halffast
Novice Class
Posts: 34
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posted June 03, 2008 06:10 AM
Wideband data loggers
Looking for suggestions for a wideband data logger for tuning. The WEGO is the only one I've heard about so far.
  
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zrexpilot
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted June 03, 2008 07:01 AM
what bike are you looking to put it on.
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halffast
Novice Class
Posts: 34
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posted June 03, 2008 07:06 AM
'03 ZX12R
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Phantom13
Zone Head
Posts: 736
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posted June 03, 2008 08:46 AM
Innovate Motorsports Dataloggers......
www.AcePerformanceRacing.com
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before Work is inside the Dictionary."
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zrexpilot
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted June 03, 2008 01:52 PM
are you going turbo or nitrous, cause if not, its pointless to run a datalogger on a stock bike. Map it and ride it.
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halffast
Novice Class
Posts: 34
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posted June 04, 2008 03:54 AM
Why is it pointless? Doesn't any bike need the correct fuel/air ratio regardless of mods?
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted June 04, 2008 04:28 AM
quote:
are you going turbo or nitrous, cause if not, its pointless to run a datalogger on a stock bike. Map it and ride it.
+10
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zrexpilot
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted June 04, 2008 10:36 AM
quote:
Why is it pointless? Doesn't any bike need the correct fuel/air ratio regardless of mods?
Yes of course but the supllied maps you get with the pc are just about spot on, you could tinker for maybe an extra 3 hp but nothing noticable.
You can go to a dyno to check air fuel, any dyno as long as it has sniffer, it doesnt have to be a loading dyno. I use James's at extreme power sports, it reads lower than others but I am just after the sniffer. He charges me like 20 bucks for a couple of pulls.
A custom map is really only good for street riding or roadracing, drag racing you only care about wide open throttle, so map adjustment are really only made at 100% throttle, everything under that is useless for drag racing.
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halffast
Novice Class
Posts: 34
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posted June 04, 2008 12:47 PM
I'm a street rider not a drag racer. I'm fairly new to Massachusetts so I don't know who's who in tuning around here. Most folks around my area don't even know what a 12 is (they know the H-bus though). I've seen two bikes here come back from dynos and the pipes were actually sooty they were so rich. Was talking with a mechanic friend who suggested removing the Kleen and going the data logger path and tuning the bike myself.
I started two threads with seperate questions but they both concern the same thing so I'll lay it out here and if anyone wants to help I'll be grateful.
'03 ZX12R California model, I've owned it since new so I know everything that's been done to it. Valve adjustment was done on schedule by dealer, next one due at 15,000.
Fall of last year I installed Yosh RS3 full system, PC3 USB and Muzzy ign. adv. set to about 3-1/2 degrees advance. I put the pipe on first, checked the results. Then the PC3 with the map for a Yosh full system from dynojet, checked the results. Then the ign. adv. Mileage was 11,000. I also cleaned and oiled the air filters but didn't soak them with oil.
At some point (can't say when) I noticed the header pipes glowing red in dim light when it was on the enrichener, 1500 rpm, after a cold startup. Took it off the enrichener, rpm dropped, pipe glow dimmed but not completely gone. This was with the stock map, Yosh map or Akrapovic map. Bumped the fuel up a couple numbers at 1000, 1250, 1500 at 0% in the Yosh map and it was good.
Went for a test ride in the dark, everything seemed OK but when I got back and got off the bike I noticed the headers glowing bright red at idle. The fans kicked on and the glow gradually dimmed to nothing. I had ridden about 1/2 mile in second gear at 2500 to 3500 rpm. So that's where I'm at. If I ride the bike steady state at 2500 to 3500 rpm stop quickly and check the headers they're glowing, when the fans kick in the glowing subsides to nothing. This is in dim light. Also, right at 2500 rpm the revs climb really quickly, I mean it just zings to 3500 even if I'm in neutral roll the throttle slowly up to that point and hold it steady.
I've tried different maps, combining the high points of the stock and Yosh maps, but still have that. Finally I took the stock map and have been pushing the fuel up at 2% and 5% in the 2000 to 4000 rpm range. It got better when I got to 9 numbers above the original settings. The glow is dimmer but still there and it's getting softer at 2000 to 2500 rpm. Stumbles at 2250 rpm.
The headers have a very slight hint of blue near the head and are gold the rest of the way back to the muffler, it lightens as it gets near the muffler. Temp never exceeds about 3/4, no leaks, both fans work and cycle as they should. Exhaust outlet is lightly coated brown to black but doesn't have near the deposit I expect. Like I can't get much color when I wipe it with my finger.
So that's why I was asking about a data logger. Maybe I can tune this out at low rpm without one but I won't know what's going on at higher rpm. Or maybe some one has experience with a good tuner within a reasonable drive of central MA.
Thanks
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KZScott
Needs a life
high on speed
Posts: 7235
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posted June 04, 2008 07:28 PM
thin headers will glow. you are probly fine with the map for the pipe. i bought an LM-1 with RPM kit to tune my bike this yr for na and spray...still havent used it yet tho...
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01 ZX-12R 8.84 @ 156.3 no bars, DOT tires. Pump Gas, NA.... turbo 8.47 @ 164.
00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R street turbo 1: 227.9 1.5: 234.1 Loring AFB
00 ZX-12R LSR turbo 1: 263.1 1.5: 266.5 Loring AFB Worlds fastest ZX-12R
CMG Racing RCC Turbos
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted June 05, 2008 02:11 AM
hey halfast!
where in Mass are you? I have folk in Charlton.
1. as scott says, the glowing pipes ARE NORMAL, don't worry about it.
2. light coating of brown/black soot in the can tip is normal.
3. tuning for driveability with an onboard logger is doable but a whole lot easier to put it on a dyno IF the dyno guy is good.
I would trailer my bike a long way to get to a good tuner...
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted June 05, 2008 04:01 AM
dyno in Mass
rec from Dave Owen (fastest NA Bike)
Rick at Harrys 508-366-1455.
Tell him I (Dave Owen) sent ya...
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halffast
Novice Class
Posts: 34
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posted June 05, 2008 08:51 AM
Thanks for all the responses. I haven't been riding the bike much, just for testing. Afraid I'd break something, especially because Yoshimura told me it was running lean.
entropy,
Thanks for the name. I'll call Rick or maybe go there and talk to them but I'm not completely dropping the idea of the data logger. Just gonna do a little more research on them.
I live in the farm country near Ware but I go thru Charlton twice a day. I also have family there.
Hey, were you ever arrested for disorderly conduct? Sorry couldn't resist.
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted June 05, 2008 11:04 AM
halffast,
you have family in Charlton???????
long time residents or newly arrived???
Don't get me wrong about logging, i am 100% in favor of it if you need it, or just like it.
It's just that logging isn't really needed if you are not racing or/and doing tricky stuff with yr motor.
Actually, I have never been arrested (bor-ing), but "disorderly conduct" is my habit.
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted June 07, 2008 12:22 PM
half i instaled the wego3 on my ninga and ride with it all the time. the system phantom is using is expandable where as the wego is it. for what u want to do you can just add the third channel to the tps and you can see where you are lean and rich and at what throttle setting. that will allow you to ride around and see realtime what it is doing and then see the log when you get back.
i know a bit about the way they programed the 16bit ecu and i think yours is the 32 bit but i am thinking they have a speed density map for driveing around and giveing moderat throttle inputs it stays in it. pull a good bit and you can see the afr drasticly change if it is not happy. it seems the speed density "driving around " map is the issue.
the wego was 400 and i like it and it is enough for me. do you want to get involved with 8 things to watch on a chart and purches all the things to add them then the other unit is the one for you.
the wego3 has a scalable 3rd channel. i have it on my engine vacume scaled like the shop manual says it is calibrated so i see the cmhg reading not volts inputted. i am not sure the other unit has seperat scalable inputs but i would ask phantom that.
too much info is sometimes not a good thing. i am almost done with my ecu mod.
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halffast
Novice Class
Posts: 34
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posted June 08, 2008 04:15 AM
Thanks for the response. I was close to ordering a WEGO3 cuz I've been watching your progress on the other thread. Some of the symptoms my bike has sound similar to what you've been going thru. Especially in the 2000-2500 rpm range.
So, in your opinion, block off the Kleen Air, yes or no? What is this speed density map your speaking of? I really don't want to mess with the stock ECU. Do you know if the PC3 USB can achieve the same results you're getting?
Glad to see you're getting close to the end. You're like a pitbull on this. What are you gonna do with all your free time when you're done with this?
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2000redrocket
Pro
Posts: 1662
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posted June 08, 2008 08:26 AM
i am not sure you can completly fix the 2000 to 2500 issues with the pc3. i bet you can get it real close but i do not have knolage of them. i know they take what the ecu wants to do and adds or subtracts from it. so to a point it should work but from what ridge has found how the ecu does its job it sences how much tps compaired to the rpm and how fast the crank is accelerating to decide if you are just driving or when it is time to start mixing to the a-n map.
if and when you get what ever kind of logger you will see a slight advance in throttle will do xxx on the afr say stock in the 2000 to 2500 zone it will go rich (way rich) open it up a bit more and bam it goes to 12.5 to 1 and works.
i produced a lean spot in the driving map that i sort of fixed cause the big hill lean spot is much better but now i can get it to go 16.5 to 1 pulling a bit of throttle on the flat so i am getting it close. but my point is stand on it when it is 16or 17 to 1 and it all of a sudden goes to 12 or 13 something and pulls away well.
as far a sthe kleen thing. my bike was smoother with it on and it will tell you if you had it too rich by the pop when you back out of the throttle.i have a rough feel now with it out in the 2000 to 3000 and the afr is good. it seems to smooth out making it a tad rich. just do not make adjustments with it on and get it good and take it off you will need to tweek it again.(atleast i had to)
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