fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21895
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posted August 13, 2002 02:04 PM
Poll Question:
Has your stock clutch failed on your 00/01 ZX12R?
Has your stock clutch failed on your 00/01 ZX12R?
If your has failed please describe how...
Poll Results:
 18 votes (25%)
'00 Failed Before 3000 miles
9 votes (13%)
'00 Failed Before 6000 miles
1 votes (1%)
'01 Failed Before 3000 miles
3 votes (4%)
'00 Failed Before 6000 miles
41 votes (57%)
Has not failed/ Does not slip
   
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21895
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posted August 13, 2002 02:09 PM
I wish I could vote twice... mine has failed twice... it now sounds like my Ducati's dry clutch, and it slips....
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kawdawg
Novice Class
Posts: 85
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posted August 13, 2002 02:11 PM
Same here. My fried twice within 5000 miles
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kawdawg
Novice Class
Posts: 85
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posted August 13, 2002 02:15 PM
If your stock clutch lasted over 5000 miles. You need to buy a scooter cause you must ride your 12 like a little bitch
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21895
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posted August 13, 2002 02:23 PM
Everyone please see my thread "00/01 Owners Start Petition on Clutch Warranty? Input needed" http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=1&TID=4014&set_time=
..or just roll all discussion into this thread please... thanks....
originally posted by me
quote:
Well... the members of this site, and LAZX12 and zx12R.org have proven the weaknesses and causes of the clutch failures in the 00/01 ZX12Rs... I for one am pretty pissed off about my (stock) clutch being toasted a second time. People who know me and ride with me kow that I am a conservative rider/ not wheelie prone etc etc.... I have owned MANY motorcycles and never had a cltch failure. Even 4.5 seasons on the Ducati saw flawless clutch performance. Same with my GSXR1100, my FZR1000 etc etc.
To have a clutch failure at 5000kms and again at 15000kms on a BRAND NEW motorcycle is insane, given the fact that this is a KNOWN manufacturer's defect (lack of oiling).
I would like to see this issue taken to Kawasaki, and have them warranty the 00/01 ZX12 clutches and replace the hubs with a working unit. I would like to see them treat their customers with some respect. They can hardly hide behind the veil of the clutch being a "wearable item" with this issue.
If people here are game I would like someone who can organize all of the technical info a little better than I to begin to mobilize this, and start some sort of petition of owners, online here, and spread it amongst the other ZX12 websites. This petition must be complete with owner's anmes, addresses and serial #'s... This has to be totaly above the board, so that Kawasaki will listen.
I would like to see this problem resolved as I feel it is shamefull for KHI to "turn a blind eye" to this issue, especially on the "flagship model".
Hardly "flagship" warranty response IMHO.
Perhaps they will listen if enough of us speak out.
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21895
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posted August 13, 2002 05:10 PM
I am interested in a few things... the manufacter dates of the bikes which failed... how close they are in serial # to each other.... also... was the 12 produced in only one factory... if not... code to break down serial # to determine factory of origin of 12's with clutch failure....
Let's do this guys... sooner or later yer gonna need Kawasaki to warranty something. Let's make sure that they know we have a voice!
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redelk
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
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posted August 13, 2002 05:37 PM
Still have the original basket/hub as well as the original fiber and steel plates after 34K+ miles. Since I just use my clutch to start off from a stop and about half of my downshifts, I figure a shift fork will fail before the basket does. The plates work fine and there is no sliping, but they'll need to be replaced sooner or later.
JKAZX9A19YA006667
Purchased: 04/19/2000
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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slantzilla
Novice Class
Posts: 99
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posted August 13, 2002 06:26 PM
Mine was a very early '00. Mine never slipped, but when I put the Muzzy's "update" in it, it was rattling and the plates were toast. Kaw came out with the update like Muzzy's right after that. My dealer tried to get it for me and Kaw said "Tough shit". After I traded the bike off, the basket exploded about 400 miles later. Kaw told him "Tough shit" too. Funny, all the parts that Kaw told me were not a problem have been changed on the '01 and '02.
____________
"It takes a big dog to weigh a ton"
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21895
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posted August 13, 2002 06:29 PM
I'm not too happy about Kawi's "tough shit" attitude in this matter
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slantzilla
Novice Class
Posts: 99
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posted August 13, 2002 06:59 PM
The guy I traded it too even works at the dealer where the bike was bought new. They tried everything they could to get something from Kaw. No luck.
____________
"It takes a big dog to weigh a ton"
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TurboBlew
Moderator
BUSY DOING THE SCHIAVO
Posts: 4590
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posted August 13, 2002 07:03 PM
Pardon my ignorance, but most of the '00 & '01 owners have known about *weak* clutch issues since April or May of 2000.
I foolishly toasted my clutch at the dragstrip, but I was fully prepared for the consequences. Upon disassembly I found *other* possible weak points.
I called a local dealer and they gladly warrantied the clutch. Of course they installed it incorrectly, but I went 10,000 miles pretty much trouble free.
Issues that need to be addressed are:
-Better oil delivery to the clutch pack. (Kawi addressed this)
-Heavier springs for the clutch
-Not offsetting the last clutch fiber
A few of shadetree solutions were:
-Flat spotting the puller shaft (costs nothing with access to a grinding wheel)
-EDMing the puller shaft 20 thousandths to allow more even oil flow ($30 at any machine shop
-Shimming the stock springs with sparkplug washers. (cost is barely $.50)
-Aligning the clutch pack so last fiber wasnt offset (free)
-installing an extra steel to get maximum wear out of the clutch (5.89 from RA.com plus shipping) (or free)
-Insuring clutch cable had proper slack
High dollar fixes were:
-Muzzy hub kit $300
-Machinist labor duplicating Muzzy kit $100
-Billet basket $360
-Lockup $600
____________
Official Charter Member of the RIDERS OF KAWASAKI MEMBERSHIP REVOCATION CLUB
Also a BadAss Internet Forum Moderator 4 Hire!! Come at me brah!
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swft
Needs a life
Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
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posted August 13, 2002 07:22 PM
Nah, mine's still sitting in the box where I put it when I got the Muzzy clutch!
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ZHooligan
Moderator
Post Whore Extraordinaire!
Posts: 3829
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posted August 13, 2002 10:02 PM
I would have to ask Swft where my stock clutch is. Because I shit canned it at about 300 miles.
____________
To those who do not count their life in years, but in how life
has touched them in the past and how much it can hold in the
future; -- Youth is forever.
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Koz
Expert Class
Posts: 304
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posted August 14, 2002 05:06 AM
Not for nothing but, if you abuse the clutch on any bike it's not going to last. Yes, the 12 clutch is prone to fry if abused, but the 12 is pushing the MOST stock HP on the planet. Here's the question, has ANYBODY experienced clutch failure that has not abused it. I think NOT!
You want to play, you'll have to pay!
Koz
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pat830
Expert Class
Posts: 135
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posted August 14, 2002 05:15 AM
My clutch is fine.
'00 with 5000 miles and my clutch is fine. I ride it more like a sport tourer than a race/drag bike so that could be the reason it still works. If it goes bad, I'll just put in a Muzzy clutch and keep on trucking.
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RS
Expert Class
Posts: 137
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posted August 14, 2002 06:24 AM
Replaced mine with the Muzzy kit because of excessive chattering of the plates when I would leave from a stop. Plates were very dry, but were in good condition. Even with the Muzzy kit, it happens every once in a while. I have pulled the plates to look at them and they have some oil on them now, but could use more to operate more efficiently. Only have 8,000 miles on the bike now and probably had around 2,500 on it when the kit was installed.
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21895
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posted August 14, 2002 06:51 AM
KOZ.... I definetly HAVE NOT ABUSED MY CLUTCH. No dragracing etc... I am a conservative rider and members here can vouch for me... and to Turboblew
quote:
Pardon my ignorance, but most of the '00 & '01 owners have known about *weak* clutch issues since April or May of 2000
Well... I for one had no idea about the weak clutch on the 2000 ZX12 when I bought it... I bought mine in July 2000, and only began to learn of problems when I read about them on LAZX12, well before this site (bikeland) even existed... in October of 2000 my stock clutch begaqn to slip... I had hardly abused the clutch as I was CAREFULLY following the lengthy engine break in procedures... finally when I got a chance to open te bike up the clutch was slipping.
This problem rest soley on the shoulders of Kawasaki. We have over 1500 members here. That's a voice they have to listen to. This is now the largest ZX12R owners group in the world.
A question for someone who knows: How many failures (ie: percantage of total) are needed before a manufacturer must issue a recall? Also, can someone look into contacting the NTSB (is that the right governing body?) If we submit an official petition with names and serial #'s then someone HAS to listen.
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zxlnt
Needs a job
Kawpuke Extraordinare
Posts: 2853
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posted August 14, 2002 11:57 AM
I am on second one at 6500 miles. First one died in green bike with less than 3500 miles.
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21895
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posted August 14, 2002 12:28 PM
149 People have viewed this thred, yet only 29 have answered the poll's questions.
Members PLEASE answer the poll so we can get some real stats on this problem.
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beansbaxter
Needs a life
Posts: 5911
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posted August 14, 2002 03:42 PM
fishantlers:
you have '00 Failed Before 6000 miles up on the poll listed twice.
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4banger
Novice Class
Posts: 33
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posted August 14, 2002 04:39 PM
I followed the break-in procedures pretty closely. When I hit 2000 miles, I wanted to 'try her out'. So I launched at around 4000 rpm from a stop sign, and got the loudest chattering noise in the world! Entire bike shuddered, and I thought it was gonna explode! Scared the $hit outta me. I talked to the dealer about it, and he told me I was being too rough on it, that the bike wasn't designed for 'spirited use'. WTF?? You mean to tell me I bought one of the baddest bikes in world, I can't even run it like it's the baddest bike in the world? I shoulda bought a scooter then!
He offerred no assistance, and said I have to deal with it. I decided that was the last Kawi I'd ever buy again. I still love the 12, but I think the clutch sucks bad. I don't abuse my bike, but I use it within reason. I don't do all-out back to back drag races, but I expect a sportbike to be able to handle occassional hard, spirited use. Is that too much too ask for a modern sportbike?
Anyway, at 4000 miles, my clutch doesn't slip and hasn't failed, but the chatter is annoying as hell when trying to accelerate faster than the minivan next to you. I have a Muzzy clutch kit, but I'm afraid that my dealer will void my extended warranty if I get it installed myself. And I don't trust the dealer mechanics to put it in either. I'm hoping that Kawi won't leave the 00 guys in the dust when it comes to the clutch. I'm somewhat forgiving since it's the first year for the bike, and so far they've only recalled safety issues, not performance issues. They're risking burning bridges with previous customers. I'm already turning away...
____________
Busa/ZX12/R1
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21895
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posted August 15, 2002 07:42 AM
I see that mistkae in the poll... it should read 01 there, but I cant edit a poll.. oops..... people answer anyways please!
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted August 15, 2002 07:55 AM
NO FAILURE!!
I did an excellent oiling mod and keep it properly adjusted, SOLID!!
____________
You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
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kickstartmyheart
Novice Class
Posts: 57
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posted August 15, 2002 09:27 AM
No failure--slips slightly when hot. ? for Psycho
psycho--what clutch mod did you do? I am interested in upgrading mine while it's apart.
THanks,
Mike
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fish_antlers
Administrator
The Truth is Out There
Posts: 21895
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posted August 15, 2002 03:35 PM
Can someone PLEASE post this "oiling mod" with pix if possible so that it can be forwarded to Kawi and possibly incorporated into a service bulliten?
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