aliveagain
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posted December 30, 2006 11:31 AM
clack clack here
and a clack clack there.What a racket when I went to start up the bike.I found the cam tensioner did not spring out when i installed it.I can only think the valves had tap dance shoes on when it started.Idle was shit too. 
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MadMike
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posted December 30, 2006 03:08 PM
oh man.....
dude please say it aint so....
how the hell did it not spring out? did something break in it?
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Y2KZX12R
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posted December 30, 2006 03:17 PM
Man, that sucks Pete.
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TRNorBRN6001
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posted December 30, 2006 04:36 PM
ouch!!!!
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VincentHill
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posted December 30, 2006 05:49 PM
SOmetimes the Valves will touch but not get damaged (Ask Mr. Clean with a New ZX14 or Brock). DO not do anything to the engine (Like take it apart.) Send me a PM with your address and I will send you a Bear Manual Cam Chain tensioner I was using but changed because I did not like the Color (Green)  for Free to you. Overnight on Tuesday you have it Wednesday. I would prefer a WOrk Address it will cost me $4 less for Shipping! OK??
Put it in and to adjust it rotate the engine CLOCKWISE Slowly with the 17 MM Box and screw in the tensioner by hand until tight. Using 2 wrenches hold the tensioner in postion with 1 wrench and tighen the lock nut. The Start the engine. If no noises, then warm up and check the compression. You may still be OK!! OK??
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aliveagain
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posted December 30, 2006 06:28 PM
Thanx VH,I already have a manual tensioner that I took off and replaced with the stock unit.I'm not sure about whether the pin was in right and so it didn't push out.When I put the tension back in after checking it,I turned the motor over and heard no noise.Yes, thought I was golden!Put the plugs and coils back on and the tat-a-tat started again which baffles me.I gotta love my wife who gave me a vote of confidence by saying,you sure have to work on that a lot!Pffffttt.My brother brought over the compression tester,so I'll get a reading tomorrow.
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I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted December 31, 2006 04:59 AM
I always pull the Tensioner "Cap" after installation, remove the spring and rod. Then push the adjuster in manually with a small phillips screwdriver. I will also rock the cam chain with the starter (Injectors unplugged) to take up any additional slack.
Man! Sorry to hear your having a difficult time here, hope all comes out OK.......
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Y2KZX12R
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posted December 31, 2006 05:41 AM
Hey Pete, I didnt leave a magnetic base dial indicator over there a few months ago did I?
I cant find one of mine.
Pete, heres how I set the tension with the stocker.
Retract it 100%.
Bolt it in.
Put the pin,spring, and cap in.
You should be listening and watching for slack takeup.
Turn the crankshaft by hand a few degrees normal rotation direction.
Then turn it reverse rotation a few degrees. You should hear another click or two.
Do this several times and hand check the tension on the chain.
Did you ever measure the chain for stretch like we discussed?
I remember your chain guides as being pretty worn also.
I wouldnt use a manual tensioner. Its far, far more easy to cause problems with a manual tensioner if its not adjusted properly than with the stock tensioner. The stockers are excelent so theres no reason that i have seen to use a manual tensioner on a zx12r.
The Busa ones were junk and suzuki had known admitted issues with them so thats another story.
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aliveagain
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posted December 31, 2006 08:03 AM
Y2KZX12R no I never measured the chain believing it had few too many miles to be a problem.I cleaned up the work bench and all my tools and didn't see your dial indicator.I'll have to remember about turning the cam chain back and forth,nice tip.
I just did a compression check and have 195,195,200,210 but they all leak off right away.I don't know if this is because of the pistons being cold or the valves leaking.I'll start by pulling the cam cap to see if anything is obvious but I bet I'll end up pulling the head again.
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VincentHill
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posted December 31, 2006 11:49 AM
Squirt a Little Oil into the spark Plug holes and spin the engine again for Compression. If the read the same then it is rings leaking but if it is about the same then it is the valves. Wait until you see what my stuff looks like!!
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aliveagain
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posted December 31, 2006 01:40 PM
Well,I feel like a daytime soap opera.I took the head off and no marks on the piston and the valves look good.Now this really confuses me as I don't know what else could make this noise.I did find a wire crushed on the crank sensor so that will be rerouted.I had a bolt back out in the clutch once,I'll check that next.It made a similar racket..I just feel lucky nothing banged around in the head.
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NINJA12
Needs a job
Posts: 3310
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posted December 31, 2006 03:38 PM
look at EVERY ONE of the shims.
I'll bet that one is not in the socket.
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entropy
Moderator
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posted January 01, 2007 02:07 AM
quote:
look at EVERY ONE of the shims.
I'll bet that one is not in the socket.
badda BING!
quote:
I wouldnt use a manual tensioner. Its far, far more easy to cause problems with a manual tensioner if its not adjusted properly than with the stock tensioner. The stockers are excellent so theres no reason that i have seen to use a manual tensioner on a zx12r
+1
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aliveagain
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posted January 01, 2007 04:59 AM
Shims were fine, at least they all are now.Every time I pull a bucket, the shim comes out with it.If the shim was cocked, wouldn't that show up in the compression test by keeping the valve open?What would the noise come from?The head is back on and once the cams are inI'll lift the motor and open the clutch.Ha ha cheaper in that end!
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VincentHill
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posted January 01, 2007 05:08 AM
I do not understand what you are saying!
Karl, for a Street ENgine, the Manual Tensioner could be a pain. For a Race Only engine, Removing the Stock tensioner eliminates 1 more problem. Tell me, have you ever had your Cam chain in the Between position? Where 1 notch is too lose and 1 notch is too tight? I have and heard the Slap until it "Finally" Got to the next notch. I also have seen 1 tensioner that backed up. Again something A Manual tensioner cannot do.
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aliveagain
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posted January 01, 2007 05:57 AM
VH,When the weather permits, I still ride it slammed every day to work.
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted January 01, 2007 07:37 AM
quote:
I do not understand what you are saying!
Karl, for a Street ENgine, the Manual Tensioner could be a pain. For a Race Only engine, Removing the Stock tensioner eliminates 1 more problem. Tell me, have you ever had your Cam chain in the Between position? Where 1 notch is too lose and 1 notch is too tight? I have and heard the Slap until it "Finally" Got to the next notch. I also have seen 1 tensioner that backed up. Again something A Manual tensioner cannot do.
nope, I have not had any problems with the OEM tensioner since I learned how to install it properly (fully retracted).
However, I have had numerous problems with the manual tensioner. The OEM tensioner will click until the chain is really tight, but not too tight. With the manual you have to be super careful to get the tension right. Very, VERY easy to get it too tight, and equally easy to get it too loose.
IMO the only reason folks with 12's went to manual tensioners was the (mistaken) Y2001 perception that adding the .080" base spacer for strokers put the OEM tensioner out of it's range.
If you are an expert, sure, use a manual tensioner if you just want to do it. If you are not an expert use the OEM.
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MadMike
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posted January 01, 2007 05:04 PM
ther is a little 59cent circlip that holds the oilpump drive gear to the shaft. I know of 2 motors that have failed due to that clip breaking/popping off. and that will allow the gear to slide back into the clutch basket... and that will make some clacking.... for sure.
just another idea for ya...
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buddy
Expert Class
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posted January 01, 2007 07:08 PM
 Edited By: buddy on 1 Jan 2007 19:09
MM
I know about that little circlip also. 
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NINJA12
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posted January 01, 2007 09:40 PM
AA if you use a magnet to pull the buckets the shim should be in the center.
If All the shims are good, my next guess woould be a valve guide.
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VincentHill
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posted January 02, 2007 05:50 AM
I understand what you are saying Karl, someone with a Wrench in their hand to ADJust the manual Tensioner will soo find a new problem with all of the Black rubbed off the Guides (It will cone off).
MM I will take a Look at mine and maybe Grind the tops off to decrease the amount of heat it can generate
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entropy
Moderator
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posted January 02, 2007 07:32 AM
quote:
I understand what you are saying Karl, someone with a Wrench in their hand to ADJust the manual Tensioner will soo find a new problem with all of the Black rubbed off the Guides (It will cone off).
MM I will take a Look at mine and maybe Grind the tops off to decrease the amount of heat it can generate
VH,
what you talking about grinding???
MM: VERY good point about checking/replacing the circlip on the oil/water pump driveshaft.
My fuckup (in re-using it) on Buddy's motor still makes me wanna turn my leg around and kick myself in the ass.
Buddy is the one who should have kicked me in the ass as he was worried about it when i put it back in. :dumbassme
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buddy
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posted January 02, 2007 08:33 AM
Hey, Karl, you didn't have to tell. I wasn't.
As it turned out, it was a good example of things to look for for us fledgeling motor builders. I claim part of that build as, afterall, it was me who painted the oil pan.
When I got it home, I decided after warming it up, I would go out in front of the house for a short driveing test. I drove very slow for about a quarter of a mile then hit it for about a second. The oil light came on then the Clackety Clack. It was a cheap fix since I was going so slow and shut it off so fast.
No biggie, as it has run very strong since then.
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aliveagain
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posted January 02, 2007 02:59 PM
I started it up tonite,no noise! Phew!I haven't a clue what the problem was or what I fixed.Seems ok now.Next on the agenda is to have it remapped.Thanx for all the tips.
One last thing.I think I'm dirt with the old lady.I had some rags I didn't think were too bad so I washed them to keep my supply up.What a nasty ring that left.LOL Wait until I tell her I was juust marking my spot.
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entropy
Moderator
Posts: 8671
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posted January 02, 2007 03:16 PM
AA,
Take a tip from me, don't ever clean yr cases or cyl block in the dishwasher; that doesn't seem to make wifey happy either. (works well though )
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