supra5677
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posted November 17, 2006 08:09 AM
Cooling Intake Runners
To Board:
Is there anything I can put on the inside of my intake runners to dramatically cool the air
going to the air box? For example any type of cooling epoxy, spray or some sort of foil?
thanks.
   
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TRNorBRN6001
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posted November 17, 2006 12:21 PM
Nos!!!!!!!!!!!
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MadMike
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posted November 17, 2006 01:19 PM
if you look around there are a "spot" coolers that run off of compressed air. they will freeze the crap out of it!
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psycho1122
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posted November 18, 2006 08:06 AM
I have them wrapped in an adhesive backed foam @ 1/4 inch thick w/ foil exterior. The air at speed does not stay in there long enough to make much of a difference.
I do feel that keeping the frame/airbox itself from becomming heat saturated during operation is beneficial. I also have lined the underside of the frame with the same material.
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thekaz
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posted November 18, 2006 09:12 AM
I wrapped my whole freaking intake system with a foil heat barrier . Not sure how much good it does but at least it helps keep engine heat from heating up the intakes.
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vozizm
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posted November 18, 2006 01:53 PM
pics fellas...show us some pics!!
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MadMike
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posted November 18, 2006 01:57 PM
I have also done the underside of my entire airbox/frame with heat tape also... I believe it does keep it cooler, but who knows how much really...
MM
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supra5677
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posted November 18, 2006 03:18 PM
ok thanks.. show pics if you can.. I know some cars have ram air systems
and "cold air boxes" i'll do some more research and see.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted November 19, 2006 06:09 AM
 Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 19 Nov 2006 06:10
Do a search on here for "heat blanket" you might find some info on this topic.
It might even have the material, shape, and how to properly install it. Maybe even some pics. 
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supra5677
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posted November 19, 2006 10:43 AM
thanks..
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dougmeyer
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posted November 19, 2006 09:45 PM
Edited By: dougmeyer on 19 Nov 2006 21:49
What you are trying to accomplish is what an intercooler does on a turbo application. An intercooler works because of the very large heat transfer surface area provided by the construction, which is the same as a liquid to to air radiator. In order to cool the incoming air on a N/A engine, you'd have to run all the incoming air through a very cold intercooler type radiator. Cars at Bonneville have used large ducts covered in dry ice on turbo intercoolers but , remember there you are dealing with a lot of air under high pressure. On a N/A engine at the low speeds we run, you'd kill the flow.
The cooling epoxy is a good idea, I think you can get it at the invisibility paint store.
Keep up the good work..... 
D.
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TRNorBRN6001
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posted November 20, 2006 11:13 AM
What is the general rule of thumb for every 10F dropped gains 1% in HP
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Y2KZX12R
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posted November 21, 2006 02:31 PM
Oh, sorry Supra, I thought you were talking about keeping the throttle bodies from heating up from engine heat.
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supra5677
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posted November 22, 2006 08:56 PM
actually I was thinkin about lining the intake runners and air box with
thin copper sheeting. then having holes punched through them for heat
dissapation. Then the heat blanket to go underneath the air box .Im still
in the drawing phases but what I had in mind ultimately was a poor mans
intercooler.
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dougmeyer
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posted November 24, 2006 11:13 AM
Wouldn't it be a little easier and possibly even somewhat effective if you insulated the OUSTIDE of the intake so that the area through which the air passes will not get much hotter than the ambient air? The temp of the ambient air is the best you can hope for isn't it? You can't get the air any cooler than ambient unless you intorduce it through something MUCH cooler than the air (intercooler). By doing as you've described, you'll create a very nice little heater that will pick up the frame/runner heat and give the incoming air more surface area from which to ABSORB that heat.
TRN- You're close- A 10F RISE in temperature would yield about a 1.6% DECREASE in air density ( and therefore a 1.6% decrease in power (assuming the A/F was adjusted to remain optimum) and of course the inverse is true cool the air 10F and you get back 1.6% of power.
So, Supra, in order to make your endeavor "worth while" , you'd need to lower the temperature by 10's of degrees. You'll need some VERY cold copper in in there!
D.
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thekaz
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posted November 24, 2006 11:46 AM
quote:
So, Supra, in order to make your endeavor "worth while" , you'd need to lower the temperature by 10's of degrees. You'll need some VERY cold copper in in there!
D.
I think you can buy Arctic Copper on Ebay :P
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supra5677
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posted November 24, 2006 04:56 PM
I did some research.. Every 10 degree drop is a 1.8% increase in power.. My plan is to heat blanket outside the air box and then line the intake runners and air box with aluminum...
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supra5677
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posted November 24, 2006 04:58 PM
arctic copper very funny..
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dougmeyer
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posted November 25, 2006 02:52 PM
Good. It's about time.
It's Boyle's law
V= Volume, T=Temp
V2 = V1 ( T2/T1) To do it accurately you need to add 459.4 to each Temp in F to convert to Temp in Kelvin before doing the division.
Well, that's an admirable plan.
But where is the temperture change going to COME FROM?
If by "intake runners" you mean the rubber tubes, you're going to take the rubber which is essentially an insulator and won't change or transmit heat very quickly, and line it with aluminum which is not an insulator and will change and transmit heat quickly.
Youd be making the rubber into a heat sink.
Whaa??
D.
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entropy
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posted November 25, 2006 04:17 PM
For a while i logged airbox temp. Mildly interesting results.
Basically, in the 1/4 no matter how hi the airbox temp was at the starting line, when it started eating mojo air (2nd half of 1/4), the airbox temp showed ambient.
For a streetbike i might be tempted to fool with airbox insulation, but for a race bike (Borat voice)... NOT!!!
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supra5677
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posted November 25, 2006 04:50 PM
Good afternoon Mr. Meyer..Glad I have your attention on this topic.
Question 1. Can you tell me the ECU number on the bike that Rickey
Gadson ran the 9.52 quarter mile?
2 Most aftermarket cold air boxes are made from aluminum so lining
the airbox with aluminum couldnt hurt especially with the heat blanket
3 As far as what will lower the temperature below ambient good question
I'll just keep looking..
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dougmeyer
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posted November 26, 2006 08:30 AM
My pleasure.
1. Nope. I think Rickey probably still has that bike and would know. I wouldn't expect to be any different than the later production ones, though.
2.True, but they are just enclosures to gather and direct air. They get their name because the bring in the cooler, ambient air, rather than let the engine eat the hot "underhood" air (on a cage) ar air
around or behind the motorcycle engine. They don't cool the air.
3. Good luck.
I think the best route is spraying some sort of compressed gas which as it goes to amient temp dramatically cools (It's that pesky Boylese's law again). You could use anything that won't put the fire out.- Hydrogen, Oxygen (be careful with those), or hey, how about nitrous oxide? A great oxidizer, and in small quantities actually adds some power. Now there's an idea that might just work.....
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supra5677
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posted November 26, 2006 10:03 AM
Thanks Doug.. Do you think you can ask Rickey for us on the board the
part number for the ecu? Given the fact that there at at least 5 ecu's for
the 2000 zx12r..This would be a great help for all of us...
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entropy
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posted November 26, 2006 10:41 AM
quote:
...spraying some sort of compressed gas which as it goes to amient temp dramatically cools ...
i betcha Dr Doug meant "...ambient pressure..."
(pv=nrt, eh?)
Doug,
good to see you still skulking around 
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dougmeyer
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posted November 29, 2006 05:23 PM
Nice catch Karl. Exaaactly.
Karl you have a 2000. What's up with ALL the ECU numbers cited above....?
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