jason370
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posted October 09, 2002 09:37 PM
ok, its time to get a can already. which one should i get?
i'm thinking akro, hindle, or muzzys. could some of the bike guru's please comment on the pros and cons of these systems, and if you think that there is a better product, i would love to hear what you have to say.
thanks,
jason
   
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TurboBlew
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posted October 10, 2002 04:39 AM
Well look at it like this.
A full Ti pipe can be had for about $950 or so. Weighs about 7 lbs for the full system.
Or you can get a stainless system for significantly less money and will weigh 12lbs or so. If I had to pick one, Id say the Hindle looks like the best bang for the $$ at $750 or so.
The Akros are nice too but cost more.
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DaveInDaytona
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posted October 10, 2002 05:27 AM
This topic has been tossed around over and over and a lot of it comes down to personal opinion. If I was going to buy one today it would be the same one I have on my bike now, Muzzys.
Why ? Well the bang for the buck TB mentioned can be had for over $100 less than that number with a SS pipe/can from Muzzys if the pricing is a big deal to you. There's little disputing that their pipe is one of the top performers when bolted on a bike. The differences may lie outside the product itself so that's something to look at too. The support has been nothing less than excellent for questions/issues I've had with their products. Your dealing directly with the people that develop, use, and sell the products which I like a lot. I actually call and write to Muzzys instead of throwing all my stuff in web boards all over and the one on one response is also something I like. If you do want an open forum support they are here and on other boards to do that too. That access doesn't happen with any other product I am aware of.
I told you it may come down to personal opinion, if you're asking mine....
Dave
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ZHooligan
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posted October 10, 2002 07:40 AM
Hanging in the shop you will find my Ti Muzzy system and a Hindle Race system. On my motorcycle you will find a TiForce. I'll let you draw your own conclusion.
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DaveInDaytona
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posted October 10, 2002 08:17 AM
I conclude you have a pipe addiction and way too much money to spend on toys.
Or you need two more bikes.
Am I close ?
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VincentHill
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posted October 10, 2002 08:23 AM
Jason, I state again that stating "Can" indicates Muffler / slip-on only! If you read my post on Labusas, toy would see Akra, Hindle, Muzzys and TiForce all mentioned and why! I have not ever had a problem with Muzzys that was not resolved! They also support us in ways no one else has! Hindle is just starting to respond! TiForce is sold by Orient Express, I do not know if that is good or bad! I know that some people complain about the Muzzy being loud and burning the fairing! The Akra is a real piece of work and that is what you pay for and it is "NOT" a 4-2-1, the Muzzy, TiForce & Hindle are! The "originator" of the TiForce now has another company and they now make a pipe! The TiForce has the longest "2" part of the 4-2-1 which should give it the biggest Bottom end and Torque! The Hindle has the Shortest "2" part which should give it the most Peak Hp! The Muzzy is in the Middle! Maybe a little more bottom end than Hindle and maybe a little less than TiForce! TiForce 7+ pounds Hindle 9.0 pounds! I do not know the weight of the Muzzy stainless or Ti! I would prefer Stainless for maintenance and durability!
Saying all of this, what year is your bike! What type of riding do you plan to do! Street riding where "Noise" is a factor would make the TiForce a choice! Where noise is not a factor, maybe Muzzy! if Top end and quiet are necessary, the Hindle, provided your bike is not an 02! (In a few months, their newest 02 pipe and Dynojet will be available! Right now, you are out of luck) I sold my Akra for the Hindle! I have been offered a TiForce for "FREE" and have not taken up the offer!
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TurboBlew
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posted October 10, 2002 08:41 AM
Zhool, you interested in selling your Muzzy ti? 
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TurboBlew
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posted October 10, 2002 08:45 AM
I have a Muzzy too and I really like their pipes and products. Only drawback to the Muzzys is sound!
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jason370
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posted October 10, 2002 09:51 AM
 Edited By: jason370 on 10 Oct 2002 10:57
vincent,
mainly street riding here, long high speed sweepers, straights and some twisties as well. i do prefer a quieter pipe. and yes you are correct, i do not just want a can, i probably want a full system. how much difference is there between a can and full system?
oh yeah, i have an '02 zx12, and and this point money is no object. i am not going to quibble over a couple hundred bucks when years of riding speed and enjoyment are the sacrifice.
thanks
jason
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VincentHill
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posted October 10, 2002 05:24 PM
To me that leaves the TiForce (Today) in first (Map and midrange available today) If you are buying in November or December, the Hindle! Even quieter than the Akra, A new revision just made to give a little "More" midrange and the Maps "WILL" then be available and more top end HP than any of them! The Muzzy is a few "2" DB louder than the Akra and "4" Db louder than the Hindle! I have never had a sound meter on the TiForce! They are all inside of 2 pounds of each other with the Hindle at 9.0 pounds and the TiForce about 7.5 Pounds. Dave in Daytona seems to have "No" fittment problems with the Pipe and Fairing, which either mean Kawasaki has lose tolorances oe the Muzzy is off! There are more things on the bike to be off than the pipe, so my bet is the bikes! Saying this, the others seem to avoid this problem how ever the fairing fits! I Like the newer style "Rolled tips" on the end can and the last Muzzy I saw still has the flat tip! (I know why! He uses a full float muffler shell which keeps the muffler from receiving stresses and cracking! The tip needs to be smooth to slip the outter shell over)!
The slip-on only makes a few 3 to 5 hp more at best! The only thing you get is more noise and a little less weight!
I have really tried to be neutral because I personally favor the Hindle! You have no idea of how hard it was to sell my Akra! Being a gearhead and a Perfection freek, it was most satisfying to look at the welds and workmanship put into that pipe! I will "Never" Get over it! To Paraphrase a TV Commercial! "Anything else is Un-Civilized"!! Originally I was looking into a Micron Serpant Bent Pipe! Never knew enough to want one!
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ZHooligan
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posted October 10, 2002 05:27 PM
Edited By: ZHooligan on 10 Oct 2002 18:40
Actually the thought has occured to me to sell, but I have been holding onto it to give to a friend of mine who also has a 12.
Vincent is right about Muzzy's service. It is pretty good, and parts for the pipes are available. I can't complain about the other pipe manufactures either. I did order a repack for my Muzzy about two months ago (still waiting) and sent a subsequent E-mail asking about it and have heard nothing back. The last time it took about a week to get. I am kind of on the every other transaction works mode with MUZZY for some damn reason?!
I can tell you that the MUZZY requires either melting the fairing or trimming it on the 00. The TiForce and Hindle don't. I am not certain about the idle issue on the 02 but the idle hunts on the MUZZY on my 00) and the TiForce doesn't. That is really a preference issue. The3 hunt is kind of cool at times. The TiForce and Akro pipes are bad ass looking, where as the MUZZY is funtional. The long and the short I can say that all of the pipes make pretty much the same top end horsepower and get there a little differently.
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jason370
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posted October 10, 2002 05:37 PM
vincent,
maybe i missed it, but what is it about the hindle that made you toss the akra?
btw, low end is definitely more important than high end to me.
jason
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DaveInDaytona
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posted October 10, 2002 06:19 PM
Edited By: DaveInDaytona on 10 Oct 2002 19:20
quote:
Dave in Daytona seems to have "No" fittment problems with the Pipe and Fairing, which either mean Kawasaki has lose tolorances oe the Muzzy is off! There are more things on the bike to be off than the pipe, so my bet is the bikes! Saying this, the others seem to avoid this problem how ever the fairing fits!
You left out the part that I may be really picky and get it on there "just right".
quote:
I can tell you that the MUZZY requires either melting the fairing or trimming it on the 00. The TiForce and Hindle don't. I am not certain about the idle issue on the 02 but the idle hunts on the MUZZY on my 00) and the TiForce doesn't. That is really a preference issue. The3 hunt is kind of cool at times.
I didn't have any melting on my 00 with the Muzzy pipe, but I've seen other ones that did. The '02 doesn't idle hunt, ask anyone that's heard mine. My '00 did and it is kind of cool at times.
Best idle hunt comment I've heard.....dude, that bike sounds like it's got a cam in it. My reply..... dude (mocking tone), a cam in it ? I've got two cams in it !
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ZHooligan
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posted October 10, 2002 08:42 PM
Well it's good to see you didn't have a fit problem with your fairing. I can say that Muzzy pipe does melt the fairing on the 4 12's that Swft, Necro and I own. And I can also say that every other 12 that we have seen on our dyno has experienced the same issue. We tend to look and point these things out so we don't get to buy a fairing for an upset customer.
As for the 02 I can't comment as I have not actually seen one in the shop nor have I actually seen one with a pipe. I would assume that with the additional time for R&R the pipe clearance issue has been worked out. And as I said in my previous post, the hunt is kind of cool.
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DaveInDaytona
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posted October 10, 2002 08:46 PM
My '02 has the '00 pipe on it. I was worried about the melting because that pipe is not supposed to fit as well on that bike. I wrapped the head pipe up to where it comes out of the fairing. No melting yet.
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VincentHill
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posted October 11, 2002 01:34 PM
quote:
vincent,
maybe i missed it, but what is it about the hindle that made you toss the akra?
btw, low end is definitely more important than high end to me.
jason
I did not "Toss" the Akra until "After" I tested the Hindle! I made 6 more Ft Pounds of Torque and 10 more Hp on top end! At 3 to 5K, I gained 10 Ft pounds of Torque and 5 Hp. The Hindle was also 2 Db's quieter than the CF Akra! Saying all of this, it was "Still" hard to give up the Akra! (Name & beauty it "REALLY" has both of them in spades!) Never look at one up close, because everyone elses pipe looks like it came off of an Russian industrial assemble line when the truth is, the Akra is made closer to the Soviet Union than any other Pipe! Once they trained those farmers to weld, they are the class of the World in it!
Right now, I have so much low end power that i cannot go across a Groved (Lanes made by heavy trucks being crossed at 90 degrees) with any power on the bike! the front end just skips from one rise to the next! add more power and the front heads straight up!I even like the "Look" of the Hindle Muffler better than the Akra and the system fits "Tighter" than the Akra! I just cannot get used to the "Mig" welding after seeing the Tig welding!
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jason370
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posted October 11, 2002 05:14 PM
ok vince let me get this straight:
in your opinion, which seems to be widely held as a valuable one, the hindle:
a) looks better than the akra
b) fits tighter than the akra
c) is flat out faster all over the powerband than the akra
d) cost less than the akra
E) the welds just arent as professionally done as the akra
did i get it all right? cause if i did then the hindle is the hands down winner.
jason
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SpencerCyclecom
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posted October 13, 2002 07:57 PM
Akrapovic....1 word..1 pipe....1 installation and ONLY 1 purchase!
There is 1 other thing.... more #1 finishes and plate holders run these.
call me if you are interested in 1
Doug
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VincentHill
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posted October 13, 2002 08:12 PM
Edited By: VincentHill on 13 Oct 2002 21:23
Close! The Muffler on the Hindle I like better than the akra or the Muzzy! The rest of the Akra has no equal in welding! It is pure art work! The Akra you have "0" Fittment issues! The Hindle "S" Bend is a Bitch because the clearance is "0" and if the slightest bit out of round with each other it is hard to fit! If it had loser clearance, it would be easier to fit them together!
The Akra is a 4-1 pipe! Not having the "2" part causes it to lose on the bottom! Look at the Kawasaki World Superbikes! The Akra there has a 4-2-2 system (2 exits out of the muffler! They did this to get more bottom end out of a 4 cylinder Need I say more! I sold the (Used) Akra for almost the same price I paid for the (New) Hindle!
Not in the same class, but I had to say it! Used Harleys sell for more than New ZX12R!
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