TReMor
Expert Class
Dazed and Confused
Posts: 115
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posted August 29, 2002 02:02 PM
Good posts all around here.
Having been through the Reserve Academy to the extent that I can perform any function that a normal Deputy can (as long as I have another officer with me), I can totally identify with what both sides of this "discussion" are saying. As I received my training, it opened my eyes in many, many ways to what an actual cop deals with on a day to day basis. Also, with the tremendous amount of training that LEO's in California get in comparison to other parts of the country, it's easy to see why there may be inconsistencies in the officers one deals with.
The bottom line (as I see it) is that attitude prevails over all. The attitude of the person stopped, AND the attitude of the person doing the stopping. I can tell you that in the Academy they preach, and preach, and preach, that the job is a civil service job, and that we are there for those people. They tell us that "customer satisfaction" is the primary goal of each and every interaction with civilians. Believe me, they pounded it, day in and day out, through the 8 months I was in training.
That being said, in my experience (so far,) many times customer satisfaction just isn't possible all the time. When you stop someone and they are bitching and moaning before you even approach the car, that can't help but bias you a little bit. When your "trained observer" senses (of which I have only a little, thus far) start to tell you that something is up, your first reaction is (and should be) to control the situation by any means possible.
This is not anything any different from what you would do in any situation that raised your awareness, regardless of who you are, cop or not. The difference is that LEO's go through that on each and every traffic stop, each and every call, each and every encounter with the public. After a while, one would think that you'd develop a tendency towards expecting the unexpected, and your demeanor would suffer from it. Seeing horrible traffic accident fatalities, suicides, abused children, abused spouses, rape victims, armed robberies, murders, etc. etc. on an almost weekly basis is certainly going to start coloring how you see the world around you. Heightened awareness comes with the territory, as does a certain skepticism towards anyone you don't know.
This is the way I look at it. From my experiences and interactions with many LEO's, I can tell you that most people get into Law Enforcement for the same reasons why I have. The idea that we could make a difference in our community, and maybe even a bit of a "calling" to have an impact on things around us. I think that most officers will tell you that this is why they are still in L.E., but the fact is as time goes on they get biased towards certain groups or individuals.
As for me, I actually signed up for the Reserve Academy before 9/11, but I can tell you that after that tragedy, I was doubly or triply committed to going as far as I could with it. I'm now working on going full time. I am currently in background with Riverside County, and have also considered other agencies around me. Throughout my training, I have had contact with many very amazing people, and I can tell you that the overall message is one of total positivity towards the people whom we are to "serve." But, as has been said here before, an a$$hole is an a$$hole no matter how he's dressed.
Tim
Just one quick aside as well, I want to say publicly that worm~hole (aka 22348bCVC, aka Nano) is one helluva guy on this board as well as in real life. The way he carries himself here (and other boards) is exactly the way he is in real life. I've been lucky enough to talk to him a number of times, and have ridden with him once since his Laguna Seca accident. The way he views things (and is able to verbalize them) is pretty much dead on with what you'll find in 99% of the "good" officers out there, and I think we're all pretty lucky to have him as a resource here. He calls 'em like he sees 'em, but he's as squared away a guy as you'll find with a badge and a gun, IMHO.
Ok, enough ass-kissing...Hey Nano, how about a ride-along sometime soon with you and your killer beast? 
All kidding aside, sorry for the long ramble. I'm at work, and this has been interrupted many times.
Tim
   
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
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posted August 29, 2002 02:13 PM
actually worm~hole (not to be confused at all with ASS~hole  ), i think i can imagine it pretty well. i'v always fancied myself as being good at seeing other people's views, and appreciating them too. htats the only thing that keeps me from goin off sometimes i think. i always consider that from the other party's shoes, they usually seem in the right. ya know how we all say 90% of people are assholes, yet most or all of our freinds are not? thats just cause it depends on which way the asshole is facing. i'v known some people who were some of my greatest friends, and very loyal and generous and generally kind to their friends. but they were assholes (i mean REALLY assholes) to the general public. the opposite is so often true in family. how often have u seen a family member/loved one act like the perfect member of society, all kind & attrative & shit in public, but be a regular asshole in private (but u still love em of course)? point is, teh same applies to cops. if u'r on the wrong side of their center of gravity, he's an asshole. but chances are he's a fine person from most other angles.
frankly, i think g93t hit it on the head. 90% of people are assholes (all around), so cops r likely to approach that percentage too. granted they are a rather filtered group, so it's likely lower, but i still maintain that those that r originally from the 90% will likely be concentrated in traffic where we, as bikers, keep runnin into them.
and work~Hole, i think u actually misunderstood my conclusion in the previous tirade. i dont hate cops & dont really think most of them are asshoels, it just seems like it from my seat cause i'm the one gettin a ticket. unfortunately most the tickets i'v had came fom cops who seemed cold as a school marm, they just didnt seem to give a shit. they were goin thru the motions, not "serving and protecting". but like i said, i may just not be able to read them cause their training has taught them that demeanor. they could also have simply been hardened by years of handin out tickets to people who just start swearin at em or whatever. finally, i have been told that my demeanor is less than friendly when i'm stopped, altho it's not intentional or even concious. i am oft accused of commin across as arrogant, a characteristic that naturally induces a hard hearted response.
what it all comes down to, is we're blamin the wrong people. if i dont like it, i should try to have the law amended (not gonna happen cause too many people r entrenched in the idea that speeding=death), or better yet, push for mroe tracks being built. publicly owned tracks that are relatively cheap to attend, where i can go fast and pass people on whatever side i want and not be worried about gettin tickets or hurtin innocent bystanders. course, it will never be as nice as havint 1000's of kms raods to explore, but scenery is for cruising, not racin thru. and besides, u cant have it all.
as to the spitter, liek i alluded to before, if they attack u, why the fuck cant u retaliate? there's that higher standard thing again. as far as i'm concerned, if someone atcks u on the job, u should b free to knock him back, same as u would be allowed to out of uniform. u'r a cop, nto a punching bag.
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worm~hole
Needs a life
Miles to go before I sleep....
Posts: 10623
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posted August 29, 2002 02:52 PM
..heh heh heh...the thing is, if he's an active spitter and continues to spit on you as you're telling him to stop, sure, all bets are off...time to open up a bigBigBIGBIG!!! can of whoop-ass...but whatcha gonna do when the arrestee is strapped in the back seat and you're driving up front?...I know what some cops might do...and I know what I absolutely won't do...same goes for a puncher and a kicker...if he punches you then lays down and gives up, do you think you have the right to punch him back?...would you?...is he an active threat?...again, I know what some cops might do...and I know what I absolutely won't do...ya' gotta see the totality of the situation before you take action or even judge the actions of everyone at the scene...its just like the school principle in the school yard...in a schoolyard fight, most people will not see who punched first, but most will see who punched last....as a matter of fact, the news media tends to do that, too...
...no, frEEK....I didn't misunderstand you...maybe I didn't 'splain myself well enough...we're good to go  ...just remember that this worm~hole can be an ASS*HOLE if he has to...like 90% of the regular assholes out there
TReMor: I'll see what I can do...if not with me, then with one of my beat partners
____________
“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
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redelk
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
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posted August 29, 2002 03:35 PM
WAIT JUST A GOD DAMN MINUTE! WHAT'S WITH THIS SHIT?
...worm~hole (aka 22348bCVC, aka Nano)
You tryin' to tell me that they are ALL one in the same? Hell, all this time I've been thinkin that worm~hole was just another cop with dog food in the back of his car... LIKE nano. I didn't think it WAS nano!
STOP MESSIN' WITH MY HEAD, YA'LL!
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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ddpete3
Pro
Posts: 1189
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posted August 29, 2002 03:37 PM
Pay attention red.
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TReMor
Expert Class
Dazed and Confused
Posts: 115
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posted August 29, 2002 04:14 PM
Err, oops...didn't mean to let the cat out o' the bag. Of course, it's fairly common knowledge.
Tim
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redelk
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
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posted August 29, 2002 05:49 PM
Worm, you wouldn't happen to be talkin' about what is called in these here parts, a "screen test", would ya? It's damn shame they replaced them screens with that plexiglas crap. It might be "safer", but it don't make them purty patterns on the side of the "transportee's" face like them screen mesh used to do! I know those officers would just hate it when they'd have to slame on those brakes to keep from hittin' that lil' kitten runnin' across the road.
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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slug
Pro
Out in search of my mind...
Posts: 1433
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posted August 29, 2002 06:06 PM
3 times...
 
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zx12rpilot
Expert Class
Posts: 120
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posted August 29, 2002 06:24 PM
Amen!
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
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posted August 29, 2002 06:45 PM
frankly nano, i have a REAL hard time imagining u being an asshole. i swear u dont have it in u 
as to the puncher who lays down...well, ur' a better man than i am nano. if someone lands one on ya then immediately lies down prone just to use the "rules" to his advantage, he deserves a walloping more than the guy who keeps swingin at u imho.
in any case, i do admire the willingness to take on a difficult and dangerous job, and definitely admire anyone who can actually do it well. and what tremor says is most certainly true. worm~hole is more definitely one awesome person.
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worm~hole
Needs a life
Miles to go before I sleep....
Posts: 10623
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posted August 29, 2002 09:38 PM
...shucks, guys...its not just me...its the majority of cops out there and here on our site...and that's my message...get to know them, ride with them, have a beer...just know that when its time to play rough, the game face goes on...even the nicest guys and gals out there will become an asshole if that's what it takes to control a situation...
...we're just like you, but we have a different job and perhaps a little different view of some things...seeing stuff, hearing stuff, and experiencing stuff on a week to week basis for any length of time that most 'normal' citizens only get to read about kinda' does that to a person...we all live in a different world than it was a year ago...or even 20 years ago...
____________
“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
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worm~hole
Needs a life
Miles to go before I sleep....
Posts: 10623
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posted August 29, 2002 09:54 PM
 Edited By: worm~hole on 29 Aug 2002 23:05
...sorry Redelk...thought you knew...I created worm~hole at Laguna 2002...I think its time to kill off 22348bCVC like they did Kenny...long live worm~hole!...22348bCVC is now officially E.O.S. (End of shift)..................... *
____________
“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted August 30, 2002 05:19 PM
I read your story! All I could think is 2 things! They never found your stolen bike! #2, while I was in Daytona last year, they thought they were stealing my ZX12 and stole my 1984 900 Ninja! The only way "I" Found it was they parked / left it in an alley not parked legally and the put a parking ticket on my bike for having an expired tag 10 years expired! We drove over to that spot and there was the Bike! Had to then call the police and help them find the spot so I could take the bike home!
I was not "Seriously" locking up everything, now I am!
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slug
Pro
Out in search of my mind...
Posts: 1433
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posted August 31, 2002 03:17 AM
how do you mistake a zx12 for a 1984 bike of any type?!?!?
retards....
hehe glad you got it back
did they charge you for the parking ticket?
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bagster
Zone Head
Posts: 630
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posted September 02, 2002 06:00 AM
hey worm~hole,
In your experiences,Has anyone ever just gotten out of their car and layed face-down in the street on their own, before you even get out of your car?
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted September 02, 2002 06:37 PM
SHEESH...This kind of topic always makes for a long heated debate!!!
CrotchRocket
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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worm~hole
Needs a life
Miles to go before I sleep....
Posts: 10623
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posted September 02, 2002 10:00 PM
Edited By: worm~hole on 3 Sep 2002 05:16
quote:
hey worm~hole,
In your experiences,Has anyone ever just gotten out of their car and layed face-down in the street on their own, before you even get out of your car?
...no, but they've complied with the authoritive voice commands...and a few out-of-control-sounding barks from my dog helps, too...most poeple comply, tho....and I do find that bangers usually stick their hands up and out of the car without being asked...they somehow know the drill ...and I've experienced irrate drivers get the jump on me by being out of their cars before I can open my door....not a good feeling, if you know what I mean...
____________
“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
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G93T
Parking Attendant
Posts: 25
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posted September 03, 2002 03:57 AM
Hey worm~hole !!!
quote:
we can be assholes who are held to a higher standard
Is that something like asshole2(square) or asshole3 (cube)???!!!
If you read stories like the female cop in Dayton, OH that was shot 3 times by a scum, and recently died after being crippled for 2 years I would definitely be the "Exponential asshole of a higher standard from hell cop"!!!
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G93T
5.0 Mustangs
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TedG
Moderator
Posts: 8222
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posted September 03, 2002 11:05 AM
I look at it this way at the top of the food chain is the patrol cop, the guy here to protect and serve. At the bottom is the traffic cop right below lawyer. I dispise the fact that I have to kiss ass (to the point of embarrassment) to try to get out of a ticket. Most traffic cop should be ashamed of themselves, for example, come on, a 80 in a 65 down a huge hill an a 3 mile straight with absolely no egress on either side (completely fenced)is just plain stupid. Yes it is the law, but that was not unsafe. And don't tell me that the vast majority of cops don't break the speed limit almost every time they their personel vehicles, they know they can get out of almost any ticket. Also I'm sorry but this is still a free country and if I am am being stopped for this kind of minor stuff and he has done his check he can stop acting like some asshole holyer than thow dickhead. It's my road as much as his, maybe more I pay more taxes. Safety is the name of the game most of the time a warning is enough. IMHO
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Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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worm~hole
Needs a life
Miles to go before I sleep....
Posts: 10623
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posted September 03, 2002 11:58 AM
Edited By: worm~hole on 3 Sep 2002 13:05
...lemme clear up a fallacy for some of you who aren't in the know...most, if not all cops assigned to the traffic division are there because they WANT to be there...law enforcement work covers the gamut and has become specialized in many areas due to population growth, technology, expectations, etc. (you get the idea...look at your own company where you work and see how many tasks one person can do effectively...and see why the tasks were split up, or 'specialized')...
...most police agencies require a cop to spend at least two years on regular patrol before being SELECTED for a specialized position (ei. traffic, K9, SWAT, Air-Support, etc.), ...all cops cut their teeth on regular patrol...if anything, if you don't make it on patrol, you won't make it anywhere...
...some cops CHOOSE to be on patrol for their entire career because that's where they CHOOSE to be (where the everyday action is, so to speak)...unless the department forces the cop to move for 'career enhancment'...
...some cops CHOOSE to go the adminitrative route and land a desk job or a behind the scenes mangement job...they also get to lead 'normal' lives, more or less, with normal schedules like everybody else out there...(the only time I get to watch 'Everyone Loves Raymond' is when I call in sick or was scheduled a class which allowed me to stay home at night)...
..well, I think you guys get the idea....that being said, just remember: when you tell a traffic cop 'Go fight real crime', know that the traffic officer HAS fought 'real crime', has already proven him/herself worthy for the CHOSEN/SELECTED assignment (in this case TRAFFIC DIVISION)...and traffic enforcement...THE ENFORCEMENT OF A TRAFFIC VIOLATION IS THE CRIME OF THE MOMENT FOR THE TRAFFIC COP...and you can best be assured that the cop wil be doing his/her DAMNDEST to do the job, and do the job right...whether you-who-got-your-hand-caught-in-the-cookie-jar believe it or not...did you know that traffic cops pass over non-traffic incidents to regular patrol dogs and vice versa?...that's how the business works...
...so now you know a little bit more about how it is 'in the business' (well, at least for the larger departments)...its not like you see on TV or in the movies...just hope you don't get stopped by a traffic cop, either on a motor or a slick-top, who happens to be a dick...if so, I pity you, then ...class over for now...now, go take yer' chances ...
____________
“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
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posted September 03, 2002 12:31 PM
hmmm...interesting (and unexpected) fact. i cant imagine why someone would choose traffic tho.
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TedG
Moderator
Posts: 8222
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posted September 03, 2002 01:38 PM
Edited By: TedG on 3 Sep 2002 17:26
[quote just remember: when you tell a traffic cop 'Go fight real crime', know that the traffic officer HAS fought 'real crime', has already proven him/herself worthy for the CHOSEN/SELECTED assignment
So a highway patrolmans first assignment is street cop??? I don't think so. The only time they aren't giving tickets is when thay are hitting the Krispie Kreme which by the way is one block from the NHP office. They have to let their nuts cool off from all the radar. They should let them fry so they wont procreate. Also let me clarify, the cops in Reno/Sparks are for the most part awesome. They treat most like human beings, for example: I was doing 35ish down a 4 lane 25 mph road and instead of getting pulled over the cop just flashed his red lights....I got the hint. Was that so hard??? You threat those guys like human beings and they respond. Let some asshole screw with a kid on Halloween and see what happens. Those guys are out with pumpkins on their lights and giving out candy. Making sure my kid is safe. On the other hand the NHP is pestering some poor schmuck on the way to work with a fake work zone. Low lifes scumbags. IMHO
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Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
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posted September 03, 2002 02:44 PM
just occurred to me that this whole cops hate thing is yet another case of misplaced anger. which is to say we should b gettin pissed at hte people who give the cops their orders & make the BS laws. when i read abotu the construction zone thing, somehow it reminded me of all the people who yelled at me when i worked as a cashier in canadian tire many moons ago (it's a car parts & hardware chain in canada). it was usually cause we didnt have an advertised special in stock (we were FAMOUS for that), or cause the line was so long. suffice it to say i had NO control over how much inventory was ordered, and i worked my ass off to get the line movin and was faster than most of the cashiers i saw (and still see), but when u'r left on ur own on a busy saturday with a store that should have at least 3 cashiers on with the oldest registers of anyone in the city (so old they had NO bar code scanners, had to type every product code in by hand, and credit cards had to be done manually & phoned in for anything over $75), it's a difficult task. how often i wished that those people would complain to the store owners and managers so they would fix those problems. we should prolly do the same for the heads of each cop shop and whatever idiot unknowledgeable polititions r makin the stupid rules.
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TedG
Moderator
Posts: 8222
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posted September 03, 2002 03:17 PM
The problem is there is alot of leeway for a traffic cop to use, it is just the asshole side that dominates their personality. I will say if you are being an asshole yourself then of course what does one expect?? But if you are kissing ass (like me, I mean really bad) and weren't really endangering anyone ...well....
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Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
The fast color!!
Green 2005 ZX10R
2009 Concours Black ABS
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worm~hole
Needs a life
Miles to go before I sleep....
Posts: 10623
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posted September 03, 2002 09:01 PM
Edited By: worm~hole on 3 Sep 2002 23:51
...well, you're right, TedG...the NHP do not get exposed to the street/urban/domestic stuff that other police/deputies/constables do on a daily basis....no, they go directly to traffic cuz that's THAT'S where they want to be in the first place...and THAT'S where they cut their teeth...so, yeah...if you get stopped by a Highway Patrolman or a State Trooper, you might consider your chances of getting out of it slim to none...you get nuthin' comin'..Bahahahahaha
...if it weren't for my K9, I'd be in the traffic division myself, just to get closer to that motor assignment...wearin' that Ponchorillo-tight pants and sexy boots and all...ridin' a cool bike with all the bells and whistles...and lead underwear ...chics would dig it...of course, my supervisor would wonder how come I still have the same ticket book that was issued to me three years ago ...
...or I could be stoic about the job and just do what's expected of me and issue coupon after coupon...piss off the speedin' general public...hooligans all of you!!!!!
...run a stop sign or red light, and you're done, tho...that could've been me that you coulda' kilt!!!!!
____________
“We sleep safe in our beds because rough men
stand ready in the night to visit violence on those
who would do us harm.”
-George Orwell
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