kaw12
Expert Class
Posts: 172
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posted July 28, 2007 05:06 AM
neutral light trouble?
2001 12r, 10k miles neutral light wont come on, it works when it wants to, everytime i change the oil, it'll come on for a week or so and then it starts acting up again! any help would be appreciated..
  
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted July 28, 2007 07:52 AM
 Edited By: ridgeracer on 28 Jul 2007 09:00
That is an interesting problem. Actually the bike just doesn't have a neutral switch it has a gear selector switch with seven positions; gear 1-6 and neutral. If the switch had problems the neutral would be the only visible indication. Your ECU may not be getting any gear info either which could effect your performance.
The fact that it starts working after an oil change is interesting. The body of the switch mounts to a hole in the transmission case. The actual switch contacts are inside the engine. A contact pin is mounted to the end of the shift drum and grounds out one of the gear/neutral wires as the drum rotates with shifting.
To be honest the first question that pops into my head is: Just how much oil are you putting in your bike?
Of course you do other things when you change your oil. You could be like me and make an afternoon of it; adjusting the chain, washing the bike not to mention removing the lower fairings. Is there anything else coincident with changing the oil? So If I ignore the oil connection my second question would be when the N light is flaky can you still start the bike in neutral with the clutch out. If you can than it sounds like it would be the bulb/instrument cluster/wiring not the neutral switch.
After that you can go through what the manual suggests; a methodical check of all the switch circuits starting at the ECU plugs then working your way down the wire harness to the gear switch itself. Of course these tests always end up one of two ways. There is nothing wrong (which we already know is not true) or replace the switch.
If it was me I would check the ground connection first. While the engine case is grounded there are all kinds of reasons why every single cover and part of an engine may not be grounded. The gear selector has an external ground wire with a circular wire lug held down by one of the switch mounting screws. I would make sure that it was tight and clean. This thing is kind of hard to get at. It is on the left side of the engine behind the water pump and between the pump and the cover for the drive chain sprocket.
If you do decide to remove the switch to inspect / clean it (the manual says you need to first remove the engine...but what do they know  ) be aware that there is a little spring loaded piece of metal in the end of the shift drum that could pop out as you remove the switch assembly. Whether there is enough gap between the drum end and the case for this piece to fall into the transmission I don't know, I've never tried it, but I would be careful.
BTW if you pull the switch and oil starts pouring out of your bike you really are putting too much in
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kaw12
Expert Class
Posts: 172
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posted July 28, 2007 08:44 AM
Edited By: kaw12 on 28 Jul 2007 09:59
putting in 3 quarts of motul syn. 300v w/filter. also when its in neutral (w/o the light on ) after about 30 secs or so..the fi light comes on, when i switch in gear the light goes off. The clutch has to be pulled in order to start. I checked the ground and it seems to be good. thanks rr.
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kaw12
Expert Class
Posts: 172
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posted July 28, 2007 09:17 AM
((The gear selector has an external ground wire with a circular wire lug held down by one of the switch mounting screws. )))
I'm wandering if that is the one when you unscrew it all the power shuts down??? I checked it..the ground between the pump and the cover for the drive chain sprocket.
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SHIGGSY
Expert Class
Posts: 128
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posted July 28, 2007 12:14 PM
The FI light coming on is indicating a fault code. You will have to start it with the clutch in as the bikes thinks it's in gear (no neutral light), It may be that the nub that touches the gear selector switch is not touching which may be down to the fact that the nub has squared off or the spring has weakened.
So pull the fault codes first. Then pull the gear switch out and check the spring and nub (if your going to do that you might as well order new ones before hand, they are real cheap.)
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kaw12
Expert Class
Posts: 172
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posted July 28, 2007 02:03 PM
easy tips???? may need to install gear selector switch, any help appreciated!!
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SHIGGSY
Expert Class
Posts: 128
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posted July 29, 2007 03:34 AM
Gear selector switch removals pretty easy but pretty mucky and as ridgeracer says be real careful you don't drop the spring or nub into the base of the engine.
Remove the front sprocket cover and front sprocket ( don't put it in gear to remove the sprocket nut, wrap something solid and put it across the swingarm to stop the rear wheel revolving).
Then clean that area up as much as you can before removing gear selector switch, which is held on by 2 (soft) cross headed bolts. Be warned, the top one has a tendency to be siezed up and can round of easy so it may give you some trouble. Also note the orientation of the switch when you pull it out, it's easy to put it back in upside down.
One out you'll see the nub and spring sitting in the engine case, I used thin nosed pliers to pull it out and put the new one in. If you don't want to replace it you can try stretching the spring slightly.
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99libertad06
Parking Attendant
Posts: 10
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posted July 30, 2007 04:59 PM
huh,
i sometimes have trouble shifting into neutral, but i thought it was due to the bike wasn't warmed up yet so most of the time i would sit at a light with the clutch pulled. i even have a corn on my big toe from the leaver. even when i have been riding for a while it is hard to shift sometimes. could that be from shifting and not using the clutch ?
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted July 31, 2007 04:18 AM
quote:
Gear selector switch removals pretty easy but pretty mucky and as ridgeracer says be real careful you don't drop the spring or nub into the base of the engine.
Remove the front sprocket cover and front sprocket ( don't put it in gear to remove the sprocket nut, wrap something solid and put it across the swingarm to stop the rear wheel revolving).
Then clean that area up as much as you can before removing gear selector switch, which is held on by 2 (soft) cross headed bolts. Be warned, the top one has a tendency to be siezed up and can round of easy so it may give you some trouble. Also note the orientation of the switch when you pull it out, it's easy to put it back in upside down.
One out you'll see the nub and spring sitting in the engine case, I used thin nosed pliers to pull it out and put the new one in. If you don't want to replace it you can try stretching the spring slightly.
be sure and clean the inside of the gear sensor, those contacts get grunged. Scotchbite works fine.
tip: replace those 2 famously "soft" phillips head screws with cap screws.
(did you really have to remove the sprocket??)
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shiggsy
Expert Class
Posts: 128
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posted July 31, 2007 04:35 AM
quote:
(did you really have to remove the sprocket??)
Good point, I can't actually recall if you have to. It does give you more room and light.
Why the heck does the manual say you have to remove the engine!?!?
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted July 31, 2007 06:05 AM
quote:
Why the heck does the manual say you have to remove the engine!?!???
bahahahahahahaha
cause of those DAMN soft phillips head screws!
We R&R'd Wideout's sensor and it was a bitch to get those screws out. As a precaution, i replaced the 2 phillips screws on my sensor w/cap screws.
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kaw12
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posted July 31, 2007 03:46 PM
that looks easy, thanks....
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted August 01, 2007 12:19 PM
quote:
Why the heck does the manual say you have to remove the engine!?!?
So you can either A) tilt it 90 degrees when you remove the switch so the little nub falls on the floor or B) shake the little nub out of the engine when it falls in.
Actually you can't always believe everything you see in the manual. In every manual I've ever seen if you trace out the neutral switch wire, Light Green ECU pin 20, in the DFI wiring diagram you'll find it connected to BR/W which is the ignition fused +12V. Only problem is the neutral switch switches to ground. According to that schematic if you turn the key on and put the bike in neutral you'll blow the ignition fuse.
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kaw12
Expert Class
Posts: 172
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posted October 15, 2007 05:01 PM
just wanted to let everyone know that i never changed the spring or the pin in the gear postition switch. but i did flush the cooling system really really good and the the neutral light started working again.
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shiggsy
Expert Class
Posts: 128
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posted October 16, 2007 12:22 AM
That's.....um....eh?
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted October 16, 2007 02:38 AM
quote:
just wanted to let everyone know that i never changed the spring or the pin in the gear postition switch. but i did flush the cooling system really really good and the the neutral light started working again.
musta jiggled a wire or something...
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