supra5677
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posted October 17, 2007 04:16 PM
198 mph with stock exhaust
I read a posting from ZX12r.org.. Phantom posted that the number 320 is stamped on the cams and cam sprockets.. Is this true? Is so this would go along with project 320.. After reading over several post Iv'e come to the following conclusion..
A stock zx12r including stock exhaust would hit 198 plus mph with decent conditons with the following..
1. 45t rear sprocket was on pre released version have proof..
2. stock factory 104/102 cam timing
3. RR ignition ecu mod.. (I'll share alter ignition and fuel most extend to 12,300 rpms to match the 1069 ECU ram air table,
4. From Brock Davidson 5 degrees of ignition advance from idle to 10,000 rpms
7 degrees of advance from 10,000 rpms to 12,300.. ( don't mind sharing  )
now we just need someone with a box stock 12r to try it!
supra
   
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shane661
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posted October 17, 2007 04:19 PM
You mean decent conditions...like a 15 mph tailwind and 2 miles to run? LOL
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Phantom13
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posted October 17, 2007 05:42 PM
The cams and cam sprockets are both stamped with (320) plain as day. If you're looking for documentation of this, I could take some pictures for you and post them here if it would help.
One thing is for sure, if the original Project 320 bike had 18/45 gearing and 12.3k rpm rev limiter it would be geared for a REAL TIME (not inaccurate gear calculators that don't account for tire slippage) 210 +/- mph.
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supra5677
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posted October 17, 2007 07:45 PM
more like 0 mph winds and 1.2 plus miles of run.. Doug M ran 192.302 in 1.16 miles of run on a hot day.. with the above mods I think 198plus is very likely...
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MadMike
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posted October 17, 2007 09:02 PM
need a skinny guy... I ran 196 with a 1270 and spray... ali ran 200 with a gutted 12 and spray... so I dont know if you could get there, maybe... someone should try it!
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shiphteey
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posted October 17, 2007 09:25 PM
I certainly think its possible and am willing to try it this winter (I would need to get a hold of some stock wheels though as everyone will throw a hissy fit with the wheels I have on).
I still have the stock screen and can bolt up all the stock bodywork, even the ram air screens. 5150 can probably loan me his A2 filters. We have plenty of Dunlops at the shop, of course a 200/50 would be "most accurate" for this run.
Doug Meyer ran 192.3 mph with 1.16 miles on a hot day.
On a hot day, I ran 192.4 mph with nitrous mapping but no spray in 1 mile, hot day, with more mods than DM's bike.
Point being, with some more distance for the 12 to really get its lungs working I think its entirely possible. Key is right conditions & small rider IMO.
A.
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shane661
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posted October 18, 2007 03:38 AM
The biggest hurdle is the exhaust. I just don't think it will allow to engine to move enough air. Look at the power curve of the stock exhaust. It just falls on it's face at high rpm, and that is only going to get worse with the extended ecu.
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supra5677
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posted October 18, 2007 04:53 AM
Shane since your one of the best I can ask you.. If Doug M hit 192.3 on a stock bike on a hot day.. then with a modified ECU why not 198 plus on a flyer run?
keep in mind when Y2K did the modded ignition he yielded 6-8 RWHP Brock Davidson yielded great gains with ignition also.. Extend the fuel and ignition maps 900 more rpms to match the ram air map in the 1069 ECU it theoretically should be possible..Of course a rider less than 170 pounds would be optimal... remember the fuel and ignition is cut at 11600 in the ecu the ram air tables extend to 12300..
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shiphteey
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posted October 18, 2007 08:27 AM
Shane, they are talking about adding some timing up top, quite a bit actually if you reread. Agreed though the stock exhaust is restrictive, but adding some timing and revving it past stock rev limiter...no one has done it that I know of so we won't really know how it pulls up top. I presume this is w/out mirrors on a cool, calm day. Definately think its within the realm of possibility, but not probability for most riders on most days.
Where can we find a 115 pound rider?
A.
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shane661
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posted October 18, 2007 08:38 AM
I read the part about the timing. Did you read the part about the restrictive exhaust? LOL
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shiphteey
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posted October 18, 2007 08:52 AM
Well Shane, best of luck with your 186 mph aspirations this weekend at Maxton with a full pipe...
Now where we, ah yes....talking about going 12 faster on a stock pipe...thats right.
JFWY man.
A.
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supra5677
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posted October 18, 2007 03:45 PM
actually as far as dyno falling off with stock exhaust.. If I'm correct stock zx12r wth 104/102LC or ( which is factory spec) or 105/103 ( muzzy spec) should peak at 10,500 and drop just a tad at the limiter..I think Y2K has the dyno chart..
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shane661
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posted October 18, 2007 04:56 PM
 Edited By: shane661 on 18 Oct 2007 19:11
quote:
Shane since your one of the best I can ask you.. If Doug M hit 192.3 on a stock bike on a hot day.. then with a modified ECU why not 198 plus on a flyer run?
keep in mind when Y2K did the modded ignition he yielded 6-8 RWHP Brock Davidson yielded great gains with ignition also.. Extend the fuel and ignition maps 900 more rpms to match the ram air map in the 1069 ECU it theoretically should be possible..Of course a rider less than 170 pounds would be optimal... remember the fuel and ignition is cut at 11600 in the ecu the ram air tables extend to 12300..
Man, you know I am far from one of the best. (I hope that wasn't a dig at me?)...I am more like one of the most average! But other than the stock exhaust choking it off, I think the bike could certiainly do it. I would say that with the mods you are talking, and a more open exhaust, it is 100% do-able!
I'd also like to add...track conditions are very much a variable, and I am basing my thoughts on what I have personally seen at Maxton over the last 12 months.
I am a huge fan of the 12R..I just try to be more of a "realist", I suppose....
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supra5677
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posted October 19, 2007 06:59 AM
Not trying to dig at you at all.. You are one of the best at top speed testing.. As I recall 205.5 mph on a n/a/ zx12r!!! Incredible.. I believe that DM said it was "heresy"
But as far as distance I'm speaking in terms of 1.2 miles or more, an oval track would be better. To date the ONLY restriction we have found in the ECU is the ram air extending to 12349 and the ignition and fuel being cut off at 11600. The ECU also pulls timing after a certain rpm as a soft rev limiter..
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entropy
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posted October 19, 2007 07:34 AM
quote:
actually as far as dyno falling off with stock exhaust.. If I'm correct stock zx12r wth 104/102LC or ( which is factory spec) or 105/103 ( muzzy spec) should peak at 10,500 and drop just a tad at the limiter..I think Y2K has the dyno chart..
hp falls more than a "tad" after 10.5 with OEM exhaust.
here are before and after dyno curves of my Y2000 ZX12 when i had the Akro put on
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supra5677
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posted October 19, 2007 07:40 AM
ok.. add 7 degrees of advance after 10,500 and it should flat line to limiter...
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VincentHill
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posted October 19, 2007 08:09 AM
At Daytona, we pulled some timing out for top end! Advance can actually hold you back. Now to pull out of the corners, Timing is good!
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KZScott
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posted October 19, 2007 08:38 AM
OK guys, quit talkin about it and TRY it 
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00 ZX-12R 8.62 @ 165.2 no bars, slicks, Pump Gas, 55 shot.... turbo 8.32 @173
00 ZX-12R Fastest NA Kawasaki in the world 1: 222.046 1.5: 226.390 Loring AFB
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dougmeyer
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posted October 19, 2007 09:12 AM
All that timing is counter productive for top speed.
IMHO, 198 with a stock exhaust is probably possible but everything would have to be perfect . Great air and traction, lot's of room.
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entropy
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posted October 19, 2007 09:16 AM
quote:
ok.. add 7 degrees of advance after 10,500 and it should flat line to limiter...
not to be cynical, but i doubt that you'll run flat line to the limiter.
My stock curve above was run with 5 degrees of ign adv via a Muzzy mech adv.
But like KZ says, TRY IT!!!
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supra5677
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posted October 19, 2007 09:31 AM
I have a K factory dyno chart showing that.. RR can you pull it up again?
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supra5677
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posted October 19, 2007 09:35 AM
fortunately i'm in the process of getting a bone stock 01 in good shape.. then I can have a good baseline.. How is timing counter intuitive?
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VincentHill
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posted October 19, 2007 01:04 PM
quote:
fortunately i'm in the process of getting a bone stock 01 in good shape.. then I can have a good baseline.. How is timing counter intuitive?
The Explosion is Resisting the rising of the piston when you get enough timing that the explosion is happening soo soon that it is almost fully developed BEFORE The piston is at TDC!
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supra5677
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posted October 19, 2007 01:32 PM
yes but as rpm increases the spark has to start earlier to keep up right?
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VincentHill
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posted October 20, 2007 11:11 AM
quote:
yes but as rpm increases the spark has to start earlier to keep up right?
Problem is When you reached the Point of Diminishing Returns! Firing soo early that the Explosion is resisting the upward movement of the Piston! A few degrees may be good but more may be bad! This issue is always a Compromise and part of that is Fuel economy, Power and Torque
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