addisonzx12
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posted June 12, 2002 02:05 PM
 Edited By: addisonzx12 on 12 Jun 2002 15:06
Head gasket blew! Oil sightglass full, how?
Last Sunday my zx12(1290) blew the head gasket BIG time. Bike was running on three cylinders(barely) before shutdown. Now my sightglass is full, antifreeze from radiator got into crankcase. My question is how did it get there? Something must of cracked or broke, right? Antifreeze can't get into the crankcase without something physically breaking, hole in piston, cracked cylinder, something right? Any ideas/thoughts? Tuner can't look at bike until next week. He tells me it's probably just the head gasket. But that don't make sense to me, with the antifreeze in the crankcase.
  
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madmike
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posted June 12, 2002 02:20 PM
Yes you could get anti-freeze into your oil, your rings are not a perfect seal, there are gaps in them and the fluid could be squeezed down into that cylinder, and flow around the rings, if the head gasket is bad, but I would think it would smoke like a banshee?? but I have never had one go bad so I dont know, will be interested in finding out what your builder has to say?
Mad Mike
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Hawkman
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posted June 12, 2002 02:25 PM
Yes...anti freeze can go into there. A warped head can cause it. If your gasket blew, then that would be enough.
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dougmeyer
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posted June 12, 2002 02:42 PM
You've got a cracked cylinder, I'd guess.
Doug
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zx12r4play
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posted June 12, 2002 08:37 PM
Edited By: redelk on 14 Jun 2002 13:56
Damn I am sorry to hear that, how many miles do you have on the rebuilt motor and how did you break it in. I have about 995miles on mine I didnt trash the bike but rode it almost like I would normally ride it.
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slug
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posted June 13, 2002 03:23 AM
blown head gasket will do it, the head gasket seperates cylinder from oil passages from water passages. when done badly enough, it can leak from whichever place to whichever other place it wants.
also cracks in head or cylinder walls as well, sometimes they are very hard to see....
  
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hott-rodd
Novice Class
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posted June 13, 2002 07:35 AM
Keep you fingers crossed.
Head gasket would be perfect in this situation.
Warped head not to bad either.
Good luck.
Doug, do you think cracking the cyclinders is a common problem with the 1290?
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addisonzx12
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posted June 13, 2002 09:15 AM
Yes, it did smoke like a banshee before she died out, & you could smell & see it was antifreeze coming out the exhaust. Have/had about 12,000 miles on the big bore. Really surprised me when the thing blew too. As I was only doing about 65 mph in 6th gear, about 4,000 rpm when she let go. Temp gauge was at 9 o'clock, oil light never came on either. No warning whatsoever just poof!! I always thought things like head gasket blowing only happened at high rpm, otherwise it'd be just a little leak, not poof.
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dougmeyer
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posted June 13, 2002 11:03 AM
To get the amount of coolant into the case that you describe, that gasket must be obliterated. There is no place where combustion pressure is directly adjacent to the oil drainbacks or the cam chain tower. That's why I guessed that you propbably have some cylinder damage. This would put coolant right into the cases. Generally, a blown head gasket pressurizes the cooling system without putting coolant in the oil. That's hard to do.
Regarding your "Is it common?" question, no cylinders don't break. Something breaks them. Be interested in the extent of the damage when you get it apart.
Doug
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12North
Parking Attendant
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posted June 13, 2002 07:23 PM
head gasket
11,000 miles on stock 2000 12r. Blown head gasket. Not yet sure what the extent of the damage is. I see I'm not the only one. BUMMED
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cowboy
Pro
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posted June 13, 2002 07:28 PM
I took the head off to check things out and now found out that head gaskets are back ordered.Can i use the original one?bike only has 1000 miles on it.
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dougmeyer
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posted June 14, 2002 07:26 AM
I just re-read your post and saw that you have a 1290. I missed that first time around. This is exactly why we chose NOT to do an 86 mm bore. My comments about cylinders NOT breaking were in regard to a stock bore, but I still think something else is broken.
Doug
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slug
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posted June 14, 2002 08:07 PM
reusing head gaskets is bad idea, if it would even work.
most nowadays are made to be compressed once.
once they are compressed, it's done.
sorry....
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addisonzx12
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posted July 29, 2002 03:11 PM
Well my tuner FINALLY took the bike apart. It turns out it was NOT the head gasket, the #3 cylinder wall has cracked(at the very top of the wall). It appears that the reason it cracked was that the exhaust valve head cracked off, also taking out the other 3 valves in the cylinder. In fact it looks like ALL the exhaust valves were hitting the top of the pistons, apparently the valve springs weakened substanially & were floating, never heard or felt them float though. These were STOCK valve springs on the Stock exhaust cam. I have a higher lift cam & performance springs on the intake side(no problem with it), didn't think the STOCK exhaust side would give me problems. Oh, about 17,000 miles on the exhaust springs, needless to say am NOT going to use the stock springs on the rebuild.
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ZHooligan
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posted July 29, 2002 03:17 PM
I have seen a number of JE pistons that have valve marks on them. JE is notorius for to uch taper and the pistons can rock in the bore.
Take a look at that before you assemble.
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swft
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posted July 29, 2002 04:25 PM
As a testament to the stock springs, I had over 16000 miles on my 1270, and no probs with valve float. You said it was a 1290?? Superbike Mike?
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dougmeyer
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posted July 29, 2002 06:42 PM
Edited By: dougmeyer on 29 Jul 2002 19:43
I.T.Y.S.
Doug
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swft
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posted July 29, 2002 06:52 PM
*grin*
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addisonzx12
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posted July 30, 2002 07:14 AM
3mm JE piston kit, not superbike Mike. Don't really get the valve float part either, but you can actually see where the valve heads were hitting the top of the pistons & the exhaust side of valvetrain was completely stock. Maybe what ZHooligan said?
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oldkawboy
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posted July 30, 2002 02:12 PM
Just curious what you had the exhaust cam set on?
Thanks,
Dan
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addisonzx12
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posted July 30, 2002 04:19 PM
The exhaust cam was set at 104.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted July 30, 2002 05:17 PM
Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 30 Jul 2002 18:20
104 puts the valve closer to the piston than say 102.
Did you mill the head?
Remove the block shim?
Are you shure the cam was really at exactly 104 on the exhaust?
The piston clearance is so friggin tight and the pistons so small that the rock is minimal. Even if the pistons were real loose the rock shouldnt be the problem. The clearance on the exhaust side is huge compared to the intake side.
Are the valve reliefs on those pistons deeper than the ones on the stock pistons?
In other words, the valve reliefs on those pistons may be shallower than the pistons in the 1270 kit from Muzzys. ???
Who spec'd the pistons? Did they specify a pocket depth?
Were the blue springs on the intake side and the red on the exhaust?
Was the old intake cam installed on the exhaust side when you put the bigger intake cam in?
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addisonzx12
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posted July 30, 2002 08:43 PM
Head was not milled. Block shim not removed(I think, I will check) Cam is at 104(Craig Hansen of Flo-tec is the Mech). Not sure about the valve relief depth, I think std JE 3mm over pistons. Stock exhaust cam. The more I think about it, the more it worries me(valves floating), I know they had 18,000 miles on them, but that's not that much, right?
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swft
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posted July 30, 2002 08:46 PM
Think about it, there's bikes out there (like RedElk's) that have prolly 30,000 miles on them. I really doubt it was the stock springs.
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Zhooligan
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posted July 30, 2002 08:59 PM
Blown head gaskets happen all the time. You blew a head gasket, it overheated which it should have (it gave you a hint with the white steam cloud, that meant stop immeadeately so you don't overheat me!)The motor overheats and you crack the cyclinder liner. With all of the steam that means you had water in the cyclinder or cylinders, causes another failure and suddenly you have things breaking.
Having blown up several engines with JE pistons I can tell you that there re issues with valve pockets and as stated in my earlier post the taper that enables the pistons to rock. Don't look at Kawasaki and their valve springs look at the performance work you did and the JE pistons.
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