aliveagain
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posted December 08, 2006 07:39 PM
1 1/2 quarts of oil
I drained the oil and only got 1 1/2 quarts including the filter.Guess I know why the plugs were fouling.I'm confused,brand new rings and valve seals and yet all 4 plugs would foul after 50 miles.If it was either,I could understand,but on all four plugs?
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entropy
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posted December 09, 2006 01:10 AM
AA
do a leak down;
But i don't understand how you are burning enough oil to foul the plugs without seeing smoke outa yr pipe.
Did you drain when really cold so there is more oil in the motor??
I pulled my motor down after draining it on a real cold day and there was AT LEAST a qt still in the head etc (if the pools on my bench were any indication)
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aliveagain
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posted December 09, 2006 04:59 AM
I brought it up to temp the night before,trying to burp the coolant.I waited to the next morning to drain the oil out thinking it allshould have been drain down by then.
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psycho1122
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posted December 09, 2006 05:48 AM
 Edited By: psycho1122 on 9 Dec 2006 05:49
Iv'e been told that Synthetic Oil does not smoke.....
AA; Do you run synthetic?
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aliveagain
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posted December 09, 2006 11:26 AM
After 50 mile break in,I went back to synthetic.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted December 09, 2006 11:41 AM
Pete, did you ever get a chance to have the map checked at Dyno Solutions?
Can you tell if the plugs are fuel fouled or oil fouled?
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aliveagain
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posted December 09, 2006 11:52 AM
Oh yeah,we's a smokin big time now with dino oil.No,I never did get back up to Dyno solutions yet.I was trying to fix a coolant leak on the pump(which still leaks)and put new plugs in for the dyno.I wasn't going to do anything for awhile cause of Christmas.Funds are low now and found out my wife is losing her job in 2007 so I have a feeling I'm just going to button her up until we see what curve ball life is throwing at us.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted December 09, 2006 12:08 PM
Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 9 Dec 2006 12:09
That sucks about the wife. That slows ya down for a while.
Let me know if you need a hand when you take it apart.
Pete, do me a favor thou. Before you take the engine apart, check the reed plates and or block off's to make sure you arnt sucking oil from the camcover.
My bike was smoking a few years ago and I found it was sucking oil from around the gasket into the exhaust thru the clean air port in the exhaust port. The oil loss and smoking stopped.
If thats whats causing it then you wont see anything wrong with the plugs. but if you take the pipe off and see wetness from the cleanair ports in the exhaust port then you know its oil and thats the problem.
So takingthe pipe off and looking with a flashlight will tell you alot.
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aliveagain
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posted December 09, 2006 01:32 PM
Good info  I'll check but I doubt all the cylinders are being leaked into.
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VincentHill
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posted December 09, 2006 03:59 PM
I know there are differences in opinion, but with New Rings I use SA Rated Oil for about 50 miles and then Dino Oil the cheapest Motorcycle Oil I can find for about 500 Miles THEN I go back to Syn Oil it takes more that 50 miles to seat a set of rings and that os the most difficult part of the New ENgine Process
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aliveagain
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posted December 09, 2006 04:31 PM
With the amount of smoke,I doubt its a matter of seating the rings as it never did this before.Nice idea for a new post tho.VH,one of these times,I'm going to have to time how long it takes to pull a motor.
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VincentHill
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posted December 09, 2006 05:26 PM
quote:
With the amount of smoke,I doubt its a matter of seating the rings as it never did this before.Nice idea for a new post tho.VH,one of these times,I'm going to have to time how long it takes to pull a motor.
A Lot longer than I want to spend and more to put it back in place. I just looked at the Clock when I started and when I had the engine in the House and was all cleaned up I looked again and it was between 5 to 6 Hours in total with the Bike completely ready to ride in the Beginning! (Yes with No help at all!
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smokinZX14
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posted December 09, 2006 05:46 PM
quote:
I drained the oil and only got 1 1/2 quarts including the filter.Guess I know why the plugs were fouling.I'm confused,brand new rings and valve seals and yet all 4 plugs would foul after 50 miles.If it was either,I could understand,but on all four plugs?
I take it you just added new rings to the motor and stem seals .......Ok when you pull the motor back apart look at the oil ring expanders look to see if you over lap the ends of the expanders ...It's very easy to screw up but also an easly fix ... On to the oil , syn oil will not cause the rings not to seat .....If that were true the viper and vett would not use it from the factory ....I just did a rebuild on a viper motor and the rings are of the same type as our kawi use...They are a low drag rings and use compession to seal the ring to the walls....These type of rings seal with in seconds of the motor first start up..The old days of buying a new car and using two QTs of oil before the first oil chance are long gone ...Same goes for bikes... So check your oil rings and see what up...
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smokinZX14
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posted December 09, 2006 05:50 PM
quote:
That sucks about the wife. That slows ya down for a while.
Let me know if you need a hand when you take it apart.
Pete, do me a favor thou. Before you take the engine apart, check the reed plates and or block off's to make sure you arnt sucking oil from the camcover.
My bike was smoking a few years ago and I found it was sucking oil from around the gasket into the exhaust thru the clean air port in the exhaust port. The oil loss and smoking stopped.
If thats whats causing it then you wont see anything wrong with the plugs. but if you take the pipe off and see wetness from the cleanair ports in the exhaust port then you know its oil and thats the problem.
So takingthe pipe off and looking with a flashlight will tell you alot.
+1 that a good place to start...
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Smokin Performance Cycles..
Tampa Bay , FL .. Brocks Performance Dealer ..
Gen 2 ZX14R Best ET 8.43 , Best MPH 164.95
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Y2KZX12R
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posted December 10, 2006 04:41 AM
Pete, I'll stop down this afternoon and take a look for ya. Just get the pipe off so I can see the exhaust ports. And I'll need to see the plugs. Let me know if today is good. Call me about noon or so.
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aliveagain
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posted December 10, 2006 03:06 PM
Well,because of you guys,I got the incentive to drop the motor.Cylinder doesn't look bad like I thought it would.All the inlet valves on the stem side are wet.Also three of the pistons have round circles about the size of a shim on the piston head exhaust side but nothing on the valves.Jim,I need your help on this one to see if there is any bottom end problems.I don't think the valves touched but it was probably pretty close. To entropy who told me when I first went to the track,get a big credit card.  
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entropy
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posted December 11, 2006 01:20 AM
quote:
... To entropy who told me when I first went to the track,get a big credit card.
bahahahahahahahahaha!!! (told ya so...)
AA: kudos to you for gettin' after it! Have Jim help you measure valve to piston min clearance, and take a close look at yr valve guides. GO FOR IT!!!
6 of my exh guides are toast and are being replaced this week... It's been 2 years since my head was built so i guess its about time for a refresh. Maybe those 6 guides are part of my hp which went missing????
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aliveagain
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posted December 11, 2006 02:39 AM
I'm a little worried about if they touched or not and if it is the rod bearings going.If the valves did touch,doesn't that make flat spots on the bearing surface?I'm confused why the intake valves would be wet if it was the exhaust that were close.New seals and 4 new guides were put in already,so I don't suspect them.
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flite leader
Zone Head
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posted December 12, 2006 11:34 AM
Edited By: flite leader on 12 Dec 2006 11:37
yours could be a rare condition
that worries the crap out of people
since after a rebuild....for what ever reason
but usually as a result of a break or blow
folks are real anxious
no less i think your engine is NOT venting
which will give excessive blow-by
at the rings
also effects ignition & running
ie the engine is pumping against a sealed crank space
you can use those cans of air(usually nitrogen)
that you can obtain at computer stores
the reason i recommend them is .......
using a compressor provides WAY TOOOOOOOO much air
& Pressure.....
can cause Damage
with the cans of air & the little red tube
you can spray into the crank vent.....tubing
into the oil filler cap
into the spark plug holes
& LISTEN
there are places you Should hear air flowing & escaping......
there are places you Should NOT....!!!!!!
by the way some synthetics will Smoke......its Oil
one more tip/suggestion
where you are .....& the problems you are having
Make Certain Everything is Set up STOCK.......
after you get it running properly
then try netting out your HP & performance gains
good luck
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or break your ass...!!
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