Phantom13
Zone Head
Posts: 736
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posted September 27, 2008 02:56 PM
quote:
he wont believe you unless you can prove it was at a sanctioned event like the maxton mile or texas mile(if it was from a standing start in a mile). but if you had more than a mile im sure you did pull that mph with that kind of hp 
I believe GPS too.
Doesn't need to be at a sanctioned event either, but it does validate the exact distance of the run which is crucial whenever comparing achieved speeds.
I apologize if I seem confrontational, it's just that you don't hear about a ZX-12R doing those kind of speeds very often, in fact, at 214mph.... you'd have the 2nd fastest nitrous 12R ever recorded at a sanctioned event to date that I'm aware of.
Being an avid LSR enthusiast and the owner/rider of a Nitrous 12R, naturally I'm interested in the details behind your 214mph run on such a lightly modified 12R. Weither it was done in a standing mile or 3 miles from a 150mph roll..... a LEGIT 214mph on GPS/Radar/Timing lights is IMPRESSIVE!
____________
"The only place Success comes
before Work is inside the Dictionary."
   
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Kwaknut
Parking Attendant
Posts: 7
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posted September 28, 2008 03:29 AM
 Edited By: Kwaknut on 28 Sep 2008 11:33
quote:
quote:
he wont believe you unless you can prove it was at a sanctioned event like the maxton mile or texas mile(if it was from a standing start in a mile). but if you had more than a mile im sure you did pull that mph with that kind of hp
I believe GPS too.
Doesn't need to be at a sanctioned event either, but it does validate the exact distance of the run which is crucial whenever comparing achieved speeds.
I apologize if I seem confrontational, it's just that you don't hear about a ZX-12R doing those kind of speeds very often, in fact, at 214mph.... you'd have the 2nd fastest nitrous 12R ever recorded at a sanctioned event to date that I'm aware of.
Being an avid LSR enthusiast and the owner/rider of a Nitrous 12R, naturally I'm interested in the details behind your 214mph run on such a lightly modified 12R. Weither it was done in a standing mile or 3 miles from a 150mph roll..... a LEGIT 214mph on GPS/Radar/Timing lights is IMPRESSIVE!
I can't claim a sanctioned event, or having done it within a set distance - far from that.
It was on a long road. 2-mile plus slightly downhill straight - and you join that straight coming out of a 160mph left-hander ready to go to redline in 5th with a short squirt of gas then hit and hold the button when she's in 6th. At the end of the straight the next bend can be taken at 150+ so there's not much need to slow.
Over 2 miles downhill to get from 160 to 214, with about 230rwbhp, not that wild a claim!
Gearing was 7% up with a 43 tooth rear sprocket. At 11550rpm in top (datalogged), that works out to 215.5mph with the 190/50 BT010 I used. Speedo, which has been calibrated both on dyno and over timed straights, also suggested 215 when I'd worked back the error.
GPS said 214mph peak, so I used the lower figure. It was a friend's GPS which he'd used on the strip and he reckoned it always agreed close enough with strip's timing equipment.
Mirrors were off, the front was dropped half an inch, and I was tucked up so, so small behind the screen!
Gearing is back to standard now, and she just flies to redline in 6th worryingly quickly on the gas - I don't want the limiter to lean her out and blow the motor with nitrous pumping in at that kind of speed, so I avoid the last couple of hundred rpm.
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Phantom13
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posted September 28, 2008 04:50 AM
Edited By: Phantom13 on 28 Sep 2008 14:01
18/43 gearing @ 11,550rpm (the stock rev limiter) is only worth 211mph with that tire. You can't go by gearing calculators, dyno's, or speedo's because they do not factor in wheelspin which robs the bike of theoritical gearing.
They say stock gearing is good for 201mph... but in the real world with tire slippage it slams into the rev limiter at 196mph.
I wonder how the GPS read 214mph if you're only geared for a real 211mph. Weird.... your tire had zero tire slippage on pavement at 200+mph.... with street tires no less.
Your buddy with the GPS didn't happen to be the Easter Bunny would it? Snoopy perhaps? lol
Sorry for the antics, no disrespect intended, but there have been a lot of "claims" over the years from guys who ended up being completely full of crap (intentionally and unintentionally). So when I hear a story that doesn't quite add up... I tend to be a bit skeptical, this is of course the internet. lol
If you did indeed do a legit 214mph, downhill over 2 miles with a 160mph headstart.... that's great, but on a forum full of gearheads and track racers like this one... bar stool stories about top speeds on the street don't fly very well without proof, especially the ones that don't quite add up.
Oh, and if you're wondering why I care, it's because bogus claims water down the legit accomplishments of others. It's hard for someone to understand the accomplishment of a legit 200mph when their buddy on a piped busa told him he hit 210mph on the highway.
I know I'm coming across like a dick, but try to understand that there are people who have sacrificed a lot time, money, energy, and even their lives in the pursuit of these kinds of speeds and it's really easy for anyone with a keyboard and imagination to take away from that. Again, I'm not saying that's what YOU are doing, I'm just trying to give you my point of view on the subject.
____________
"The only place Success comes
before Work is inside the Dictionary."
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Kwaknut
Parking Attendant
Posts: 7
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posted September 28, 2008 06:47 AM
quote:
18/43 gearing @ 11,550rpm (the stock rev limiter) is only worth 211mph with that tire. You can't go by gearing calculators, dyno's, or speedo's because they do not factor in wheelspin which robs the bike of theoritical gearing.
They say stock gearing is good for 201mph... but in the real world with tire slippage it slams into the rev limiter at 196mph.
I wonder how the GPS read 214mph if you're only geared for a real 211mph. Weird.... your tire had zero tire slippage on pavement at 200+mph.... with street tires no less.
Your buddy with the GPS didn't happen to be the Easter Bunny would it? Snoopy perhaps? lol
Sorry for the antics, no disrespect intended, but there have been a lot of "claims" over the years from guys who ended up being completely full of crap (intentionally and unintentionally). So when I hear a story that doesn't quite add up... I tend to be a bit skeptical, this is of course the internet. lol
If you did indeed do a legit 214mph, downhill over 2 miles with a 160mph headstart.... that's great, but on a forum full of gearheads and track racers like this one... bar stool stories about top speeds on the street don't fly very well without proof, especially the ones that don't quite add up.
Oh, and if you're wondering why I care, it's because bogus claims water down the legit accomplishments of others. It's hard for someone to understand the accomplishment of a legit 200mph when their buddy on a piped busa told him he hit 210mph on the highway.
I know I'm coming across like a dick, but try to understand that there are people who have sacrificed a lot time, money, energy, and even their lives in the pursuit of these kinds of speeds and it's really easy for anyone with a keyboard and imagination to take away from that. Again, I'm not saying that's what YOU are doing, I'm just trying to give you my point of view on the subject.
No problem, a little scepticism is a good thing.
Like I said, the GPS was used on track and gave known good results (the owner has a bit of a gut but isn't quite as cuddly as the Easter Bunny).
As for the calculations, I agree with the theoretical 201mph redline with standard gearing, but applying the same math to my setup gave me 215.5 - I'd suggest you double check your figures.
I can only go on what measurements I had. I'm not claiming any official record so there's no need for great excitement over whether others have achieved more or less with similar bikes. I didn't check wind, I didn’t calibrate the GPS (which was known accurate up to 150 or so but who knows above that), and I'm not writing to the World Records people, I’m just saying what can be done with a mildly tuned ZX12 and a well set up nitrous kit.
And, let's face it, 214 or 211? They're pretty close, and if it was only 211, I’m happy.
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It was the devil made me do it, officer.
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Phantom13
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posted September 28, 2008 08:45 AM
First of all, I'd like to thank you for not taking me the wrong way. As you can probably tell... I'm one of the more "enthusiastic" guys around here when it comes to these kind of things.
As for the figures, you must not have read what I wrote carefully. Because of the laws of physics there is WHEELSPIN that occurs at high speeds. This wheelspin increases RPM but NOT speed, which "robs" the bike of potential gearing. So while a stock geared 18/46 ZX-12R is mechanically geared for 201mph, the extra rpm caused by wheelspin causes the rev limiter to be reached at an ACTUAL 196mph.
This is why YOUR math is "theoretically" correct but in the real world... it doesn't work that way.
Knowing that ZERO tire slippage defies the laws of physics at those speeds, it makes it hard to swallow that your GPS recorded 214mph with 18/43 gearing and a 190/55 street tire.
As for the GPS, they are pretty accurate if you give them enough time to refresh the data... if anything it would read low... not high. At Maxton, we've tested our GPS units against the certified timing lights and have found them to be within 0.2mph consistantly, with the GPS always being the slower of the two.
Again, I may be wrong (and if you prove me wrong I will humbly apologize!!!) but it looks like your story imploded because you assumed the gearing calculator would give you the correct gearing to make the story "possible". Had you accounted for wheelspin and said 18/42 gearing or a taller tire than a 190/50.... this story would have been very believeable considering the horsepower and distance. Oh, and to be perfectly honest, the fact that you have a total of 6 posts (most of them on this thread) doesn't help make me a believer. lol
The Devil is in the Details my friend. No big deal though, if you're ever interested in getting a little more involved with speed you should come out to an LSR event. It's a ton of fun and you'll definately get faster by learning from others at the track.
Anyway, enough about all that.... let's see some pics of your 12R. I don't care if it goes 215mph or 125mph.... it's always nice to see another Nitrous Injected ZX-12R!
____________
"The only place Success comes
before Work is inside the Dictionary."
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Kwaknut
Parking Attendant
Posts: 7
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posted September 28, 2008 10:27 AM
Edited By: Kwaknut on 28 Sep 2008 19:09
quote:
First of all, I'd like to thank you for not taking me the wrong way. As you can probably tell... I'm one of the more "enthusiastic" guys around here when it comes to these kind of things.
Not a problem – in 25 years of tuning cars and bikes I’ve always been a sceptic of claims myself.
quote:
As for the figures, you must not have read what I wrote carefully. Because of the laws of physics there is WHEELSPIN that occurs at high speeds. This wheelspin increases RPM but NOT speed, which "robs" the bike of potential gearing. So while a stock geared 18/46 ZX-12R is mechanically geared for 201mph, the extra rpm caused by wheelspin causes the rev limiter to be reached at an ACTUAL 196mph.
Granny does know how to suck eggs. I’m not some spotty kid with his first bike, I’m a chartered mechanical engineer and have experience in both automotive and aviation end-use industries.
My understanding (and I admit to not being an expert) is that straight line tyre slippage is higher under acceleration and steadies somewhat at speed, and that many conditions affect it.
quote:
Knowing that ZERO tire slippage defies the laws of physics at those speeds, it makes it hard to swallow that your GPS recorded 214mph with 18/43 gearing and a 190/55 street tire. As for the GPS, they are pretty accurate if you give them enough time to refresh the data... if anything it would read low... not high. At Maxton, we've tested our GPS units against the certified timing lights and have found them to be within 0.2mph consistantly, with the GPS always being the slower of the two.
Well, this GPS read 214. You don’t have top believe it, but I saw the display. As for the rest, the bike did whatever speed a ZX12 can do with a 43 tooth rear on a new 190 tyre with 42psi at the limiter in top gear. If that’s less than 214, fine, the GPS was not infallible – no device is. I know aircraft GPS systems that are only rated at about 1% so consistent 0.2mph is pretty amazing. Something just costing a couple of hundred dollars won’t be perfect.
quote:
Again, I may be wrong (and if you prove me wrong I will humbly apologize!!!) but it looks like your story imploded because you assumed the gearing calculator would give you the correct gearing to make the story "possible". Had you accounted for wheelspin and said 18/42 gearing or a taller tire than a 190/50.... this story would have been very believeable considering the horsepower and distance. Oh, and to be perfectly honest, the fact that you have a total of 6 posts (most of them on this thread) doesn't help make me a believer. lol
Well, it’s sounding like you assume people are liars if they’re not long-term members of this forum. There was no ‘story’, just statement.
quote:
The Devil is in the Details my friend. No big deal though, if you're ever interested in getting a little more involved with speed you should come out to an LSR event. It's a ton of fun and you'll definately get faster by learning from others at the track.
Anyway, enough about all that.... let's see some pics of your 12R. I don't care if it goes 215mph or 125mph.... it's always nice to see another Nitrous Injected ZX-12R
Fair call, photos later (one is my avatar). But . . . indulge me now.
Slippage – good point. How do you compare slippage with expansion at speed? What is your source of estimates for slippage, and how do those figures compare with expansion figures?
I’ve come across UK bike test results which show bikes (through timing sets that have been used to verify records) passing at speeds ABOVE their theoretical maximum, due to tyre expansion and tail wind.
Also, your calculations for ZX12R top speed. I said I agreed with you, but I just checked my own spreadsheets and I have to ask you now to confirm where you came up with theoretical 201mph at 11550 for a standard 12?
____________
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Phantom13
Zone Head
Posts: 736
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posted September 28, 2008 12:35 PM
Edited By: Phantom13 on 28 Sep 2008 20:47
This one is a bit long winded, sorry in advance! lol
Tire slippage increases at high speeds because you're encountering increasing amounts of wind resistance which causes a loss in traction.
Same principle occurs when holding the front brakes while doing a burnout. The tire spins because power being applied to the wheel overcomes available traction. At speed, wind resistance behaves much like front brakes do during a burnout, to a lesser extent of course. That percentage of slippage increases wheel and engine speed but not the speed of the actual bike.
There is tire growth as you mentioned, but it's negated by wheelspin.
Many people have done real world testing of the stock rev limiter on the ZX-12R. They all hit the rev limiter at 196-197mph with stock gearing, stock circum. tire, stock rev limiter. So when you do gearing calculations... you need to use 196mph for 18/46, then add/subtract gearing from that. So weither your spreadsheet shows 18/46 gearing being worth 201mph, 205mph, or 250mph.... the fact doesn't change that a 100% standard 12R will only net 196mph (+/-) at the rev limiter in the real world.
Also, I wouldn't go too crazy about believing the UK test bike results. I read in a UK mag during a test of the Busa going 200+mph in stock trim.... later that same magazine did a retraction stating that the timing lights were indeed inaccurate. (I can find the exact issue and article if you really want the details) Of course there are factors that may increase potential gearing by reducing slippage such as a large tailwind .... but not to the point where actual speeds surpass "theoretical" speeds. If indeed "test bikes" are surpassing their theoritical speeds, it's because they have increased rev limiters or significantly larger tire circumference.
As for the GPS, if you say you saw 214mph then that's what you saw. Perhaps the fact that you were going downhill altered the reading somehow? I wouldn't know, I've never tested a GPS at speed on anything but flat road.
Oh, and about the post count thing..... it's just that you haven't been around here long enough to solidify any type of credibility behind your word. This doesn't mean I assume you're a liar, it means you're a stranger around here and for all anyone knows you're "a spotty kid with his first bike". I apologize if that's how you felt I treated you, it's obvious you're far from that and it was not my intention.
Cheers,
Mike
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"The only place Success comes
before Work is inside the Dictionary."
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Phantom13
Zone Head
Posts: 736
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posted September 28, 2008 12:55 PM
By the way, which datalogger are you using?
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before Work is inside the Dictionary."
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted September 29, 2008 03:04 PM
Mike,
You have a fast as hell 1287, no doubt that Sal knowns his stuff.
My 1427 is off 30hp, from what it was making in Jan; who the fuk knows where that hp went???
But, even 30 hp off, with 230# (nekkid) me in the saddle i easily went 200, 201.9 at Maxton in 100% dead air on last weekend, 203 in Jun w/ a lil tail wind.
How fast have you gone at maxton??
Again, props to yr bike, fastest 1287 I know of, but it's no match for more displacement when properly set up.
I do 100% of the building of my motor/bike, and I WILL get back that hp, it is driving me crazy!!!!
DaveO did 4 passes on my wreck at the Texas Mile and said if it pulled in 6th like it did in 5th, it would do 210-15 at Maxton; I WILL find out what's wrong.
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted September 29, 2008 06:46 PM
Hey, that "downhill" part is real important.
How steep? The "give back" of power when decending with the help of gravity is the same as the "give up" with the amount needed to overcome the amount needed to maintain speed in a climb. Gravity is "pulling" the bike in a descent.
Anything other than level ground nullifies comparisons.
D.
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It's not that I think you're dumb, it's just that so much of what you know isn't true....
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted September 30, 2008 12:28 PM
Karl is it just in 6th thats its down on power? maybe try swapping 5th and 6th gear pos wires? maybe the ecu has a corrupt section in its 6th gear map?
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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Phantom13
Zone Head
Posts: 736
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posted September 30, 2008 01:25 PM
Edited By: Phantom13 on 30 Sep 2008 23:02
quote:
Mike,
You have a fast as hell 1287, no doubt that Sal knowns his stuff.
My 1427 is off 30hp, from what it was making in Jan; who the fuk knows where that hp went???
But, even 30 hp off, with 230# (nekkid) me in the saddle i easily went 200, 201.9 at Maxton in 100% dead air on last weekend, 203 in Jun w/ a lil tail wind.
How fast have you gone at maxton??
Again, props to yr bike, fastest 1287 I know of, but it's no match for more displacement when properly set up.
I do 100% of the building of my motor/bike, and I WILL get back that hp, it is driving me crazy!!!!
DaveO did 4 passes on my wreck at the Texas Mile and said if it pulled in 6th like it did in 5th, it would do 210-15 at Maxton; I WILL find out what's wrong.
Sal and I built the engine together. When I was not there physically working on it.... it was not to be touched, The chassis, electronics, and bodywork was done by myself. All testing and tuning is done with me in the saddle and Sal on the laptop (ok, afterwards he likes to show me up and put 5mph on my best! lol).
Damn, 30rwhp? That's a ton of HP, I'd be fairly upset as well!
You did very well at Maxton during both events, not too many N/A 12's break 200mph period.
I never got a "good" pass in at Maxton, I had to do my license runs on Sat, and Sunday I ended up being undergeared and I smacked violently into the rev limiter in 6th gear at 200-201mph about 100ft before the first light. I rode the rev limiter the entire 100ft + and was decelerating the entire 66ft between the lights. Bike still put 198.7mph on the lights. It was starting to get late so I regeared it and handed the bike over to Sal who jumped on it a few times later that day and went 205.59mph. Oh, I was 220lb's nekid at the time.... thankfully I dropped 20 off myself and 15 more off the bike since then.
The biggest problem was that the datalogger on the bike broke the day before we left, so my A/F was off and we were guessing. We figured out via comparison to another bike we were running that all our A/F's went 10% lean over our tune down here in hot humid south florida. I didn't even compensate for 1/2 that much in fuel and was down 2mph over what the bike WOULD have ran had we been able to dial it in.
Either way, since then we've found another 4+mph N/A in the bike with the same 1287cc's... so we're expecting favorable results, weather permitting. I have Sal on a contingency program with my bike where he gets a little bonus for anything above 208mph N/A. Reason being is that it would make my little 1287 the fastest N/A 12R of any displacement in the mile, which has been our goal since day one.
Karl, I hope you find that missing HP and get your bike sorted out. Then maybe we can do a little friendly comparison of your 1427 vs my 1287 at Maxton and finally see if bigger is always better. Loser sends Winner a Pabst?
____________
"The only place Success comes
before Work is inside the Dictionary."
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted September 30, 2008 03:58 PM
hey Mike, heres a challenge. run him in the mile, then run him in the 1/4 mile. only change allowed is gearing, pc maps and pipes (incase you want a sidewinder) 
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted October 01, 2008 03:58 AM
quote:
Karl, ... maybe we can do a little friendly comparison of your 1427 vs my 1287 at Maxton and finally see if bigger is always better. Loser sends Winner a Pabst?
Mike,
EXCELLENT!
I am 110% in favor of "friendly comparisons" that involve beer . 
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brickman
Expert Class
Posts: 294
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posted October 01, 2008 05:06 AM
quote:
ok question for you big motor guys.....it looks like I will be keeping my 01 ZX12R, and its a lot of fun, but I am thinking of doing a big bore kit, if I do, I would like to pull 200hp or more. I thought about a 1270 kit, but they dont always get the magic 200 mark. If I put in Muzzys 1317 kit it should be a pretty easy 200hp, but will it be streetable. I am not a drag racer, just a HP junkie and enjoy just riding.
I have never had anything but a stock motored bike. Pretty good states of tune, but still only stock, what do you think?
... if 200hp is what you are looking for i would keep the 1270 and send the head to carpenter.
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oldkawboy
Needs a job
Posts: 2125
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posted October 01, 2008 05:25 AM
Karl is just 110% in favor of ANYTHING that involves beer!
Glad to see you guys keeping the 12 and it's spirit alive, I'm slowly but surely getting back involved.
Dan
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KZScott
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high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted October 01, 2008 02:14 PM
awesome stuff Dan, getting one LSR ready? Im doing my best to keep it alive! the short track version though
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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Phantom13
Zone Head
Posts: 736
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posted October 01, 2008 02:23 PM
Entropy- I know you'll be in Texas this October, but I definately want to meet up sometime next year. I'll most likely be at the first Maxton event in 09, perhaps then?
Should make for a very interesting and FUN comparo. Classic David vs Goliath scenario!
____________
"The only place Success comes
before Work is inside the Dictionary."
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KZScott
Needs a life
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Posts: 7235
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posted October 01, 2008 02:46 PM
Edited By: KZScott on 1 Oct 2008 22:47
140cc diff hardly seems "david vs goliath" lol. its like a 10-11 percent change in displacement
now if you were on a 636, david vs goliath would be appropriate imo
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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Phantom13
Zone Head
Posts: 736
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posted October 01, 2008 05:33 PM
Edited By: Phantom13 on 2 Oct 2008 01:36
1287cc = 88cc's over stock
1427cc = 228cc's over stock
A 1427 is 2.5 TIMES the increase in displacement than a 1287..... that's David vs Goliath enough for me! lol
____________
"The only place Success comes
before Work is inside the Dictionary."
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted October 01, 2008 06:24 PM
quote:
1287cc = 88cc's over stock
1427cc = 228cc's over stock
A 1427 is 2.5 TIMES the increase in displacement than a 1287..... that's David vs Goliath enough for me! lol
and that would make sence IF you were dealing with a tiny bike(228cc on top of a 250 ninja would be a big deal). its not about how much of an increase it is over stock, its comparing actual sizes. theres only a 140cc diff between 2 bikes that are well over 1200cc. you are wording it so that it appears that Karls motor is 2.5 times bigger than yours(you should get into sales lol), when the reality of the situation is his motor is only 10-11 % bigger than yours.
if we go by your logic, and you went with 1mm oversize pistons instead of 3mm (a tiny change in displacement when its being added to 1199cc) for a 1228cc (29cc over stock) then the Karls bike is 7.8 times the increase in displacement over yous, but its still only about 16% bigger TOTAL
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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Phantom13
Zone Head
Posts: 736
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posted October 01, 2008 07:30 PM
If I should get into sales, you should get into politics! lol
Oh well, I guess you have your opinion and I have mine, so I will have to respectfully agree to disagree in regards to the David vs Goliath reference.
I do appreciate your input though, it's always a good thing to hear different points of view.
____________
"The only place Success comes
before Work is inside the Dictionary."
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted October 02, 2008 01:13 AM
haha im not that good of a liar
ill agree to disagree. i think we both "know" we are right lol
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted October 02, 2008 03:26 AM
IMO the 1287 is prob closer in hp to the 1427 than the strick % difference in cc's.
1427 makes a compromise by stroking into a cyl that is not made for it = scuffing; gotta cost hp
My 1427 has an offset block which puts the combustion chambers offset to the pistons; gotta cost hp.
In fact, now that I think of it, Mike should spot me about 10 bike lengths & the move so we have a fair race.
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Phantom13
Zone Head
Posts: 736
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posted October 02, 2008 12:29 PM
Karl, I'm unfamiliar with the 1427's... approximately how much hp/tq do they usually put out with good cams and headwork?
So 10 bikes & the hit? Umkay, but not for Pabst..... I'm only willing to bet a can of Natural Light with those terms! lol
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"The only place Success comes
before Work is inside the Dictionary."
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