FinalVelocity
Expert Class
Posts: 150
|
posted September 12, 2002 10:29 AM
Network Protocols on the 12R
Anybody know what protocols exist on the network on the 12's? What kind of ECU, what protocols does the network talk on the 12 etc?
Off-topic: Also, anybody know where I can get information on what kinds of protocols exist on other fuel-injected Jap bikes?
Thanks.
  
|
jonwright
Needs a job
Posts: 2416
|
posted September 12, 2002 12:25 PM
It uses an old form of SP/X. It logs on to a pseudo UDP port for header information.
Trailer records for the maps are sent via Fibre Channel protocol when requested by the SCSI reservation stack.
In other words, I have no friggin' clue.
Smart-assed in Little Rock,
jonathan
|
swft
Needs a life
Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
|
posted September 12, 2002 02:51 PM
Several probs. Without knowing how long the bit length of the word is, or the baud rate, there's no way to properly decode anything from a diag port. I'm not entirely certain that Kaw has the capability of programming the ECUs while they are sitting on the bike. Ie; all the pins on the connectors for the ECU are accounted for. So it may be a case of a particular PROM chip being inserted before the ECU is potted.
|
deathpulse
Pro
Posts: 1688
|
posted September 12, 2002 03:15 PM
Great. Thats JUST what I need. My motorcycle using a standard TCP/IP stack. First, my home computer can get 0wn3d, now my motorcycle can get h@x0rd too. Maybe they will classify the zx-12 as a super-computer?
|
Megabyte
Pro
Posts: 1047
|
posted September 12, 2002 03:21 PM
Just be glad it can't download a virus ;)
Give me it's IP address, and I'll ping it. Better yet, I'll do a trace route to it, and then I'll know where you live 
quote:
Great. Thats JUST what I need. My motorcycle using a standard TCP/IP stack. First, my home computer can get 0wn3d, now my motorcycle can get h@x0rd too. Maybe they will classify the zx-12 as a super-computer?
____________
We First make our habits and then our habits make us.
|
deathpulse
Pro
Posts: 1688
|
posted September 12, 2002 03:28 PM
I KNEW IT! next we'll see cops in helecopters with ping and tracroute utilities - to tell how fast we are going!! CONSPIRICY!!!!!! (man my spelling sux)
|
swft
Needs a life
Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
|
posted September 12, 2002 03:54 PM
Hey, just be glad it's TCP/IP, and not NetBEUI/Appletalk/Novell! Those are all broadcast protocols. The cops gotta ping ya to figure out how fast you are going! With broadcast, it's more a case of "Here I come/Here I am/There I go"...
|
Megabyte
Pro
Posts: 1047
|
posted September 12, 2002 06:12 PM
Put it behind a firewall
Nat the address, block pings, disable the guest account, B node broadcast, & SAPS, rename the administrator account, limit the login hours, enable security logging, or, better yet, LOCK It in a room, and disconnect it from the network, that's what Microsoft calls C-3 security.
quote:
Hey, just be glad it's TCP/IP, and not NetBEUI/Appletalk/Novell! Those are all broadcast protocols. The cops gotta ping ya to figure out how fast you are going! With broadcast, it's more a case of "Here I come/Here I am/There I go"...
____________
We First make our habits and then our habits make us.
|
deathpulse
Pro
Posts: 1688
|
posted September 13, 2002 05:26 AM
ROFL - I don't think you get C-3 untill ya pull out the network card and the floppy too - does that mean we have to remove the throttle?
|
swft
Needs a life
Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
|
posted September 13, 2002 05:56 AM
Nah, if you equate the license plate as the MAC address, yer good to go by yanking the plate. Taking it off the network, I've done that - one of my 12's only sees the racetrack, never the street anymore.
|
FinalVelocity
Expert Class
Posts: 150
|
posted September 13, 2002 12:01 PM
 Edited By: FinalVelocity on 13 Sep 2002 13:03
This is what I'm deducing as far as motorcycle diagnostic information goes:
Suzuki cars run the ISO protocol. As do Hondas and most European cars. So Odds are that most F.I Suzooks run ISO/Keyword2000. Betcha Hondas use ISO on their fuel injected motorcycles, but I have no idea what Kawasaki or Yamaha do. As far as the ECU goes, possibly they are 16 bit?
As far as the 12's connector's pins being accounted for, there must be a way motorcycle manufacturers reprogram the ECU. How are trouble codes/DTCs downloaded? How is diagnostic information collected? Are motorcycle networks OBD2 compliant? I could not find these answers online.
|
swft
Needs a life
Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
|
posted September 14, 2002 07:59 PM
The one thing common between all the jap bikes is the Denso ECU. Therein lies the answer. Unfortunately, the answer is prolly not online. I would imagine their method of communication is closely guarded. And nowhere does the factory service manual go beyond the technician reading fault codes from the dash. If you equate the sensors to network stations, all the jap bikes are using a star topology. Ducati is the only manufacturer that I know of using something more sophisticated, in that more than one sensor communicate over the same wire. So the wiring on most bikes (and cars) is about as sophisticated as a 1970's era computer. In those earlier mainframe computers, most communication through the computer was in parallel. Third generation computers (and missile systems) use serial communication, with standard computing elements and a common network protocol to identify data from various subsystems. So instead of 200 wires in your bike, the technology exists wherein you could have maybe 5 wires. If you were to apply today's technology, you could be down to possibly 3 wires. Considering that most of the parts of the bike are physically bolted together, it would be possible to actually have *no* wires, and simply carry the signals through the existing frame and subframes. The biggest obstacle to this is the higher amperage systems, such as lighting and ignition/fuel injection. But those are not insurmountable. A good way to equate it would be to look at those '70s era computers, where a single flip-flop was a large bifolding circuit card with discrete mounted components, and a modern computer chip, with millions of transistors literally 'grown' in the silicon wafer. So the motorcycle of 2020 would consist of a polysteel ceramic frame and wheels, with power and data communication channels imbedded into the frame and subframes. All essential information would be gathered by standard interchangeable data communication modules, and relayed to the ECU via those imbedded data channels. High amperate power would be routed from the power cell via heavy duty power channels to those subsystems that required it, such as lighting and ignition/fuel injection. Neat idea, but it'll never happen. We're stuck in the '70s.
|
swft
Needs a life
Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
|
posted September 16, 2002 03:03 PM
I guess that was 'nuff said, eh?
|
FinalVelocity
Expert Class
Posts: 150
|
posted September 18, 2002 02:07 PM
Actually no! - Haven't been checking here often - got major problems with my RD350.
Cars have a 16 bit ECU in them atleast, with some of them having 32 bit ECUs. Some of the high end cars with major techno-wizardry are now actually ugrading to Pentiums. There is a fair amount of network protocol traffic going in the bus of a car. Our company manufactures vehicle diagnostic hardware and software. You'll be surprised at the amount of information going on in the vehicle network.
I'm pretty sure our bikes have some protocol in them - if there's an ECU in there (even 8 bit) then there has to be some kind of langauage the different nodes on the network speak to each other in. Question is what is it,what kind of information etc.
Yoshimura-rd makes some EMS. I think they would have some information but sure as hell won't give it out!
|
|
|
HOME
NEW TOPIC