bovinespongiformencephalo
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variant Kreutzfeldt-Jakob
Posts: 1060
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posted May 10, 2007 09:28 PM
In the years since 9/11 the bastards have been busy elswhere, and haven't had the opportunity to launch a major terror attack on the US. Just how fucking badly do you blueford types want the US out of Iraq so they can have a free for all funded by billions of petrodollars. Hmmmmm? President Hillary? No fucking way is that possible. 50% of voters would re-elect Bush before they cast a ballot for that fat cunt.
  
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pmkin10r
Expert Class
Posts: 191
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posted May 11, 2007 12:33 AM
To my mind we've been played the fool in Iraq. From bs intel disseminated by self serving Iraqi emigrants, to the self serving shia gangster run government were compelled to support. Kinda nice to know your tax dollars are going to train and equip shia death squads. Now how did Bush put it; fool me once shame on you, fool me twice... That said I don't believe Bush to be a malicious insensitive man. I do however believe he is misguided by sincere and laudabile convictions in what should be viewed as a Machiavelian endeavor. It does appear that U.S. policy in Iraq is shifting, deals have apparently been cut with Sunni tribal leaders in efforts to get them to confront and evict Al Qaida from Sunni territories with some apparent success. I believe this signals the end of the notion of a centrally united Iraq, and the ultimate escalation of a proxy U.S. Iranian war.
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BobC
Pro
Posts: 1736
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posted May 11, 2007 01:35 AM
I'm not offering an opinion on the Iraq invasion right or wrong but I'd like to point out that the lessons of history demonstrate that when a controlling regime is removed the power vacuum created always leads to civil unrest of one kind or another. That can sometimes be a bigger problem than the original reason to invade.
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bigdtd
Needs a job
Interceptors
Posts: 4209
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posted May 11, 2007 04:26 AM
iraq is going to be a staging area for taking out the next lunatic in the region. in case you have been sleeping iran is next, you haven't seen anything yet
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blueford
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Posts: 2984
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posted May 11, 2007 07:38 AM
 Edited By: blueford on 11 May 2007 08:52
quote:
To my mind we've been played the fool in Iraq. From bs intel disseminated by self serving Iraqi emigrants, to the self serving shia gangster run government were compelled to support. Kinda nice to know your tax dollars are going to train and equip shia death squads. Now how did Bush put it; fool me once shame on you, fool me twice... That said I don't believe Bush to be a malicious insensitive man. I do however believe he is misguided by sincere and laudabile convictions in what should be viewed as a Machiavelian endeavor. It does appear that U.S. policy in Iraq is shifting, deals have apparently been cut with Sunni tribal leaders in efforts to get them to confront and evict Al Qaida from Sunni territories with some apparent success. I believe this signals the end of the notion of a centrally united Iraq, and the ultimate escalation of a proxy U.S. Iranian war.
Wow that's a relief, a thinking mind, make sure you wear a good helmet when you ride.
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted May 11, 2007 07:53 AM
They do not need Iraq for staging, they have Iran who will even support them and then they have "AGAIN" Afganstain because we have been down on our job there and they have MADE a come back.
SOme of you think our guys are brainless and Dumb! 99% of them over there know exactly what the deal is and are just trying to have small victories like saving a store or lights on in a school or 1 night no one killed. Do not make it wors by trying to say that they are dying for "Democracy" ! They have no choice they do what they are told to do and that is why we are trying to get the person telling them to stay (Mr. Bring it on Himself and they did) to say it is OK to come home! A general in the pentagon TODAY THIS MORNING said he needed more troops in his area and was not getting them!.
PLEASE, Let us all stay friends here and do what we can to make sure that the lowest number of troops die over there!
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Megabyte
Pro
Posts: 1047
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posted May 11, 2007 10:25 AM
Food for thought!
I found this on the Internet, but lost the URL
Why be in Iraq
In this increasing conflict between Islamic fundamentalism and the civilized world, it is an absolute military necessity that America have a robust network of bases located at the center of mass of the Islamic world. If you clear you mind of either wishing for a lasting peace or hoping for an early victory, and simply look at the map of the Middle East you will know the road ahead is long, brutal and filled with hard choices.
If you can assume a military cast of mind, ask yourself, "What must we do to prevail in a war that is global but centered in the Middle East, and can possibly last for 20 years?" One of the most immediate answers is that you need to control significant amounts of real estate at the core of the struggle. Given the nature of the war, nothing else will answer across a long struggle. It is close to a certainty that this answer first appeared in the minds of professional military men around noon on September 11, 2001.
To the question of which nation a military mind would choose to conquer in the Middle East, Iraq is the only one that answers. Following the capture of Afghanistan, the map together with tactical realities dictates that Iraq be conquered by, and remain under the control of, the United States into the indefinite future for five core reasons:
o 1) The conquest of Iraq could be easily achieved.
No American military professional likes a costly victory. Iraq in 2002 was, by any measure, the country that could be taken with the smallest cost in American and civilian lives. Of the rotten apples in the bin, it had the deepest rot in all aspects of its military and political structures. Given the long history of defiance against the United Nations, it was also possible to bring other countries into the effort, as was done.
Saudi Arabia was, and is, an ostensible ally. It is also, given the House of Saud's global influence, currently untouchable in political terms. Positioning to Saudi Arabia's flank was, however, desirable. Syria, essentially landlocked and not really much of a prize in terms of resources, was clearly not worth the candle. You could conquer Syria, but if you did, what would you have? Nothing significant in either strategic or political terms. And you risked an alliance between Saddam and Iran -- an updated Hitler-Stalin pact.
Iran was (and daily becomes) a tougher nut to crack and would have been, absent a change in the general American approach to war, a long struggle that still would have left Iraq in play. And neither Syria, Saudi Arabia, nor Iran possessed the key resource of the region
o 2) Iraq is the "high ground" of the middle-east.
Iraq borders Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Iran -- the centers of our enemy's military, financial and demographic strength. Our present advantage of being able to strike in any direction at any time with sufficient stores of supplies and munitions on hand, requires that these core states place themselves on permanent alert and in a defensive posture. This draws down the resources that can be used to create mischief elsewhere. In the event of a full-scale struggle in that region, land air bases that sortie in many directions at once, including the ability to land and refuel and rearm in Isreal is a trump card. Large concentrations of armor on the ground also add to the force that can be rapidly brought to bear.
In addition, control of Iraq compels hostile elements to move trained forces into the killing zones of Iraq to deny the United States a fait accompli. While our losses in Iraq have not been insignificant, the loses of our enemies exceeds ours by many orders of magnitude. The only hope for victory by our enemies is through a political attrition within the United States. The real attrition on the ground runs against him as long as he sends more forces to the fight. That rate of attrition will only increase with the coming end of the "patty-cake" phase on the part of American forces. This will become more brutally apparent after the November elections, or a second strike on US home soil, whichever comes first. In the event of the latter, the civilian populations of these countries will also come under attack as the United States shifts fully out of the current moderate war posture.
o 3) Control of Iraq completes the encirclement of Iran.
With fortified US bases in Iraq, Afghanistan and Turkey, Iran is bracketed and can, if necessary, be taken out of play as a military threat if not a political one. Iraq knows this which is why it is so desperate to bring its atomic weapons on line. They will, alas, not avail Iran, but are the only option open to that government short of capitulation. That this fact is tending towards a tragic end is clear.
o 4) Control of Iraq permits protection and control the Saudi oil fields without being "in" Saudi Arabia.
Regardless of the evil nature of the House of Saud, it does not threaten the world with incipient economic disaster. An Islamic fundamentalist government would be a very different animal. With no connections to the West and yearning for a 9th century way of life, such a government would have both the power and the will to plunge the world into an extended economic depression that would make the Great Depression look like roughing it for a weekend in a national park.
Much like nuclear weapons, it has been so long since the world has had a sustained and devastating economic collapse, there is little cultural memory of how grisly such a situation can become. Like nuclear weapons detonated in the atmosphere, we do not need a live demo of such a world-wide collapse in order jog our memory.
Reducing our need for oil is a nice goal, but it will also take the better part of 20 years if it was launched today. Oil reduction is not a strategic possibility in the short term.
While it may be too late to prop up the House of Saud, the world will need be able to control and maintain the oil fields should that government be overthrown. The only means by which this can be done is through a rapid and decisive military response into Saudi Arabia. A period of three to six months for a buildup of men, munitions, and supplies to do this will be unacceptable and disastrous. The Saudi oil fields need to be secured within two weeks. The only power capable of this is the United States military and that only if it is already supplied, on the ground, and able to respond.
o 5) Control of Iraq is not about the oil, it's about the water.
To be able to alter and control the facts on the ground in the Middle East across a ten to twenty year period, Iraq is essential in a way that again becomes obvious from merely looking at the map of the country. It was popular among the Left to say, in the buildup to the war, that "It's About the Oil." As is often the case, they were wrong. Oil is an important resource in Iraq but it is not the most important resource that Iraq controls.
What Iraq has that Iran, Syria, and Saudi Arabia do not is not oil, but fresh water. In fact, Iraq has almost all of the fresh water in the region. It is water that determines life in the Middle East and there's not a lot of it. The two largest rivers, Tigris and Euphrates, flow down the core of Iraq before bending towards Iran to share those waters briefly with Iran before meeting the ocean. No other country gets so much of a taste unless Iraq agrees. Iran has little fresh water as does Syria. Saudi Arabia has almost none. It is one thing to control oil fields. The wealth from that resource can buy desalination plants that give your expanding population the water to survive. If the oil tap is cut off, the economies of the west would begin to wither and die within three months. Cut off water and populations begin to die within three days.
Given these five reasons derived from the facts on the ground in late 2004, it would be suicidal for the United States to withdraw militarily from Iraq for at least ten years and probably 20. The level of forces needed to maintain control can fluctuate as the situation dictates, but the presence of significant forces is a necessity.
This is not to say that the United States will not withdraw, but only to underscore the price of such foolishness. The United States has, through bad politics, misdirection and clouded thinking, made monstrous errors of judgment in the past and is certainly capable of doing so in the future. It is only to say that should we, through a posturing for mere political power at home, cede military control of Iraq and hence the Middle East before the matter of Islamic fundamentalism is settled, and the Islamic cultures fully assimilated into the 21st century, departure early would only require our subsequent return. And that return will be far more bloody and necessary than anything seen to date in what is still a brush-fire war.
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted May 11, 2007 11:23 AM
Mega, Most of us understand this a little and if we had true leadership we would have gone in there right to begin with and not be in the situation we are right now!
The person that made these decisions Bankrupted 4 Oil companies sold Sammy Solsa and how ever you slice it, did not serve his country well whjile he was in Uniform. A person like John McCain would have do a LOT better and we would not be where we are right now. So whose fault is all of this? (You know my answer)
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bigdtd
Needs a job
Interceptors
Posts: 4209
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posted May 11, 2007 11:52 AM
Billary
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Megabyte
Pro
Posts: 1047
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posted May 11, 2007 11:53 AM
quote:
Mega, Most of us understand this a little and if we had true leadership we would have gone in there right to begin with and not be in the situation we are right now!
The person that made these decisions Bankrupted 4 Oil companies sold Sammy Solsa and how ever you slice it, did not serve his country well whjile he was in Uniform. A person like John McCain would have do a LOT better and we would not be where we are right now. So whose fault is all of this? (You know my answer)
I have to sadly agree w/u.
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We First make our habits and then our habits make us.
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harryzx-12
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Posts: 3643
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posted May 11, 2007 12:52 PM
Blueford - I wish i had a time machine..... cause i go back in time and pay your daddy to jack you off on a wall and let the flies eat you.  you and your opinion!
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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways- Body thoroughly used up, totally worn out...Screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride !!!"
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harryzx-12
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Posts: 3643
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posted May 11, 2007 12:53 PM
Good video Red!
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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways- Body thoroughly used up, totally worn out...Screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride !!!"
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted May 11, 2007 01:19 PM
quote:
Blueford - I wish i had a time machine..... cause i go back in time and pay your daddy to jack you off on a wall and let the flies eat you. you and your opinion!
Harry, you are so Diplomatic   ! You just go to the bottom line first shot!
BTW, was that picture MM Put up really you 
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blueford
Needs a job
Posts: 2984
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posted May 11, 2007 01:39 PM
quote:
Blueford - I wish i had a time machine..... cause i go back in time and pay your daddy to jack you off on a wall and let the flies eat you. you and your opinion!
Okay deal, If I can go back and liberate the 400,000 gallons of Häagen-Dazs ice cream you snorted up your nose! Yeah, cupcake I've seen your handsome mug.
What don't you agree with?
I'm a moderate Republican, if it was possible I'd stay in Iraq for how ever long it takes. But that's not possible because of domestic politics!
So genius, what do you do, stay in Iraq taking casualties until the next presidential election and make the Republican Party as extinct as the Dodo bird with Nancy Pelosi and Hillary and the black boy dancing and laughing and partying it up with all the money they'll get from me with their new taxes?
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old guy
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted May 11, 2007 05:10 PM
Edited By: old guy on 11 May 2007 18:12
Great Stuff. Alot of kids from my neck of the woods are over there.
quote:
I'm not offering an opinion on the Iraq invasion right or wrong but I'd like to point out that the lessons of history demonstrate that when a controlling regime is removed the power vacuum created always leads to civil unrest of one kind or another. That can sometimes be a bigger problem than the original reason to invade.
Too true. The "Fertile Crescent" has been a battleground all through history. What makes us think it will be any different because we are there. Or any different when we leave...,however it happens.
"History repeats its self because Old Men think it will be different this time for their goals are true."
Old Roman saying.
And maybe americans should look at whet happened to the Roman Empire. Its our turn next..., And that scares the crap out of us.
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Living the good life...,
On a XZ !!!!!
Tsukigi stainless full system
pcIII w/custom map
NO freakin flies!!
GP suspension forks
Penske rear shock
Rich's custom seat
And a whole bunch of other stuff.
97 zx6r full race bike with all the
good stuff
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flyboy
Pro
Posts: 1536
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posted May 12, 2007 10:31 PM
Brought a tear to my eye... then I sent it on to thirty other people.
Thanks for sharing.
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'There's more living in five minutes flat-out on a bike than some men have in an entire life'.
"The World's Fastest Indian"
One fast red ZX-14,
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One faster red and white Cessna Turbo 210
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mike1024
Expert Class
Posts: 172
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posted May 14, 2007 08:01 PM
Fuck Islam, Iraq, Bush, Kerry, Clinton, Rumsfeld, and Saddam. Too many lives lost for absolutely nothing. I was former USMC, and have nothing but contempt for this wretched president, and his administration of ignorance, folly, and foolishness. There was never, isnt, and will not be, any progress towards a democratic iraq. Mission failed. Miserably. Numerous friends of mine are dead because of this plunder in foolishness.
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xtro
Expert Class
Posts: 112
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posted May 14, 2007 10:11 PM
we are caught up in this shit too .. it's like going to the bar with the big guy .. he ALWAYS gets in a fight .. and your just trying to get drunk .. now what ??
cut and run ?? F no !! .. but I don't think the world or us up north are interested to be at war with everything !!..
how about making a fuck bomb .. or and mushroom party ?? for F sakes !! .. it ALL suxs .. did you know that if you talk about it .. it happens ?? self fullfilling promices ..
STOP IT !! .. we got a black eye now too !!!
so flame me all you want ..
I AM CANADIAN ! and damn it .. I think prmoting peace .. and doing it in the face of indifference takes more courage .. and everything else .. but it does NOT promote the same intent or words that any kinda 'war' on everything does ..
just my 2-cents .. but since it's canadian peso's .. I don't expect it to go far ..
ride free my friends
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F_Sik
Expert Class
Posts: 121
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posted May 15, 2007 07:42 AM
thats powerful
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As long as y'all don't have any kryptonite/I'm gonna be alright.
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blueford
Needs a job
Posts: 2984
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posted May 16, 2007 10:01 AM
quote:
we are caught up in this shit too .. it's like going to the bar with the big guy .. he ALWAYS gets in a fight .. and your just trying to get drunk .. now what ??
cut and run ?? F no !! .. but I don't think the world or us up north are interested to be at war with everything !!..
how about making a fuck bomb .. or and mushroom party ?? for F sakes !! .. it ALL suxs .. did you know that if you talk about it .. it happens ?? self fullfilling promices ..
STOP IT !! .. we got a black eye now too !!!
so flame me all you want ..
I AM CANADIAN ! and damn it .. I think prmoting peace .. and doing it in the face of indifference takes more courage .. and everything else .. but it does NOT promote the same intent or words that any kinda 'war' on everything does ..
just my 2-cents .. but since it's canadian peso's .. I don't expect it to go far ..
ride free my friends
He's a Canadian and Canada is a member of NATO, where all members will defend other members who are attacked, OKAY GOT IT?
So the USA gets attacked from Afghanistan and we lose 3,000 civilians and about 100 billion in damage, and this FUCK now feels it's your problem USA, you cause the problems in the world, not us.
So the brave Canadians want to pull out of Afghanistan because America is an asshole.
NATO is a joke, it's got 2 Chuck Liddels and 20 Paris Hiltons on their period.
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harryzx-12
Needs a job
Posts: 3643
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posted May 16, 2007 11:55 AM
It's a good thing we don't have to depend on you for our defence bluefuck. You're about a mealy mouthed chicken shit cocksucker
I'm not referring to canadians , just you blueshit.
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"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways- Body thoroughly used up, totally worn out...Screaming "WOO HOO, What a Ride !!!"
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jhinderliter
Zone Head
Hacksaw
Posts: 541
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posted May 16, 2007 12:10 PM
Edited By: jhinderliter on 16 May 2007 13:11
hope all is well the young one in boot camp redelk...
this place is crazy... im considering a cut and run policy back to the smackhouse...
cant help but post one comment that jumps to mind tho...
ALL General Eric Shinseki EVER DID 4 THE ARMY WAS MAKE US WEAR THESE GAY FUCKIN HATS!!!!
peace
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blueford
Needs a job
Posts: 2984
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posted May 16, 2007 01:40 PM
Edited By: blueford on 16 May 2007 16:16
quote:
It's a good thing we don't have to depend on you for our defence bluefuck. You're about a mealy mouthed chicken shit cocksucker
I'm not referring to canadians , just you blueshit.
Harry are you an ugly pregnant women with a mustache?
Are you this guys wife?
In any case, look at your shirt, your mother would be ashamed with you dripping food down your front like a little piggy.
Get a bib.
Yes, it's hard to believe! http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=1&TID=20690
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redelk
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
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posted May 17, 2007 04:46 AM
Edited By: redelk on 17 May 2007 05:47
quote:
hope all is well the young one in boot camp redelk...
Thanks. She's finishing her second week. She told my son in law that several in her flight are getting pulled out and held back. I'm impressed with her hanging in, being 29 among a bunch of 19 year olds. Needless to say, she says PT is a killer. I doubt the fact her last cigarette was at the airport, just prior to taking off, has anything to do with that. 
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-Ernest Hemingway
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brickman
Expert Class
Posts: 294
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posted May 17, 2007 03:05 PM
quote:
click here and be sure to tell others to do the same...
On behalf of the President of the United States and a grateful nation, our country's flag is presented as a token of appreciation of faithful and honorable service.
God bless you. Please be careful and come home soon. I miss you. I love you.
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