wormgear
Expert Class
Posts: 339
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posted August 04, 2007 07:36 AM
Sorry but Ok back to motor oil.....
I'm still waiting for my ABS to arrive. What viscosity does the manual specify for the engine and final?
Also I see a lot of royal purple users here. Some say max-cycle others not.
Anybody have a reference to the actual difference between max-cycle and the regular royal purple motor oil? All I can find is "specially formulated" and a pretty significant markup.
____________
GodDamnit there's always such a big temptation to be good, to be good! (Tom Waits)
  
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H2 to ZX12
Needs a job
two stroke power
Posts: 3674
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posted August 04, 2007 08:23 AM
quote:
I bet Doug gets the 300v at a discounted price 
I'll bet the 50 gallon drum arrives quarterly whether he needs it or not 
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08CC14
Expert Class
Posts: 109
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posted August 04, 2007 10:09 AM
quote:
Sorry but Ok back to motor oil.....
I'm still waiting for my ABS to arrive. What viscosity does the manual specify for the engine and final?
Also I see a lot of royal purple users here. Some say max-cycle others not.
Anybody have a reference to the actual difference between max-cycle and the regular royal purple motor oil? All I can find is "specially formulated" and a pretty significant markup.
Per the owners manual, the Recommended Engine Oil Type is API SE,SF or SG; API SH, SJ or SL with JASO MA. Viscosity is SAE 10W-40. Capacity is 4.2 US qt (when filter is not removed), 4.7 US qt when filter is removed, and 5.0 US qt when engine is completely dry.
Of note: Although 10W-40 engine oil is the recommended oil viscosity for most conditions, the oil viscosity may need to be changed to accomodate atmospheric conditions in your riding area.
____________
'08 ABS Concours 14
'97 YZF600R
'00 ZX6e (rideable but needs paint)
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baboyonabatoy
Novice Class
Posts: 32
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posted August 04, 2007 01:54 PM
I was told by a Royal purple rep that the Max Cycle oil had additives to protect the clutches in motorcycles, The regular Royal Purple would work but you would probably go through clutches quicker
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donnbauer
Novice Class
Posts: 56
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posted August 04, 2007 03:40 PM
Royal Purple.
Slicker than snot and stays that way.
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Donn
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wormgear
Expert Class
Posts: 339
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posted August 04, 2007 08:28 PM
Thanks 08CC14,
I was / am seriously considering using ROTELLA T Synthetic SAE 5W-40
I found a post here
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165074&page=2
I'll copy here the post from a guy who got a response from Shell. The interesting thing to me is at the end where he says it dose not meet JASO requirements.
Damn I was all set to use this stuff. Can anyone tell me how / why I still can?
Here's the copy....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've used Rotella in everything from a Ducati ss race bike,(actually FIXED the slipping chattering clutch problem), scooters, Guzzi, Toyota Prius and yes, my '06 GSA. Here's the words direct from Shell.
Mr. xxxxxxx,
Thanks for the opportunity to respond to your inquiry, and thanks for
using Shell products. (and my apologies for the delay in responding)
ROTELLA T SAE 15W-40 and ROTELLA T Synthetic SAE 5W-40 are universal
oils, meeting needs of many 4-stroke gasoline as well as most diesel
engines. They have performance credentials (API Service Categories SL
and CI-4 & CI-4 PLUS) for lubricating both kinds of engines. Consequently, ROTELLA T can be a good choice for four-stroke
motorcycle/ATV engines.
It's best to consult your owner's manual for recommended oil quality. If
your engine manufacturer recommends oil meeting any of these API Service
Categories; CF-4, CG-4, CH-4, CI-4 & CI-4 PLUS, and/or SH, SJ, and SL,
or any earlier but obsolete category, then ROTELLA T may be a good
choice.
ROTELLA T does not contain friction modifiers that are added to many
passenger-car-only-oils, and it does not comply with all requirements of
ILSAC GF-1, GF-2 and GF-3 (the ILSAC oil specifications are often
recommended by many gasoline passenger car engine manufacturers). That
can be good for motorcycle/ATV use. Friction modifiers can upset wet
clutch operation. And the ILSAC requirements limit phosphorus content.
Diesel engines and other engines with highly loaded valve trains, as
well as transmissions, need extra (compared to passenger car engines)
extreme pressure wear protection, which is provided by an additive that
contains phosphorus.
One negative might be where the engine manufacturer recommends oil
meeting JASO requirements. Part of the JASO requirement limits ash
content to 1.2%. Ash content of ROTELLA T exceeds this limit. Oil ash
contributes to combustion chamber and spark plug deposits.
Best Regards,
Greg Raley=20
Tel: +1 281 544 8621=20
Email: Gregory.Raley@shell.com=20
Internet: www.shell.com
__________________
If you have to work for a living, you're not living.
____________
GodDamnit there's always such a big temptation to be good, to be good! (Tom Waits)
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08CC14
Expert Class
Posts: 109
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posted August 04, 2007 10:50 PM
So what is the "rule of thumb" for when its safe to use a full synthetic? Obviously AFTER the break-in oil has done its job. Personally, I'd probably wait until after a few thousand miles have been logged. Anyone care to respond?
____________
'08 ABS Concours 14
'97 YZF600R
'00 ZX6e (rideable but needs paint)
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girlee
Expert Class
Wile E. 1 - SV650S 2002
Posts: 325
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posted August 06, 2007 05:39 AM
quote:
That 's funny !
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Hibs
Expert Class
Posts: 127
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posted August 09, 2007 12:50 AM
quote:
quote:
Sorry but Ok back to motor oil.....
I'm still waiting for my ABS to arrive. What viscosity does the manual specify for the engine and final?
Also I see a lot of royal purple users here. Some say max-cycle others not.
Anybody have a reference to the actual difference between max-cycle and the regular royal purple motor oil? All I can find is "specially formulated" and a pretty significant markup.
Per the owners manual, the Recommended Engine Oil Type is API SE,SF or SG; API SH, SJ or SL with JASO MA. Viscosity is SAE 10W-40. Capacity is 4.2 US qt (when filter is not removed), 4.7 US qt when filter is removed, and 5.0 US qt when engine is completely dry.
Of note: Although 10W-40 engine oil is the recommended oil viscosity for most conditions, the oil viscosity may need to be changed to accomodate atmospheric conditions in your riding area.
So how many quarts of oil are you guys actually putting in? I coulda swore I only put in 3 quarts during my last oil change, per advice of the zx12r.org crowd. It's been like that for about 5k miles, no problems! kawi filter and fully synthetic valvoline 20-50. bout time to change it again though.
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2togo
Expert Class
Posts: 165
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posted August 10, 2007 05:33 PM
Klotz, 20/50 full syn. Both 14's
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stevewfl
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted August 10, 2007 09:23 PM
quote:
So how many quarts of oil are you guys actually putting in? I coulda swore I only put in 3 quarts during my last oil change, per advice of the zx12r.org crowd. It's been like that for about 5k miles, no problems! kawi filter and fully synthetic valvoline 20-50. bout time to change it again though.
Use the little glass window on the side and put the right amount in. You must be throwing bait like a troll to make such a statement!?
____________
2010 Concours14
'08 R1 YAMAHA
ZX14 gone!
CBR600RR track bike
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Stalwart
Needs a job
Posts: 3360
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posted August 10, 2007 11:02 PM
Inside my Kawasucky ------ Spooge!
____________
Stuart
________________________________
Ridin' the Trump train.
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chad434sc
Parking Attendant
Posts: 2
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posted August 17, 2007 08:03 AM
full synthetic Spectro 10W50.
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted August 17, 2007 03:37 PM
I end up doing about 1 change a year on each except the Durango which gets 2. But yeah, I do buy stuff at a slight discount......
Remember ('cause most people don't), one of the advantages of synthetics is the longer mileage between changes. If you still change your oil at 1 or 2K you're wasting your money.
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nox
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted August 17, 2007 03:52 PM
On a daily driver yes.............
I change my Royal Purple about every 25 to 30 passes.............
2002 model, still running like a mad dog.........., it only gets raced, she has lived a long hard life...........
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
Catalyst Racing Composites
Conway Cycle
Syed Leathers
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted August 18, 2007 08:15 AM
 Edited By: psycho1122 on 18 Aug 2007 09:16
quote:
I end up doing about 1 change a year on each except the Durango which gets 2. But yeah, I do buy stuff at a slight discount......
Remember ('cause most people don't), one of the advantages of synthetics is the longer mileage between changes. If you still change your oil at 1 or 2K you're wasting your money.
Doug; On my 12, I change the oil every 1,000-1,500 mi. I use Mobil1 15w50. I did a couple oil tests by sending samples to (www.oillab.com).
These tests were done with three different oils...Motul 300v, Castrol GTX 20w50 (dino) and the Mobil1. All oil was run 1,000 miles with similar riding conditions.
The Motul's viscosity (50w) dropped to (39w) or 12.1 @100 deg. C (cSt).
The Castrol GTX dino (50w) dropped to (39w) or 12.2 @100 deg. C (cSt).
The Mobil1 (50w) dropped to (42.5w) or 13.9 @ 100 deg. C (cSt).
So even after only 1,000 miles, my oil (Mobil1 15w50), still will drop close to a 40w, so I change it for cheap insurance. Wet clutches are hard on oil.
Funny how the Castrol will hold up as well as the Motul.
____________
You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted August 18, 2007 06:11 PM
No doubt about it clutch slipping will shorten the oil life. But I still think when the use does not include hole shots It's a waste to change it that often.
Psycho, The viscosity test is interesting, but the real test of an oil is how much crap it is holding in suspension. What were the contaminant numbers?
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Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
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posted August 19, 2007 03:44 AM
Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 19 Aug 2007 05:08
Oil is like beer... some like lager,some like ale.
I prefer Zink znd Phosphorus over magnesium and calcium.
If you have a gold wing and change your oil every 8k miles then you should prefer mag and cal, they are like rolaids for your engines stomach, the oil pan. notice how much of these acid neutralizing additives the full synthetics have. Thats becasue they are intended to be in the engine twice as long as regular engine oils, so they need more of these additives.
Neutralizing additives have a finite amount of acid they can neutralize. After that the acid atarts to build up and etch the surface of finely polished parts such as cam lobes. Thats why you should always change your oil after the riding season and not just before.
Change the oil in the fall and run it for several miles and then park the bike for the winter.
This way the whole inside of the engine [cams,wrist pins,gears, etc.] are washed and neutralized for the winter storage to prevent etching when condensation "water" mixes with acids. If you remember from highschool what happens when H2O is mixed with acid and what happens to stuff it comes in contact with.
Also if you change your oil every 8k and go on cross contry trips you need to worry about vaporization rates. That chart is there also.
If you have a high reving engine and run it to redline often and change it every 4k or less then zink and phosphorus should be most important.
So you can see that one oil isnt the answer for every bike.
Bottom line, dont run any SJ or later oils. The feds mandated lowering the content of the "good" stuff in the SJ oils.
Notice how much Boron Harley puts in thier oil. They need to neutralize all that blowby those engines produce due to the air cooling and loose and crappy fitting pistons and rings.
Heres some independent lab testing done by a publication that doesnt accept any form of advertizing in its publication. Its motorcyle consumer news. Not to be confused with comsumer reports.
Here you can download print and read all the pages.....
http://s34.photobucket.com/albums/d125/Y2KZX12R/?start=20
I'm not even going to bother to say what oil i use. But its not an SJ and its got LOTS of anti-wear additives.
Formulate your own opinion on facts.
And the answer to "just use a regular automotive oil"? Dont, they dont have very much of the good stuff that a high reving overhead cam bike engine needs.
____________
Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted August 19, 2007 04:39 AM
Thanks for the great info as always Jim 
____________
Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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nox
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted August 19, 2007 07:19 PM
I like stuff that makes me go fast and keeps me from blowing up.............
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
Catalyst Racing Composites
Conway Cycle
Syed Leathers
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Wii
Parking Attendant
Posts: 23
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posted August 22, 2007 07:24 AM
Repsol 15w50 nothing but the best
____________
08 Concours 14 - 6k HID kit
04 Honda S2000
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harryzx-12
Needs a job
Posts: 3643
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posted August 22, 2007 02:23 PM
Royal purple full syn 20w-50. I've been using about 6 years(i bought some 5 gal cans of it).
____________
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways- Body thoroughly used up, totally worn out...Screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride !!!"
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nox
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
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posted August 22, 2007 09:57 PM
Why do you guys run molasses in your bikes? That is thick stuff..............
____________
42 Wins
21 Runner-ups
2010 TMRC Super Street Points Champion
2010 PMRA Super Street #3 Points
2009 PMRA Super Street Points Runner-Up
6 Time Centerville Dragway Points Champion
Sponsored by:
Scorpion Helmets
Galfer Braking
AMSOIL
Steve's Speed Shop
Kawasaki Sports Center
Mickey Thompson Tires
Catalyst Racing Composites
Conway Cycle
Syed Leathers
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harryzx-12
Needs a job
Posts: 3643
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posted August 22, 2007 11:41 PM
I run 20-50 cause it hot as hell here.
____________
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways- Body thoroughly used up, totally worn out...Screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride !!!"
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted August 23, 2007 06:11 AM
Hmmm....Hot oil does not flow like "molassas".
Have you ever run a Trackday out here in Arizona when it's over 100 deg.? Even KHI recommends 50w at that temperature.
____________
You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
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