VincentHill
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posted April 16, 2007 10:16 AM
OT Crazy Gunman at VIrginia Tech
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/16/vtech.shooting/index.html
Killed 21 today and he is supposed to be dead now himself!
What is this place coming to?
  
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stevewfl
Moderator
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posted April 16, 2007 10:47 AM
quote:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/16/vtech.shooting/index.html
Killed 21 today and he is supposed to be dead now himself!
What is this place coming to?
+1
?????
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shane661
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posted April 16, 2007 11:10 AM
 Edited By: shane661 on 16 Apr 2007 12:11
Now they are saying 31.....what a tragedy.
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H2 to ZX12
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posted April 16, 2007 01:23 PM
now death toll at 33 with 29 wounded. can you say asault rifle? anyone care to justify thier existence outside of military service?
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shane661
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posted April 16, 2007 01:52 PM
Edited By: shane661 on 16 Apr 2007 15:04
My understanding is that it was a 9mm pistol and .22 caliber handgun.
Sorry to say, it is not about the weapon....it is about the psycho wielding it. Non-military bomb usage is outlawed in Iraq....see what I mean?
My sympathies are with the innocent families and individuals that this has affected.
Very sad.
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VincentHill
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posted April 16, 2007 02:03 PM
Just like the Trash can ads in DC! One siad if it said "Matches do not start Forest fires, People do"! on the other side of the can it said "Guns Kill People, Get rid of the Guns"!!
If the match did not start the fire then how can the Gun Kill someone? It is the Idoit Owner of either of them!
Several people here where I work have sons and daughters in that school! The one guy does know that his son is safe. Also someone said that the guy that did this was "Asian"?? We are really in trouble if they start to do things like this!
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Megabyte
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posted April 16, 2007 02:51 PM
Yes, sure was a sad and tragic day. Blaming the weapon for the mayhem is like blaming your silverware for being fat. That said, I don't see the need for private ownership of assault weapons, cop killer bullets, etc. 15 years ago, I was woken by a burglar coming through my bed room window. Fortunately, I was able to get to the gun in my closet before he was all the way in, and the threat of being shot made him retreat. I can't tell you how thankful I was for that gun, I guess if I was one of the students being shot at today, I'd feel the same way, but then schools are gun safe zones, so there you go... they were innocent targets denied the right to protect themselves. In today's world, I'm not sure that makes sense....
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chuck762
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Posts: 47
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posted April 16, 2007 05:29 PM
quote:
now death toll at 33 with 29 wounded. can you say asault rifle? anyone care to justify thier existence outside of military service?
I don't post much as I just mainly read and do research here but I am tired of people blaming guns in general, magazines or certain types of guns. This is not the place for it but I had to say something.
Considering no one but the military has true assault weapons no problem. A true assault weapon is both semi auto and full auto. What you (and the liberal media) are calling an assault weapon is nothing more than a semi auto rifle that can accept magazines of varying capacity. No different than either a ruger mini 14 or a browning bar hunting rifle. But seeing as how he used a pistol it is a moot point. Semi auto rifles are used in very few crimes. Pistols and shotguns far more then any so called assault rifle.
During the second watts riots semi auto rifles were used by many store owners to protect their lives and property from looters and rioters, so yes there is a use for them besides target shooting, plinking and competition. They were also used for protection after hurricane Katrina by residents who knew the police couldn't help them. They are an equalizer when you and your family are alone when a number of people are intent on doing harm to you and your family.
Why did the police not do anything for the over 2 hours between his first shooting and then the rest? "About 2½ hours later, police responded to a 911 call reporting that shots had been fired at Norris Hall. They discovered that the front doors had been chained, apparently so victims could not escape and police could not enter."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18134671/
Plenty of blame to pass around if you want to point fingers at anyone other than the nutcase who did the killing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julio_Gonz%C3%A1lez_%28arsonist%29 I guess gasoline is to blame here and not the guy who use it to kill people.
What you are saying is no different than some people blaming certain motorcycles for causing speeding, accidents and deaths. Sadly we can't stop every idiot or irrational person from harming others.
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worm~hole
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posted April 16, 2007 06:04 PM
...inhale....exhale....pause....inhale.....exhale....s-s-s-squeeze...inhale....exhale...now that's gun control....
...but on a more serious note, something needs to be done to keep law-abiding citizens safe from these kinds of violence...I don't know what the long-term answer is...but .my short-term answer is to kill the killers now, not later...period.
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stevewfl
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted April 17, 2007 07:27 AM
quote:
quote:
now death toll at 33 with 29 wounded. can you say asault rifle? anyone care to justify thier existence outside of military service?
I don't post much as I just mainly read and do research here but I am tired of people blaming guns in general, magazines or certain types of guns. This is not the place for it but I had to say something.
Considering no one but the military has true assault weapons no problem. A true assault weapon is both semi auto and full auto. What you (and the liberal media) are calling an assault weapon is nothing more than a semi auto rifle that can accept magazines of varying capacity. No different than either a ruger mini 14 or a browning bar hunting rifle. But seeing as how he used a pistol it is a moot point. Semi auto rifles are used in very few crimes. Pistols and shotguns far more then any so called assault rifle.
During the second watts riots semi auto rifles were used by many store owners to protect their lives and property from looters and rioters, so yes there is a use for them besides target shooting, plinking and competition. They were also used for protection after hurricane Katrina by residents who knew the police couldn't help them. They are an equalizer when you and your family are alone when a number of people are intent on doing harm to you and your family.
Why did the police not do anything for the over 2 hours between his first shooting and then the rest? "About 2½ hours later, police responded to a 911 call reporting that shots had been fired at Norris Hall. They discovered that the front doors had been chained, apparently so victims could not escape and police could not enter."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18134671/
Plenty of blame to pass around if you want to point fingers at anyone other than the nutcase who did the killing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julio_Gonz%C3%A1lez_%28arsonist%29 I guess gasoline is to blame here and not the guy who use it to kill people.
What you are saying is no different than some people blaming certain motorcycles for causing speeding, accidents and deaths. Sadly we can't stop every idiot or irrational person from harming others.
+1 on all counts. Thanks for the comments.
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harryzx-12
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posted April 17, 2007 08:31 AM
Too bad someone on campus wasn't armed and skilled to take out that psycho when he started shooting.
I believe everyone should be armed ,that way fucktards like that sick fuck at the va tech could be put in the dirt with the worms where he belongs and any other sick asswipes who think they have the right to kill innocent people.
I carry my american express (weapon) ...... don't leave home without it.
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H2 to ZX12
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posted April 17, 2007 09:41 AM
Edited By: H2 to ZX12 on 17 Apr 2007 10:46
quote:
quote:
quote:
now death toll at 33 with 29 wounded. can you say asault rifle? anyone care to justify thier existence outside of military service?
I don't post much as I just mainly read and do research here but I am tired of people blaming guns in general, magazines or certain types of guns. This is not the place for it but I had to say something.
Considering no one but the military has true assault weapons no problem. A true assault weapon is both semi auto and full auto. What you (and the liberal media) are calling an assault weapon is nothing more than a semi auto rifle that can accept magazines of varying capacity. No different than either a ruger mini 14 or a browning bar hunting rifle. But seeing as how he used a pistol it is a moot point. Semi auto rifles are used in very few crimes. Pistols and shotguns far more then any so called assault rifle.
During the second watts riots semi auto rifles were used by many store owners to protect their lives and property from looters and rioters, so yes there is a use for them besides target shooting, plinking and competition. They were also used for protection after hurricane Katrina by residents who knew the police couldn't help them. They are an equalizer when you and your family are alone when a number of people are intent on doing harm to you and your family.
Why did the police not do anything for the over 2 hours between his first shooting and then the rest? "About 2½ hours later, police responded to a 911 call reporting that shots had been fired at Norris Hall. They discovered that the front doors had been chained, apparently so victims could not escape and police could not enter."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18134671/
Plenty of blame to pass around if you want to point fingers at anyone other than the nutcase who did the killing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julio_Gonz%C3%A1lez_%28arsonist%29 I guess gasoline is to blame here and not the guy who use it to kill people.
What you are saying is no different than some people blaming certain motorcycles for causing speeding, accidents and deaths. Sadly we can't stop every idiot or irrational person from harming others.
+1 on all counts. Thanks for the comments.
I didn't say anything of that nature. I did guess incorrectly based on the number of people killed and the use of Asault rifles in previous mass murders. btw an "asault rifle" would be a model that is available in a fully auto version where a full auto trigger assembly (or modified semi auto trigger) is the difference between full or semi auto like a G3 for instance. I'm not against private ownership of them because a study showed that the ban (Bradey Bill which is expired) had little or no affect on crime statistics.
I do however think (key word here steve) that all guns are originally purchased by someone, usually lawfully, and that some of these guns later wind up in criminals hands. This indesciminate (and undisclosed) transfer or secondary sale of weapons by private individuals to others who aren't legally allowed to posess guns could be greatly reduced by laws that would hold people accountable for who they sell thier guns to by way of requiring the same backround checks that gun dealers have to do. The NRA is an organization that represents gun manufacturers (mostly) and hoodwinks thier members into believing that any gun law that passes will lead to an eventual ban on all guns. The sell you fear at $35 a year or a couple hundred for you "life members".
How 'bout this, sell a gun to someone who is a fellon, they use the gun in commision of a crime or shoot/kill someone and the seller is an accessory to the crime? Of course this would require registration. Any law abiding gun owner advocate should be in favor of laws like these. After all anyone with a carry permit (I have one) had to submit photos, fingerprints, and have an FBI backround check, so what's the big deal about registration steve,
especially now that you feel no one is going to try and take your guns away?
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chuck762
Novice Class
Posts: 47
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posted April 17, 2007 11:09 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
quote:
now death toll at 33 with 29 wounded. can you say asault rifle? anyone care to justify thier existence outside of military service?
I don't post much as I just mainly read and do research here but I am tired of people blaming guns in general, magazines or certain types of guns. This is not the place for it but I had to say something.
Considering no one but the military has true assault weapons no problem. A true assault weapon is both semi auto and full auto. What you (and the liberal media) are calling an assault weapon is nothing more than a semi auto rifle that can accept magazines of varying capacity. No different than either a ruger mini 14 or a browning bar hunting rifle. But seeing as how he used a pistol it is a moot point. Semi auto rifles are used in very few crimes. Pistols and shotguns far more then any so called assault rifle.
During the second watts riots semi auto rifles were used by many store owners to protect their lives and property from looters and rioters, so yes there is a use for them besides target shooting, plinking and competition. They were also used for protection after hurricane Katrina by residents who knew the police couldn't help them. They are an equalizer when you and your family are alone when a number of people are intent on doing harm to you and your family.
Why did the police not do anything for the over 2 hours between his first shooting and then the rest? "About 2½ hours later, police responded to a 911 call reporting that shots had been fired at Norris Hall. They discovered that the front doors had been chained, apparently so victims could not escape and police could not enter."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18134671/
Plenty of blame to pass around if you want to point fingers at anyone other than the nutcase who did the killing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julio_Gonz%C3%A1lez_%28arsonist%29 I guess gasoline is to blame here and not the guy who use it to kill people.
What you are saying is no different than some people blaming certain motorcycles for causing speeding, accidents and deaths. Sadly we can't stop every idiot or irrational person from harming others.
+1 on all counts. Thanks for the comments.
I didn't say anything of that nature. I did guess incorrectly based on the number of people killed and the use of Asault rifles in previous mass murders. btw an "asault rifle" would be a model that is available in a fully auto version where a full auto trigger assembly (or modified semi auto trigger) is the difference between full or semi auto like a G3 for instance. I'm not against private ownership of them because a study showed that the ban (Bradey Bill which is expired) had little or no affect on crime statistics.
I do however think (key word here steve) that all guns are originally purchased by someone, usually lawfully, and that some of these guns later wind up in criminals hands. This indesciminate (and undisclosed) transfer or secondary sale of weapons by private individuals to others who aren't legally allowed to posess guns could be greatly reduced by laws that would hold people accountable for who they sell thier guns to by way of requiring the same backround checks that gun dealers have to do. The NRA is an organization that represents gun manufacturers (mostly) and hoodwinks thier members into believing that any gun law that passes will lead to an eventual ban on all guns. The sell you fear at $35 a year or a couple hundred for you "life members".
How 'bout this, sell a gun to someone who is a fellon, they use the gun in commision of a crime or shoot/kill someone and the seller is an accessory to the crime? Of course this would require registration. Any law abiding gun owner advocate should be in favor of laws like these. After all anyone with a carry permit (I have one) had to submit photos, fingerprints, and have an FBI backround check, so what's the big deal about registration steve,
especially now that you feel no one is going to try and take your guns away?
Not answering for Steve but living in a state that has registration I can tell you how it is.
In a lot of states the person who does sell or has a weapon stolen can be held responsible for a crime committed with it. There are already over 2500 gun related laws on the federal book alone. Every state has a crap load more of their own. Do we really need more? How about enforcing the ones we now have?
Here in california we can no longer purchase so called assault rifles. We had to register them. Guess what? They have already used registration to force owners of a certain SKS model to give them up or sell them out of state after they were deemed illegal even though they weren't at the time of registration. What model is next? Feel good anti gun laws will not deter crime. They only affect the law abiding.
My Ar15 is no different in magazine capacity and operation than the mini 14 but yet it is evil and I can no longer buy a new one here. And to add insult to injury I am now treated like a sex offender. I had to register with the state and I am supposed to notify them if I move. All that just because I own something that some scumbag self serving politician deemed evil.
And I am not even allowed to get a CCW permit because I didn't blow the mayor or contribute a million bucks to the policeman's fund which is about the only way to get on in LA county.
An assault weapon is a scary name the media gave to a rifle that looks like a military rifle. Same with Saturday night specials. So called Saturday night specials are what most people use for concealed carry. Face it, the liberal gun banners want ALL guns taken out of the hands of average citizens. They will say that we only want assault weapons, Saturday night specials, 50 cal rifles, sniper rifles (that Remington 700 deer rifle with a scope qualifies) cop killer bullets (no such thing as any rifle round will go through a pistol rated vest like its butter) hi cap magazines and semi autos taken away. That pretty much covers everything.
Criminals will get guns no matter what. Given enough time they will break into safes or rob gun stores.
I can think of more efficient ways to kill lots of people at one time ( Oklahoma federal building ring any bells) and no amount of laws can or will stop crime. There are much larger issues on why these things happen and it comes down to the people who commit these crimes and their backgrounds. The tool they used is not the cause of it.
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VincentHill
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posted April 17, 2007 01:52 PM
OH Oh, I think I am going to have to agree with Chuck AND "Steve"! What is the world coming to?
If the Criminals really knew that No one had a Gun, they could and would just walk into your house and take anything if they were just bigger than you. I live in Washington, DC where ALL Guns are against the Law and did that help? NO! I have a Grandfathered in Gun and it is legal! a Mossberg 12 Guage Pump with 16 inch Barrel, Cooling rail long magazine, Fold down Shoulder stock and an 12 Dozen Extra Shells with the Short Pistol Grip Handle.
I have 1 Bird Shot and EVERYTHING else is 00 Magnum (12 .32 slugs with a Magnum Charge.) I have no problem is someone breaks in and gets the drop on me but if I hear them and dialing the police and get put on hold and wait around for them to show up. I could not live with myself! If s few students or Dorm Security had a Gun maybe the death toll would have been 3 (2 Students and 1 Shooter.
I was glad to see that the Guy in the Dorm that got killed was a Brother who stepped up to help! Not that he got Killed but he did try to save the Girl from being killed!
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stevewfl
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted April 17, 2007 01:59 PM
Chuck I'm with you and Mr Hill-
I'll add:
Liberals (and others) live in a fantasy land that if big government takes everyone's "legal" guns and we agree to give up the right to defend ourselves and trust big government two run a police state we will all be safe and then we can sing the barney song together :P
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H2 to ZX12
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posted April 17, 2007 02:09 PM
Edited By: H2 to ZX12 on 17 Apr 2007 15:09
quote:
Chuck I'm with you and Mr Hill-
I'll add:
Liberals (and others) live in a fantasy land that if big government takes everyone's "legal" guns and we agree to give up the right to defend ourselves and trust big government two run a police state we will all be safe and then we can sing the barney song together :P
that + you voted for bush = WTF! This country is more of a police state that it was when Nixon was pres.
Steve in a post yesterday you admitted that "neither party was going to take away guns" now you're singing the party song again. brainwashing is a terrible thing 
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stevewfl
Moderator
Posts: 27920
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posted April 17, 2007 02:23 PM
quote:
Steve in a post yesterday you admitted that "neither party was going to take away guns" now you're singing the party song again. brainwashing is a terrible thing
"c'mon man i don't think either party will take 'em. I do think one party actively pushes for tighter gun/government control and we'll see more innocent people die. I also don't think either party wants to ban Jesus, but one party actively supports pole-smokuh marriage and such. "
I still don't think any party will successfully take them. But i still think (note "IF they did"):
"Liberals (and others) live in a fantasy land that if big government takes everyone's "legal" guns and we agree to give up the right to defend ourselves and trust big government two run a police state we will all be safe and then we can sing the barney song together ".
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aliveagain
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posted April 17, 2007 02:44 PM
I believe guns should not be allowed on campus by the students considering the amount of parties with mass quantities of alcohol.Plus a lot of students spazz out because of grades or just from the stress of college life.Every couple of years,we have a jumper who can't take it any more.A recipe for disaster if you ask me, allowing a student all stressed and drunk to have a weapon.It maybe one thing to say a student should be able to protect themselves,but the other 99.999% of their time campus life is usually safer then the real world.
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megabyte
Pro
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posted April 17, 2007 09:07 PM
quote:
I believe guns should not be allowed on campus by the students considering the amount of parties with mass quantities of alcohol.Plus a lot of students spazz out because of grades or just from the stress of college life.Every couple of years,we have a jumper who can't take it any more.A recipe for disaster if you ask me, allowing a student all stressed and drunk to have a weapon.It maybe one thing to say a student should be able to protect themselves,but the other 99.999% of their time campus life is usually safer then the real world.
I appreciate your thoughts, and understand the dilema that makes this a difficult call, but In the presence of an indiscriminate campus killer, I don't believe I know anyone who wouldn't want a weapon to defend themselves with. The students obeyed the gun ban and got killed by a maniac who didn't obey the law. Another example of when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns...It's sad, but that's the world we live in.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted April 18, 2007 06:33 AM
All it would have taken to save 25-30 of those lives is one person in the building with a concealed weapon to take that asshole out.
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aliveagain
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posted April 18, 2007 07:57 AM
I just heard the rumor,Yale,decided to lift their ban on weapons by licensed owners on campus.I'll have to wait and see it in writing.
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted April 18, 2007 01:55 PM
its a damn shame.. as I under stand a total of 60 or so people were shot, and half of them ended up dead.. As a school teacher this especially bothers me because "school" is suppose to be one of the safest places to be.. I'm for hunting and sport but this is just awful.
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twista
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Posts: 797
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posted April 18, 2007 03:04 PM
heres my two cents for what its worth,, evidentally the guy had something on his mind,, and everyone has that magical button,,its just weather or not its pushed in your lifetime or not,,as far as weapons on campus,, they are prohibited on every school ground from K on up!,, that doesnt mean that people dont bring them!,, as far as the full auto post above,, they are available to anyone who meets the ATF criteria (as i did) full auto M15A1,,you must also live in a Class three state,, it is called a Title II weapon,, and requires a $200.00 tax stamp.. if an individual had no criminal history etc..no felonys etc..never been in an institution,, chances are very good they would get approved,, so there is no real way to curb guns in our society,, there are now SHALL ISSUE Laws that must allow an applicant the right to own,, as long as they meet minimum requirement,, this guy just snapped and unfortunately there where what looked like a few dozen harmless looking students and teachers that he took it out on,, we all dont know the full story but thats my 2 cents on the issue,, watch who you fuck with and watch the people you dont know even closer!!
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Seth ZX12r UK
Expert Class
Posts: 238
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posted April 19, 2007 05:27 AM
The lone Gunman strikes Again.
You in the States should never give up your rightt of gun ownership.
In the UK eversince there has been gun restrictions gun crime has gone up!
When you outlaw guns the ones with guns is the outlaws.
One day guns are going to be needed to protect us from govt tyranny in the west.
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted April 19, 2007 07:45 AM
The worse thing to me is they (This university and his previous School, the Campus Police and others) ALL Knew he was crazy and going to do this. Several people even said that. BUT the way the laws are written no one could do anything! He was even in a mental institution but that was not reported and he was allowed to get some guns!
Trust this next statement, It is a horrible thing to know about a problem and not be able to do anything about it! Then when it happens, even thought you tried, it just does not make it any better because you still feel that somehow you should have done better! I really feel for that Lady that was his teacher in High School who know he was crazy!
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