posted September 13, 2002 07:01 AM
Dyno graph interpatation! Tech question for the techs; looking for input.
-all things being equal, when looking at the graph and when the SMOOTHING feature is set at one, it enhances the input and one can see the power spikes. (when people post they should say at what smoothing the graph was at time of printing. At smoothing 5 it is very averaged and will show lower peak than at smoothing 1 )
Anyway, I have noticed that with my runs after 8500 rpm the line starts getting progressively less smooth.
Question people of this forum-what could be some of the causes of this.
I'll list bad chain for starters, would like to see others ideas for input.
posted September 16, 2002 06:47 AM
TOO LEAN. How does the curve travel after 8500, i.e. up, down, flat etc.?
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You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
Needs a life
Full throttle!
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posted September 16, 2002 09:00 AM
If the line is very spikey, check your chain for tightness, and if it's lubed or dry.
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82 Gpz750, 84 Ninja 900, 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy Big Bore Kit), *another* 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy custom stroke crank 1341cc motor), 2004 ZZR1200, 2005 ZX10R, 2007 ZX14, 2008 Concours 14, 2014 Versys 650, 2014 Yamaha WR450F, 2015 Ninja H2
posted September 17, 2002 08:57 PM
I was hoping for more than lean,slipping tire or chain. I was thinking maybe not enough air though the snorkel. I figured with all the dyno runs out there, someone has played with running without the snorkle hooked up, or.....IMHO the 02 is pulling more power because maybe the bigger snorkle area is putting less of a restriction on the engine.
psycho1122, what are the settings on the dyno run. SAE, smoothing level?
Just so you know, my stock Zx-12r pulled 209.8 hp at redline no-less!!! It was on a 4-5 gear shift. It was a nice spike! lol :-)
posted September 17, 2002 11:12 PM
Edited By: ZHooligan on 18 Sep 2002 08:25
You can line up 25 dynos in a row and get 25 different readings. And yes they do correct for sea level and with all that said results still vary. The dyno is at best a good measuring tool of the before and after or for comparing two machines. Assuming the two are placed on the same dyno.
I can also tell you that no one has ever accused Performance Dyno (the Dyno business Swft, Mike Velasco and I own) of posting happy or exagerated numbers. We also have had the opportunity to dyno more 12's then just about anyone else. Let alone the other bezillion models and makes out there. We have a Dynojet 250 with the most current software available, and have spent over thirty thousand dollars on equipment and training. Along with our own experience we have as our partner in Mike Velasco, the wrench and tuner for National and World champions and a guy who still builds engines and tunes for factory teams at this moment. Engines built this year, in our shop, tuned and mapped on our dyno hold the current records at Road America, Pocano, Portland, Seattle and Spokane. "Edit time! thought came to me in the middle of the night that Joohn Dugan with an EDR built GSXR1000 recently set a new Seattle record. Didn't want to rain on John he is a good guy. end of edit!" Between us we have well over a dozen of our own bikes as well as the ever increasing number of customer's bikes that we have garnered untold amounts of information and experience from. So when Swft throws a comment out about your chain, do yourself a favor and check it.
And as an aside along with all of the stuff I said above, outside of our dyno booth hangs pretty much every frigging pipe built for a 12, Hindle made one and gave it to us so we would include his in our testing, and we have a barrel of just about every race fuel (Nutec 4 and 5, VP (5 different grades), IRC, Trick, Sunoco, Power Mist, ELF, Unocal, Nitro Methane, and a few others on the market. We have played with straight race gas and 50/50 race with pump etc. So it should be reasonabley clear that we take this stuff pretty serious and have spent some serious time and resources learning our trade.
It is funny how guys with 12s and busas expect 50 horsepower increase and a guy with a YZ 250F is thrilled to death with three horsepower and a guy with a harley or VTX gets excited over 6 to 10 horses.
I am not trying to piss anybody off with this post, but I don't want somebody to go out and spend some serious cash on mods for their bike, get the results that should be expected and then be disapointed because they read on the board or internet numbers that are out of the norm.
____________
To those who do not count their life in years, but in how life
has touched them in the past and how much it can hold in the
future; -- Youth is forever.
posted September 17, 2002 11:29 PM
hey zhool, what was the general consensus on fuel in terms of power increases (ignoring the fact that high octane is wasted on most bikes)? in perticular i'm durious as to whether u got good results with VP-MR #3?
posted September 18, 2002 06:23 AM
I used the MJP Engine Development Dyno(mjpeng.dk) w/ the latest software and a 4 gas analyzer. This Dyno measures power w/ the BREAK ON! Big, BIG benefits when it comes to geting proper A/F ratio for max power at all throttle positions & RPM's.
DJ250 is good, but not this good.
This shop had a 250 and w/ the same race and road bikes, the MJP was within 1 h.p. of the 250 (Both have 700 lb. drum's), both were very close to each other.
I Agree w/ Z re; Dyno's vary.....So my gains should reveal the true story vs. Peak #'s.
____________
You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
posted September 18, 2002 06:50 AM
"Corrected to Sea Level" is only if the 'STD' mode is used. Use SAE and you are running for bike in Detroit lol. Also for the longest time, Dynojet had the wrong correction factor when using STD. The numbers for once were actually to low. They where out by ~ 2%. Or for a fast and dirty correction, Take any SAE and times it by ~1.045.
NOTE: If you go to the DynoJet site and download Version 7.0.7.8, it will have the correct correction factors.
I guess what someone should try is use a water barometer and stuff the hose in the airbox and see how much of a pressure drop is in the airbox at full tilt RPM with the 00-01 & 02 models. Swft. Looks like you have the toys - i mean tools.
Anyway, I'll think some more on this.
On a side note, has anyone taken and 01 and run it against an 02 for top speed. Both unrestricted, but otherwise stock.
It would be nice to see which one is truly more aerodynamic.
Needs a life
Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
posted September 18, 2002 06:53 AM
Edited By: swft on 18 Sep 2002 07:54
It's a thought! And btw, I don't know if anyone is aware that fully equipped DJ250s have a torque control module, allows real time measurement of engine torque, using the dyno brake.
posted September 18, 2002 07:29 AM
Edited By: psycho1122 on 18 Sep 2002 08:30
( mjpeng.dk )... MJP 2000 Dyno
____________
You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
posted September 18, 2002 07:33 AM
Freek... I will nose around for the answer to your question. What I can say is that for the most part (99.9%) on stock bikes 50/50 ratios seem to work better then 100% race fuel. NUTEC has been the consistant winner on the ZX12, GSXR1000, R1, GSXR750, R^, ZX6R and the RC51. The 50/50 mix has won every time on the YZ250F and 426F as well as the CR450 Honda.
For the most part I run race fuel in my 12 to eliminate denotation which is usually the destroyer of high compression modied bikes. A lot of guys go to the airport and buy av gas but the av gas doesn't have the additives the race fuels have.
____________
To those who do not count their life in years, but in how life
has touched them in the past and how much it can hold in the
future; -- Youth is forever.
posted September 18, 2002 10:09 AM
dont worry about diggin fer it zhool, was jsut curious if u had experience with that particular fuel. reason i ask is cause sport rider (yeah, i dont trust a word they say either) did a fuel test a couple years back and got little to no gain with most the fuels they tried, including oxygenated ones; maybe 1. horse max, & usually a dip in midrange. but that #3 fuel saw a whopping 5hp gain at peak, and what looks like close to that at the bottom end, with maybe 2hp all thru the midrange. very impressive. oddly the #4 fuel (#3's predecessor) saw pretty much no gains. oh yeah, the #3 stuff? $25 a gallon.
posted September 18, 2002 02:30 PM
The #3 stuff is not readily available. VP can make us some if we really want it. I saw the same test and have been skeptical about fuels for horsewpower. The NUTEC is the first fuel I have seen that does consistantly make horsepower. My primary reason for using race fuel is to prevent detenation and for consistancy. I also like the ash on the pipe! But with that said when I go out on the hunt or with my buddies to get a little crazy, the vacuum pump comes out to remove my VP Super (102 octane) unleaded and in goes the Nutec.
The nice thing about the 50/50 ratio of Nutec and super unleaded, it gives increased horsepower without having to remap.
____________
To those who do not count their life in years, but in how life
has touched them in the past and how much it can hold in the
future; -- Youth is forever.
posted September 18, 2002 11:48 PM
i assume the nutec is gettin power cause of high oxygen content too right? & how come u use the high octane stuff on yer bike anyhow? do u got like 14:1 compression? my understanding has always been that higher than required octane lowers power if anything, & definitely doesnt make any more. & the gas u use (CP & nutec), r they the leaded varieties?
posted September 19, 2002 06:43 AM
Actually, Nutec and VP fuels get the extra power by having more BTU's per pound than "regular" Reformulated fuels. Otherwise know as Oxygenated fuels. These fuels while burning cleaner, do not release as much heat.
Nutec and VP - (i know more about vp fuels) have a much faster distillation curve and therefore add a little more "cooling" effect to the incoming air charge. Remember every 11' F increases potentially 1 % power. When you have a engine set up running on a fuel type and then change to another, most times to get full advantage of the fuel, requires a jet or fuel map change. Usually it has to be leaned some. On the Zx-11 when I was running some VP MR-6, I found a full load was way rich. It ended up that 1-2 liters per 20 was about right. The throttle response was very much improved and the ass-o-meter says it was good for 5 or more hp's-especially on top.
The best part was the beautiful perfume coming out of the pipe. It would also gas the rides behind, literally and figuretively speaking. I would humblely say that if you wishing to see a nice all time improvement in performance, try 87 fortified with your nutec or VP (unleaded for the street) at about 10-20%. Dial in a map and enjoy. If you are running non stock compression, then of course you will have to use a higher octane base gas.
Where I work, we will be moving into a new facility in the next 2 months and will be upgrading our existing dyno to a "performance tuning center" One of only three in BC.
We will also be capable of creating maps. It will be interesting to see the difference between the map I have built on the road compared to what the computer will build.
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posted September 13, 2002 07:01 AM
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