akra, is in a few months when it is all dark and discolored, you can always sell it "Used" for enough to buy a Step Hindle, Just Like I did! Everyone deserves to have owned at least one Akra! Once this is out of your system, you can then buy a Pipe with more bottom end (read 4-2-1) Quieter (Read 2 to 4 DB's Quieter) and seriously more power (Read 6 to 10 ft pounds of torque depending the rev range and 5 to 8 more HP, again the rev range)!
For the person that says do no harm, My "Stock" bike ran horrible off idle and the Idle was not "Perfect"! The Idle is still not perfect, but it is smoother everywhere else! Good Luck Jason, It is a Beautiful Pipe! If it finally gets to me that my Hindle does not look (Welding wise) as good as the Akra, I spoke to Hindle and for about $400 more dollars (Maybe even a little less), they will make a "TIG" Welded and Polished SS Pipe for me!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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wannabe
Pro
Posts: 1931
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posted October 31, 2002 11:47 AM
Vincent, I just wanted to say thank you for all your helpful posts. Your comments are the reason I went with the acra.
Jason, I hear you. I was in the exact same boat as you about a month ago. I kept telling myself that the bike was already too fast and that I wouldn't be doing any performance mods. Well, all that is out the door now.
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"There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; the rest are just games." - Ernest Hemingway
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jason370
Zone Head
Posts: 589
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posted October 31, 2002 01:27 PM
like i said vincent, i have a month or so to debate this over and over again. for now its akra or hindle. the only reason hindle is even in there is because you are so goddammned certain that hindle is the way to go; i just cant ignore that sort of sagely wisdom. tig welds on the hindle you say........hmmm. food for thought.
jason
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'02 ZX12 black/gold
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moodybluezx12r
Expert Class
Posts: 344
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posted October 31, 2002 01:57 PM
quote:
like i said vincent, i have a month or so to debate this over and over again. for now its akra or hindle. the only reason hindle is even in there is because you are so goddammned certain that hindle is the way to go; i just cant ignore that sort of sagely wisdom. tig welds on the hindle you say........hmmm. food for thought.
jason
all ways get what you like...akra is supposed to be it..but i wouldn't trade my hindle for the world....whatever you get you will enjoy the extra horses and torque...so you can eat that busa friend of yours for lunch
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Raleigh, NC
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted October 31, 2002 06:20 PM
Everyone here just gave me a thought! (I know just how dangerous that can be)! I am going to ask Hindle to Actually "TIG" Weld a polished Stainless Step Tube system! Then ask him to figure out just how much $$$$$$ he would need to sell them and make the profit he would need to make it worth his while! If it comes out as nice as an Akrapovic, for about $1,000 or $1,100. Maybe I will buy it and put it on my bike after I take a lot of Pics of it! Just think, A 4-2-1 pipe, more power (HP & Torque) Looks just as good and cost no more (Maybe a Little less) than an Akrapovic! I will state that to "Some" People, PRICE Really does not matter as much as "Quality"! I will let you know what he says!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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jason370
Zone Head
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posted October 31, 2002 08:05 PM
my thoughts exactly!
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'02 ZX12 black/gold
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
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posted November 01, 2002 10:59 AM
Properly installed, the Muzzy pipe is no more likely to melt the plastic than any other brand.
Doug
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It's not that I think you're dumb, it's just that so much of what you know isn't true....
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jason370
Zone Head
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posted November 01, 2002 01:00 PM
i only know what others have said about the muzzys melting thing. for all i know, they did a poor job of installing their system and meltdown occured; if so, they failed to mention that part. i have no personal experience with any exhaust installations of any kind. however, hearsay goes far around these parts.
jason
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'02 ZX12 black/gold
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DaveInDaytona
Pro
Posts: 1696
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posted November 01, 2002 01:45 PM
quote:
however, hearsay goes far around these parts.
Then you may want to consider how credible the positive hear say is that you're getting.
I said the same thing before that Doug just said so let's put this one to bed. It's said a picture is worth 1000 words, if that's true then here's a few thousand I just took of my bike to back up that statement.
Now, do I need to make a video of my bike idling smooth so we can get rid of that rumor ? (2002 only, previous years do the "rump, rump" thing)
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DaytonaSportbikes Forum
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RAC4IT
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted November 01, 2002 02:00 PM
One thing I've learned is that you can tell other people what you've done and what you've learned and offer advice but you can't make them listen! Dave, like YCIS there's too many people out there on the internet to try and save them all
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DaveInDaytona
Pro
Posts: 1696
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posted November 01, 2002 02:03 PM
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DaytonaSportbikes Forum
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jason370
Zone Head
Posts: 589
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posted November 01, 2002 02:04 PM
here's the thing dave,
mechanically speaking....at best i'm a hack. i can usually do the job, sometimes even do it well; but i just might screw it up a little too. now i'm about to blatantly guess here, but i'd guess that the guys that have melting, maybe sorta screwed up a little. this could very well be me. because i have heard nothing about any other manufacturers product melting fairings, i assume that the install is somehow easier to not screw up.
i'm all about easy, non screwupable installs. that being said, i am certain that any exhaust install can be screwed up, but maybe the other products can be slightly off kilter and still manage to not melt plastic?
ok on a scale of 1-10, 10 being retarded and dropped on head at birth multiple times; how dumb does this all sound?
jason
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'02 ZX12 black/gold
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saltire
Parking Attendant
Posts: 24
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posted November 01, 2002 02:15 PM
LASER HOT CAM system melts the fairing.
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DaveInDaytona
Pro
Posts: 1696
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posted November 01, 2002 02:32 PM
I'm probably considered by some to be a hack too, but if you ask anyone that knows me they'll probably tell you I'm also a picky bastard so maybe that makes up for it. If it's not exactly right to me then I'll look at it until I can see a way to make it right.
The install of this pipe is probably as complicated as any other one. I have a Yosh on my other bike (old Ninja) and recently helped put an Akro on a Busa. Getting the parts to fit and also making sure you put your bike back together properly helps too. There is some play in the plastics that could make a difference.
To be honest it makes no difference to me which pipe you buy as long as you're happy with it. What does matter to me is seeing things I know first hand aren't true being spouted as fact, especially when it puts people I know as reputable builders in a bad light. I'm not trying to take away from anyone else, I just will tell you what I know and let you decide. These guys will bend over backwards to help you out and make sure you're 100% happy with their product because they know it's the right thing to do. I know stories of that happening and even though I consider myself a pretty nice guy I wouldn't do what they have done to make things right. Stand up guys and a stand up line of products, good enough to put their name on it  . That's the kind of thing that separates all the options for me and tells me who I want to deal with.
Oh, I was dropped on my head pretty hard back in March, it didn't effect my dumbness factor........... or did it ??
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DaytonaSportbikes Forum
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TurboBlew
Moderator
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posted November 01, 2002 07:49 PM
The so called "idle" issue with the Muzzys is NOT a characteristic of the Muzzy pipe. Because I have heard other bikes do the exact same thing with other manfacturers pipes, only the sound is more muffled.
For example, a Two Bros pipe on a 954 goes "rumpty rump rumpty rump" at idle. Also a Zx9 with a Micron does the same thing. An F4i is the same too.
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ZHooligan
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posted November 03, 2002 07:53 PM
When talking about the 2000 ZX12 and the Muzzy pipe the Collector not the mid pipe touches the fairing. There is absolutely no adjustment on the Muzzy header pipe. It is a solid welded setup. The midpipe can be rotated and therefore effect the location in relationship to the fairing. But the actual header, 4 into 1 collector is a single wellded non adjustable piece. And it melts the fairing on the 00. I don't care how picking one is, it does. If it did fit perfect I would assume that MUZZY would not have bothered including the heat shield material that came with the pipe. With that said I got what I paid for. I bought a high performance oversized exhaust system. Larger than stock to put in the same space. And as for detail and doing things right, I doubt there is a more anal person on this board when it comes to doing things to perfection.
As for the idle hunt, on the 00 and 01, the Muzzy pipe causes the bike to hunt. If that isn't the case, then there has been an aweful lot of posts, information and mapping done by many people for nothing.
____________
To those who do not count their life in years, but in how life
has touched them in the past and how much it can hold in the
future; -- Youth is forever.
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