chavcat
Zone Head
Posts: 524
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posted July 30, 2008 01:44 PM
ZX12R Billet Quick Access Clutch Cover Group Buy
I am considering machining a Billet Quick Access Clutch Cover for the ZX12R.
Need 5 deposits to keep the cost reasonable.
Please contact me if seriously interested.
  
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wolf racing
Expert Class
Posts: 138
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posted July 30, 2008 02:20 PM
I would be interested. Any design we can see?
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Never Ever Give Up
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted July 30, 2008 02:26 PM
depends on price Mike. i would love one....
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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chavcat
Zone Head
Posts: 524
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posted July 30, 2008 04:07 PM
Looks like the cost wil be ~ $550 or so. Roughly a 3 week delivery once I get 5 deposits.
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zrexpilot
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted July 30, 2008 06:14 PM
Id like to see a redesigned clutch puller. Do a complete cover with quik access and GS style worm drive puller.
That would be the bomb.
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted July 31, 2008 12:58 PM
I would be interested.
Puller is not the issue in your case zrex, its the set up you are using.......
I would want to see an installed product first though.........
I am not dishing out 550 for an unproven product........., i can get to my clutch in two minutes.......
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
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Kawasaki Sports Center
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zrexpilot
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted July 31, 2008 01:54 PM
 Edited By: zrexpilot on 31 Jul 2008 14:54
NOX so your saying you cant run heavy springs becuse the clutch puller is a piece of shit.
Hmmmm ok I will go with that.
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted July 31, 2008 04:41 PM
I am saying what I said before on another thread, you do not need to run so much clutch pressure. If I remember right, you are running a crazy amount of pressure.
A lock up would really suit your set up well............
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
Catalyst Racing Composites
Conway Cycle
Syed Leathers
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zrexpilot
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted July 31, 2008 04:56 PM
you run more pressure than I do.
That lock up wont even allow you to pull the clutch in at the finish line.
It has to spool down.
Running the amount of nitrous I do, I do believe I need that much spring pressure or a lock-up which is even more.
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted July 31, 2008 05:39 PM
but when it spools down it has less way less static than you, and thats the only time the lever gets pulled. no matter what on your setup, you are pulling in a lot of pressure. with a Nox tuned lock up, you dont even pull in stock static pressure(read less wear than stock). (unlees you fuck up and pull the lever in when the lock up is locked in)
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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wolf racing
Expert Class
Posts: 138
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posted July 31, 2008 06:06 PM
chavcat,
Do you have anyhting we can look at? I am still interested.
zrexpilot,
For what it's worth (as I'm sure there are other opinions), when using a lockup, static pressure (springs) is just to get momentum. The lockup arms then apply pressure as rpm of the clutch pressure plate picks up.
If you are using a lockup and you pull the clutch over the line and the puller actuator arm fails, then it can be a result of too much weight on the lockup arms.
On our nitrous bike (low 8s at 180mph, 130 shot) we run springs at 40% lower than standard and have three arms with one bolt on each and one washer. No problem clutching over the line and no actuator wear.
Wolf
____________
Never Ever Give Up
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zrexpilot
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted July 31, 2008 06:24 PM
I undertand totally what you guys are saying but to say I run too much static is not true. I need that much on nitrous, or go to a lock-up. Problem is lock ups arent allowed in the classes I run.
So I am stuck with a lot of pressure, and that pos clutch puller cant handle it.
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted July 31, 2008 06:34 PM
have you tried running mid to high stack height? like i said, most of a season with no problems running 6 hd muzzy springs. over 100 passes and a few street miles. at the end of the season the puller still looked great...
when on the dyno, did you try running less and less spring pressure till you had clutch slip, then add a bit, or did you just put in a bunch of stiff springs?
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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zrexpilot
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted July 31, 2008 07:45 PM
Edited By: zrexpilot on 31 Jul 2008 20:47
didnt have time to play spring pressure, did run on the high side and it wore almost immediate. was to busy tuning nitrous then I tagged the valves at the track.
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted August 01, 2008 05:24 AM
quote:
you run more pressure than I do.
That lock up wont even allow you to pull the clutch in at the finish line.
It has to spool down.
Running the amount of nitrous I do, I do believe I need that much spring pressure or a lock-up which is even more.
But when you change gears at 20 mph, or pull in the clutch on the line........, you have all that pressure...........
I have a little less, and its easier on parts.........
Only time I have ever hurt parts was do to launching too hard with a Koenig pan, or having one of the bad batches of muzzy rods, but hey, what would I know.
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
Catalyst Racing Composites
Conway Cycle
Syed Leathers
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NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted August 01, 2008 05:26 AM
quote:
chavcat,
Do you have anyhting we can look at? I am still interested.
zrexpilot,
For what it's worth (as I'm sure there are other opinions), when using a lockup, static pressure (springs) is just to get momentum. The lockup arms then apply pressure as rpm of the clutch pressure plate picks up.
If you are using a lockup and you pull the clutch over the line and the puller actuator arm fails, then it can be a result of too much weight on the lockup arms.
On our nitrous bike (low 8s at 180mph, 130 shot) we run springs at 40% lower than standard and have three arms with one bolt on each and one washer. No problem clutching over the line and no actuator wear.
Wolf
For anyone who has any freakin brains....., there is a ton of info in this one statement.......
and to quote Forrest Gump, thats all I am going to say about that.
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
Catalyst Racing Composites
Conway Cycle
Syed Leathers
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shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted August 01, 2008 06:32 AM
Edited By: shane661 on 1 Aug 2008 07:34
I used to always hear a lot about being unable to pull in the clutch with a lock-up. Then we got Racheals turbo busa. The arms aren't fully loaded and it holds 300+ hp, and the lever is still easily pulled in with any scenario we have encountered on the street or at the mile, thus far. It's like 10x easier than what I felt when I tried 6 heavy springs. That is a lot of force, all of the time.
I actually added stiffer springs to it because it was set up very loose for drag race launches on a stock arm with a light rider. That was less than ideal for the street riding and Maxton.
Regarding the quick-access cover, I'd have to see the finished product. I just got one for my 14 and it was close to $500.
Shane
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stuart racing
Zone Head
N.H.R.A . Dragracing.
Posts: 999
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posted August 01, 2008 01:25 PM
I`d like to check out the cover too....
I can pull my lever in at the finish line with 2 fingers, with the way my lockup is setup,(NOX)....
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Life in the Fast Lane..........
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted August 01, 2008 02:20 PM
yeah, the reason guys have trouble with a lock up is because they use too much static spring pressure and too much weight. look at the power level Wolf is putting out and then reread his clutch tune....
____________
01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
|
NOX
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
|
posted August 01, 2008 02:27 PM
I am sorry, I just read his post, and did not realize that he could not use a lock up.........
Still, I would bet that you could take a little static off of it........, there are some other things you could try as well.........., but that is super secret squirrel stuff.
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
Catalyst Racing Composites
Conway Cycle
Syed Leathers
|
wolf racing
Expert Class
Posts: 138
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posted August 01, 2008 05:49 PM
We made our own puller rod in the end and set up an outer support. Not expensive and we now have no problems.
A couple of pics here.
zrexpilot,
Don't see why you couldn't do something similar to help out. The stupid question is when was the last time you change the cover needle bearings and the flat needle bearing between the puller rod and the pressure plate. We seen these cause actuator problems along with:
- Puller rod head is no sharp. Rounded bakc edge where atuator arm connects
- not enough lube getting to the puller rod shaft so it doesn't stop spin as soon as the actuator arm touches
- flexing of the puller rod on a lock up extended puller rod (that's why we orignially made our support
Wolf
We also ran a two step off of it for a while. Rules then changed.
____________
Never Ever Give Up
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zrexpilot
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted August 01, 2008 06:12 PM
Edited By: zrexpilot on 1 Aug 2008 19:21
wolf the first time this happened the rod actually burned through, telling me the thing was still spinning. We then drilled an oil hole in it and milled it down a cunt hair to alow an oil cushion, this helped. I have replaced everything several times except the needle bearings in the cover itself. It doesnt look like its spinning anymore but it still wears on the actuator like if it was being pressed through. and the actuator gets wear where the clutch cover needle bearing are, they are only on one side of the actuator and opposite one another.
You siad you could get a puller support now on the other thread, where do you get this support ?
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wolf racing
Expert Class
Posts: 138
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posted August 01, 2008 06:23 PM
I would replace the cover bearings and see if it improves.
One other thing we did when we had the standard set up and heavy static pressure (no lockup) was we put a really thin spacer between the puller bearing and the puller rod. It mover the head in a bees dick. This meant the actuator engaged earlier and on a fuller part of the actuator groove.
Wolf
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Never Ever Give Up
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zrexpilot
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted August 01, 2008 07:10 PM
Edited By: zrexpilot on 1 Aug 2008 20:12
Wolf I tried that too, I set the clutch pack up high then added another needle bearing and washer, I dont have all the numbers in my head but it puts the the puller height at the low end of the spectrum. It still wants to pull through. Like the actuator is soft metal.
A friend took one of my old actuators to his work supposably they made complete actuator out ot titanium. Thats what he said anyway, havent seen it yet.
I have it lasting longer but the wear is still happening
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wolf racing
Expert Class
Posts: 138
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posted August 01, 2008 07:35 PM
If it's not spin damage then it can only be really high spring pressure and it's over the metal tolerance or, coil bind on the springs so the last pull of clutch cable is just forcing the actuator past where the springs are bound????
Sorry to keep asking, but problems are good fun!!
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Never Ever Give Up
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