THE ICE MAN
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posted January 20, 2007 05:54 PM
Phantom you had run further than 1.16 miles and had a big tail wind also.
Doug,
I never said you did not do the speeds you did, even thou it was done with big tailwinds also, do you remember the flag at Maxton was at full sail ?? I said you changed sprockets, only because you said it 6 years ago !! must be the old age kicking in, its gets everyone sooner or later, it gets me too.
I was only letting people know what the bike does with stock gearing, my bad to try and help.
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40 Records@ Maxton, Fastest NA
1507cc Busa 223.330 MPH also
Fastest ZX12 N.A.212.846 MPH in
the mile Fastest 1000 750 @ Maxton
& Fastest 600 N.A. in the world.
  
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dougmeyer
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posted January 20, 2007 06:52 PM
Not your bad at all. I said in my first post that I didn't remember if we had the 46 on, but only that we had changed it and kept going back to stock. I also don't remember any wind data being noted, but I've got to believe that I would remember if there was significant wind as that would have caused me grief. Were you there? If so ,you remember more than I do. Were you the ambulance driver? That's the only non Muzzy person I remember talking to.
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psycho1122
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posted January 20, 2007 07:24 PM
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Phantom Menace
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posted January 20, 2007 08:21 PM
THEICEMAN- actually, the run was indeed similar to Doug's. Doug ran coming around the turn clicking into 2nd gear around the start line, then continuing for 1.16 mi with a big tailwind.
I said I ran in a similar fashion... which I did. Both of us had tailwinds, Both ran slightly over 1 mile. Allen was with me, I distinctly remember only going past 2 turnarounds near the 9/10th's ... then shutting down right after.
When you've got a start from a 90mph roll and over 1 mile with a good tailwind, you run pretty good! lol
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dougmeyer
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posted January 20, 2007 08:28 PM
WHAT is all this CRAP about a big tailwind and where is it coming from? No one else ran with us, we rented the place on private time.
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shiphteey
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posted January 20, 2007 09:50 PM
 Edited By: shiphteey on 20 Jan 2007 22:04
Doug, I believe the wind data is calculated from an almanac. It wouldn't be too hard to figure out what time of day a tailwind took place, and approx which direction and how fast too.
FWIW, I have run @ the 9/10...in the "winter" no less. I would venture to guess that out there the propensity for wheel slip would be less! Warmer temps and smoother pavement ..... my supercorsa was looking gooier after runs than it ever has @ Maxton. And having ridden on supercorsas during track days hard enough to have finally lowsided on them after 5 track days I can tell you that these set of supercorsas were "early" in their life when ran @ the 9/10.
Doug, w/the extra grip out @ the 9/10 it is easy to see how the idea of a 170ish HP zx12 made such tremendous power that it was spinning up and hitting the limiter @ 196!!! The magical "196" number isn't just spout off by mysef of the 9/10 folks. Jason McVicar has seen 195-196.xx mph on the limiter on one @ Bonneville. Performance Bikes in the UK published 196 across their cover when they ran the busa and 12 head to head.
If we assume the proposed 2% error rate from gearing calculators vs the real world (regardless of the reason ... for now) then a projected 200 mph on paper would make fall in line with the 196 mph run on the limiter that others are proposing. The fact that it is claimed the zx12 can hit 201-202 on the limiter via gearing calculators puts it just a hair over 2% optimistic....which in this realm is really difficult to accurately "chalk it up" to "this or that"....some of which could have something to do with 2000 zx12 rev limiters varying o so slightly from the factory.
But fact of the matter is the zx12 has been routinely topped out throughout the world on stock gearing/tires as well as several other combinations and set-ups....
No matter what you use (bonneville, maxton traps, GPS, radar guns) no one else has seen 198-202 mph on stock tire/gear/rev limiter on a 2000 model (hell a derestricted one would certainly be allowed to be included in this tally too).
When I look at it, in essense, DM and that 12 went 3 mph faster than anyone ever has on a similarly set-up bike, even with unlimited distance. We aren't talking big turbos or tons of nitrous, we are talking about a 12 close to stock! 3 mph faster than anyone ever is an INSANELY high amount when you think about it given the minimal amount of modifications we are taking into account, thats all.
A.
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osti33
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posted January 21, 2007 05:07 AM
quote:
Were you there? If so ,you remember more than I do. Were you the ambulance driver? That's the only non Muzzy person I remember talking to.
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shane661
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posted January 21, 2007 05:32 AM
Edited By: shane661 on 21 Jan 2007 05:45
quote:
Doug, I believe the wind data is calculated from an almanac. It wouldn't be too hard to figure out what time of day a tailwind took place, and approx which direction and how fast too.
Jason McVicar has seen 195-196.xx mph on the limiter on one @ Bonneville. Performance Bikes in the UK published 196 across their cover when they ran the busa and 12 head to head.
A.
Ok, first: You can't calculate prior race conditions by reading an almanac. You have to be at the track that day, for that run.
Second: If McVicar went 196.xx at Bonneville, and we KNOW there is more wheelspin on the salt, what exactly are you disputing here?
Third: Don't those "Performance Bike" guys regularly turn 11 second 1/4 miles on the 12? Who knows what the conditions were when they ran their bike? Better check the almanac. lol
Fourth: There are way too many "experts" in this thread. I saw on 12.org that Phantom states 17/46 is good for 183. I went 184.66 and had not hit the limiter....on a stock rear tire, no less! So I guess we better impound my bike. Oh wait, Ali was there and saw me set the bike up. Maybe it is a conspiracy.....
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THE ICE MAN
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posted January 21, 2007 06:01 AM
Edited By: THE ICE MAN on 21 Jan 2007 06:02
O.K. if we suddenly have a memory loss I will post this and maybe it will come back to you.
here is your qoute doug,
WHAT is all this CRAP about a big tailwind and where is it coming from? No one else ran with us, we rented the place on private time.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Time temp air/press wind directoin and (SPEED)
9:52 AM 77.0 °F 30.16 in WSW 10.4 mph
10:52 AM 81.0 °F 30.14 in WSW 13.8 mph
11:52 AM 82.9 °F 30.12 in SW 15.0 mph
11:59 AM 82.4 °F 30.13 in WSW 12.7 mph
12:52 PM 84.9 °F 30.11 in WSW 12.7 mph
1:52 PM 87.1 °F 30.09 in SW 13.8 mph
2:52 PM 89.1 °F 30.08 in WSW 15.0 mph / 18.4 mph
3:52 PM 89.1 °F 30.06 in WSW 11.5 mph
4:52 PM 89.1 °F 30.04 in WSW 12.7 mph
5:52 PM 89.1 °F 30.03 in SW 12.7 mph
all info in the almanac
Thats no 3-4 mph winds there doug I would say mother nature gave you
very good help !
I know the article never mentioned this !!
but you were there to sell kawasaki's for your sponsors and lots of magical muzzy pipe's
for rob muzzy.
I dont even want to get into what you guys did to the specially preped bike behind closed doors you ran regular 87 pump gas right 
Sometimes people know a little more than you think.
And you know the old saying
(You can fool some of the people some of the time but not all the people all of the time !
I just simply was giving help in my post above with the speeds vs gearing and you
threw some belittling coments so here we are.
bottom line you did a fantastic job with over 1.16 miles starting in 2nd gear with big tail winds on a special muzzy preped bike, bigs props to ya.
Just having some fun with you, you are alright in my book, even thou you left out a few details.
____________
ACE PERFORMANCE.COM
40 Records@ Maxton, Fastest NA
1507cc Busa 223.330 MPH also
Fastest ZX12 N.A.212.846 MPH in
the mile Fastest 1000 750 @ Maxton
& Fastest 600 N.A. in the world.
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Phantom Menace
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Posts: 169
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posted January 21, 2007 06:35 AM
Edited By: Phantom Menace on 21 Jan 2007 06:48
quote:
quote:
Doug, I believe the wind data is calculated from an almanac. It wouldn't be too hard to figure out what time of day a tailwind took place, and approx which direction and how fast too.
Jason McVicar has seen 195-196.xx mph on the limiter on one @ Bonneville. Performance Bikes in the UK published 196 across their cover when they ran the busa and 12 head to head.
A.
Ok, first: You can't calculate prior race conditions by reading an almanac. You have to be at the track that day, for that run.
Second: If McVicar went 196.xx at Bonneville, and we KNOW there is more wheelspin on the salt, what exactly are you disputing here?
Third: Don't those "Performance Bike" guys regularly turn 11 second 1/4 miles on the 12? Who knows what the conditions were when they ran their bike? Better check the almanac. lol
Fourth: There are way too many "experts" in this thread. I saw on 12.org that Phantom states 17/46 is good for 183. I went 184.66 and had not hit the limiter....on a stock rear tire, no less! So I guess we better impound my bike. Oh wait, Ali was there and saw me set the bike up. Maybe it is a conspiracy.....
Hey genius.... the stock rev limiter with the stock tire is 196mph and each tooth on the front sprocket is worth 12.5mph..... that puts you at 183mph +/- with 17/46 gearing. Oh, and before you make any more sarcastic comments, talk with your boy Ali.
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shane661
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posted January 21, 2007 06:52 AM
Edited By: shane661 on 21 Jan 2007 07:00
Hey, genius. I have 17/46 and a stock dunlop 200/50 rear tire. I ran 184.66. Are you calling BS on my run? It took place the same day that Sal set his records.
Of course if you are saying that Maxton speed is not accurate, you should definitely voice your concerns to them. Then they can "fix" the timing lights to your liking.
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Phantom Menace
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posted January 21, 2007 07:15 AM
Nah, the lights are fine.
You're right Shane, my bad... my mistake.
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entropy
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posted January 21, 2007 07:28 AM
quote:
Hey, genius. I have 17/46 and a stock dunlop 200/50 rear tire. I ran 184.66. Are you calling BS on my run? It took place the same day that Sal set his records.
Of course if you are saying that Maxton speed is not accurate, you should definitely voice your concerns to them. Then they can "fix" the timing lights to your liking
my rpm/gearing/mph calculator with 17/46, OEM Dunlop (76.5"): 188.4mph @11,600
I've been logging rpm, etc for 2 years and have made many, MANY comparisons of rpm vs mph at the 1/4mi where wheelspin/clutch slip is not a factor (lockup)
I appreciate Shifty's passion for the sport, but shifty: GET FUKKEN OVER IT!!!!
Aren't there people in this world that you 110% trust???
Doug Meyer ought to be one of them.
BTW: with 18/46 and the OEM Dunlop I calc 199.5mph @11,600.
2% Tire slip??
OK lets try a calc on my 180/55ZR17 SC2 = 78.5" circumference
18/46 = 204.5
minus 2% = 200mph.
What does this prove?? Nothing, but it "adds up" with what Doug says.
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psycho1122
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posted January 21, 2007 08:17 AM
quote:
quote:
I got my hookup back.
This is all getting a little of hand. I'm willing to work on the tech stuff but the rest is all bullshit.
SO, anybody figure that speed at 11,600 yet?
Yeah Doug.....201.32 M.P.H.
(That is my oringinal Calculation with a Brand new STOCK O.E. Dunlap 200/50 ZR17. The Cir. on it was 77.25 in.)
entropy; good input here BTW... there must be some production tollerance differences on the O.E. Dunlaps. Mine NEW was as posted above.
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You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
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entropy
Moderator
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posted January 21, 2007 08:33 AM
quote:
quote:
quote:
I got my hookup back.
This is all getting a little of hand. I'm willing to work on the tech stuff but the rest is all bullshit.
SO, anybody figure that speed at 11,600 yet?
Yeah Doug.....201.32 M.P.H.
(That is my oringinal Calculation with a Brand new STOCK O.E. Dunlap 200/50 ZR17. The Cir. on it was 77.25 in.)
entropy; good input here BTW... there must be some production tollerance differences on the O.E. Dunlaps. Mine NEW was as posted above.
psycho:
My measurement of the OEM Dunlop was 5 yrs ago when i was running it at the 1/4; prolly had a bunch of passes and was worn. Yr # is better, fo' sho'
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shiphteey
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posted January 21, 2007 08:53 AM
Shane, yeah the guys out in the UK don't launch em hard like drag racers do sometimes in their mags, but the MPH they come thru is indicative of what the bikes are capable of, not to mention their articles are about 10x more informative and engaging than the watered down US mags we get here (read: Trash)
If you can sleep at night knowing that DM went a full 2-3 mph faster than anyone else ever has EVER on a similarly set-up 12 then cool. I am not disrepecting him, but it seems like lots of people here have a problem with simply asking questions and getting to some objective truths. Yeah I have a feeling he is a stand-up guy and has been doing this for tons of years. But Shane, you act like Sal hasn't been doing it for 10 years either. The 9/10 is on the street, sure, but don't make it look like something out of Fast & Furious or something. If you come thru trapping pulling hard and not at the rev limiter then yes, you could be seeing some missing MPH due to not being on the limiter...but different people gear differently.....some have geared to be on the limiter at the traps since ET takes precedence over MPH. Nevertheless, you can use the MPH obtained from GPS while on the limiter to project correct (within 1 mph accuracy) mph in the future. I know when I have been pulling hard before the traps @ Maxton my GPS was showing 200, trapping 202.xx However sometimes I have come thru on the limiter in 5th....the time slip and gps showed 188. Food for thought.
A.
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Outsiderzx12r
Zone Head
Street Racer
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posted January 21, 2007 09:37 AM
quote:
O.K. if we suddenly have a memory loss I will post this and maybe it will come back to you.
here is your qoute doug,
WHAT is all this CRAP about a big tailwind and where is it coming from? No one else ran with us, we rented the place on private time.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Time temp air/press wind directoin and (SPEED)
9:52 AM 77.0 °F 30.16 in WSW 10.4 mph
10:52 AM 81.0 °F 30.14 in WSW 13.8 mph
11:52 AM 82.9 °F 30.12 in SW 15.0 mph
11:59 AM 82.4 °F 30.13 in WSW 12.7 mph
12:52 PM 84.9 °F 30.11 in WSW 12.7 mph
1:52 PM 87.1 °F 30.09 in SW 13.8 mph
2:52 PM 89.1 °F 30.08 in WSW 15.0 mph / 18.4 mph
3:52 PM 89.1 °F 30.06 in WSW 11.5 mph
4:52 PM 89.1 °F 30.04 in WSW 12.7 mph
5:52 PM 89.1 °F 30.03 in SW 12.7 mph
all info in the almanac
Thats no 3-4 mph winds there doug I would say mother nature gave you
very good help !
When I think "big winds", I think 30-40 like we have in Kansas, the above listed wind speeds are a breeze here.
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dougmeyer
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posted January 21, 2007 09:46 AM
Not so fast, guys. If that wind data is accurate and if I ran when the wind was blowing, which we tried NOT to do, the wind component of a WSW or SW wind at 10 kt. (I' m assuming a 360 deg "runway" heading) is 3-5 mph. My experience, however (on the salt- granted) is that the scrub from trying to correct on a crosswind of more that about 20 deg pretty much negates speed advantages that small. Most of the time you go slower because of the correction into the wind to go straight. (it's different from the advantage in a plane because the "crab" at the tire patch and body correction slows you- doesn't happen in a plane where the resultant wind component is unaffected).
We were not unaware of the variable wind and tried to avoid it.
Thanks for doing the math. That is about what I remember- I'll check it when I get home and can measure a tire myself.
As far as Iceman's "behind closed doors" allegations. He wasn't there. I was. There was too much credibility at stake for us to "cheat". Rob Muzzy doesn't cheat. I don't cheat. I have lost a record to a cheater and NOTHING makes me sicker. Kawasaki would NOT TOLERATE cheating. If you'll remember, the bike was sealed and made available to ANY magazine that may have wished to disassemble and inspect it. I wish someone had.
OF COURSE we didn't run 87 pump. We ran Shell 92 brought from Oregon as I remember it. That's what Rob runs almost all the time for any of the kit development. It works better than a lot of race gas on NA engines.
So then, Ice you WERE the ambulance driver that day?
Are we done yet?
Doug
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GUNNER
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posted January 21, 2007 10:18 AM
I saved a lot of money on my car insurance the other day
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dougmeyer
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moderated
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posted January 21, 2007 10:46 AM
Geico?
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Phantom Menace
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posted January 21, 2007 11:03 AM
quote:
As far as Iceman's "behind closed doors" allegations. He wasn't there. I was. There was too much credibility at stake for us to "cheat". Rob Muzzy doesn't cheat. I don't cheat.
Hey, rented a private canal where I wrestled down two alligators simultaneously and skinned them alive to make a pair of boots that I later sold on Ebay for $82 + shipping. Only my close personal friend (who helped me make the boots) was allowed to watch. What? You don't believe me? I was there, you weren't !!! I don't lie, my friend doesn't lie either.
Do you see how you sound?
Not exactly the best defense if you know what I mean....
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shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted January 21, 2007 11:09 AM
quote:
quote:
As far as Iceman's "behind closed doors" allegations. He wasn't there. I was. There was too much credibility at stake for us to "cheat". Rob Muzzy doesn't cheat. I don't cheat.
Hey, rented a private canal where I wrestled down two alligators simultaneously and skinned them alive to make a pair of boots that I later sold on Ebay for $82 + shipping. Only my close personal friend (who helped me make the boots) was allowed to watch. What? You don't believe me? I was there, you weren't !!! I don't lie, my friend doesn't lie either.
Do you see how you sound?
Not exactly the best defense if you know what I mean....
Did you make the alligators available for inspection afterwards? lol
"Hey, my bike is in a million pieces. I race on the street in South FLA. I believe GPS is 100% accurate. I am a perfect candidate to question the integrity of Doug Meyer."
Do you see how you sound?
This thread is ridiculous!
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted January 21, 2007 11:11 AM
quote:
... it seems like lots of people here have a problem with simply asking questions and getting to some objective truths....
A.
Nope, almost no one here has a problem trying to get at objective truths. But I have a problem with beating a dead fukken horse, with the constant implication that Doug is perhaps not giving the whole story.
so doug is a couple mph faster??? Why don't YOU take aim at Doug's mph, its only a few mph over what some others have done???
Or better yet ,go over to SH.org and take aim at DaveO hitting 220/222 NA???
There's a challenge, eh? No one is within about 10mph of him. Is DaveO "misspeaking" himself when he says its NA???
over and out.
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted January 21, 2007 11:15 AM
quote:
... I wrestled down two alligators simultaneously and skinned them alive to make a pair of boots that I later sold on Ebay for $82 + shipping. ...
Yep, Shifty posted about those boots, they arrived at his house missing the heels.
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GUNNER
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posted January 21, 2007 11:27 AM
quote:
Geico?
Yes Doug give them a call.
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