Zedjon
Parking Attendant
Posts: 5
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posted November 14, 2006 11:29 AM
What deristrictor for zx12 (05-06models)?
Hi, I just purchased a deristrictor from a vendor at the UK international bike show, I pointed out that I had a UK 2006 model( ZX12R-B6). I have just recieved in the post a Muzzy's unit (P/N MZPM-K12) only to find out this is suitable only for the 2001 to 2002 model. I have a Power Commander 111usb fitted (also full akrapovic exhaust, BMC air filters & block off plates), do you know what deristrictor I can fit ?
This is my 2nd 12R, I had a 2003 model before and prior to that a 2000 ZX9R-E1, for over 20 years I have also owned a Z1000R2 Eddie Lawson replica. I am new to the sight and look forward to hearing any advice or help thanks.
Jon Y.
  
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GUNNER
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted November 14, 2006 11:47 AM
The newer 12Rs have a 32 bit ECU and none of the early stuff will work.. Sad to report that there is little intrest from the after market for the later model 12Rs.. You may never unrestrict it to the earlier specs without a competely after market ECU..
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted November 14, 2006 01:50 PM
Sad but true!
The Only solution that is even Possible right now is to take the Neat bike you have with radial brakes and front end and find a Junk 2000 or 2001 Model and take the ECU all of the sensors and wiring harness along with the Throttle Bodies and hook it all up!
Not something you will do is a day, but in 2 weekends (One to remove everything necessary from the Donor Bike and the other to install it all and tune it up!) My guess is that just for the ECU and all of the sensors (Take the complete battery package and do not forget to take the radiator sensors also) The only thing I have not thought out about this is will the Gauge package hook up? If it does, then you are in business 100%. I cannot believe that Kawasaki altered the Head so that the earlier sensors will not fit but even a 2002 or 2003 is a lot easier to work with than the 04 to 06.
Something to think about. Then again, Muzzy sold a complete after market ignition for the ZX12R but then again it was for the 00 and 01 models.
Have you given up yet??
At least you do not have a French Bike with Fender Washers in the intake reducing the size down to a Nickel or small Quarter in the opening size!
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Zedjon
Parking Attendant
Posts: 5
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posted November 14, 2006 02:37 PM
I have been trying to find information regarding the Yellow Box from Blackrobotics and the Nikko G-Pack Derestrictor (which I believe maybe a French company), does anyone know of these products and whether they are available for the ZX12R 2005 and 2006 model.
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted November 14, 2006 02:56 PM
quote:
I have been trying to find information regarding the Yellow Box from Blackrobotics and the Nikko G-Pack Derestrictor (which I believe maybe a French company), does anyone know of these products and whether they are available for the ZX12R 2005 and 2006 model.
All of the ones I have seen here go up to a 2003 I have yet to see the 2004 (If that is the first year with the Dual butterflies!
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zrexpilot
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted November 14, 2006 06:36 PM
I have the yellow box on my '04. I dont know i it derstricts as I am more a drag racer.
Pretty sure if you run the yellow box and wire 6'th gear into 5th that would work, cant see how it wouldnt.
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Zedjon
Parking Attendant
Posts: 5
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posted November 14, 2006 08:10 PM
I have just received this email from yellr.com :-
Hi Jon,
In older model ZX-12Rs the speed limiting is based on the speed
sensor reading. As the Yellow Box corrects the speed sensor signal
the speed limiting can be removed/adjusted in this case.
The Hayabusa's speed limiter is based on engine revs and the fact that
it's in 6th gear. As such the Yellow Box cannot directly affect this
system.
If your '06 ZX-12R uses the original speed limiting system of the
ZX-12Rs then a Yellow Box should be able to remove your speed limiting.
If your ZX-12R uses a different system a Yellow Box may still be able
to adjust the speed enough to give the full range of speed. Just by
correcting your stock speedo error (stock speedo error often 4-8% fast)
and additional sprocket change errors. Correcting your speedo error
will often add 5-10% to the allowable top end speed.
Thanks
Jennifer
She seems to think that there would be an improvement although unsure if the unit would unrestrict the bike, I will try and find more info or can anyone provide further information.
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zrexpilot
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted November 14, 2006 08:47 PM
One way to tell is go to a dyno. Run a sixth gear run and see where it cuts out, gear it taller and run a fifth gear run and see if it cuts out. If it cuts out at 186 in both gears its a speed sensor and the yellow box will work, if it only cuts out in sixth it probably an rpm restriction.
And wiring 6th to 5th will cure it.
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted November 15, 2006 07:09 AM
 Edited By: ridgeracer on 15 Nov 2006 07:11
If the yellow box could fix the problem then we would of all heard about it by now.
Actually I have a theory that I have posted before but is worth repeating.
The original 2000 zx-12 was not restricted. The 2001 I bought was. A quick glance at the shop manual wiring diagrams showed that they had added a wire from the speedo sensor to the ECU on the '01. I put a scope on that wire, found it was a 5V pulse and quickly devised and inexpensive way to inject a false signal into the ECU to make it think it was going less than 186mph (300kMh)
A similar device was soon available from Muzzy. Also the Yellow box came on the scene. While it was originally designed to correct the cluster speedo reading when you changed gear sprockets it also worked to fake out the ECU as to how fast the bike was going.
Kawasaki had to be aware of what was going on and when they upgraded the zx-12r to their new 32bit ECU did something about it. What did they do?
As your letter above mentions the Busa uses the RPM and gear position. You see if you know how fast the crank is spinning and you know all the gear reduction ratios between the crank and the rear wheel you can calculate the rear wheel rpm and from that get mph. The Kawi speed sensor does essentially the same thing only it measures the output shaft rpm and calculates from there. Of course the Busa system is easily defeated by faking the ECU to think it is in 5th.
So maybe the Kawisaki guys decided to go the Busa route knowing their speedo wire restriction had been compromised. But why leave the speedo wire still connected? Besides they must also know that the gear postion restriction is even easier to defeat than speedo one, just rewire the gear wires.
What if they decided to do both?
Restirct the bike if the speedo signal went to high, OR the rpm/gear calc goes to high. People would try the old speedo tricks and they wouldn't work. People would try the Busa 5th gear trick and that wouldn't work.
Has anybody tried the speedo trick and the gear trick at the same time?
It would be no big deal for Kawi to use a 'double restriction' scheme. Its only Software.
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zrexpilot
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted November 15, 2006 11:25 AM
Exactly ! If you did both theres no way it wouldnt work.
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GUNNER
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted November 15, 2006 11:53 AM
I don't understand why they don't just make it simple to get around. All they need to do is comply with the agreement.. If it leaves the dealer restricted than they complied... Why be a BUNCH of lab coat wearing DICK HEADS and make shit so difficult??? It's NOT required...I manufacture firearms for a living and all I have to do is comply with the rules at that time... I don't have to make it impossible for the weapon to be altered... (because that's impossible to do in the first place) That's the BATFs job to police NOT mine.. I comply with what they say and the rest is up to them... It's the Local LEOs job to keep people from breaking the speed limit NO Kawaski's job... Why does Kawaski feel they have to stick their NOSE into what we want to do with a motorcycle we purchased from them and paid for.. They shouldn't give a shit... They don't have to OVER comply... Yet they do 
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted November 15, 2006 02:57 PM
Gunner you have now touched on what I liked the least about the ZX14. Pratically an Idiot can get on it and nothing can happen! Like driving a Rental car with the revs limited to 4,500 or 2,500 before you throw it in gear. The difference is they are trying to protect their investment from you and me, but Kawasaki is trying to protect our investment from us getting full use and enjoyment! Why else get a high powered motorcycle if you do not want full power?? Buy a Harley and then 100% power no problem spend another $20,000 and get a 200 Cubic Inch engine that makes 150 HP and let her Rip! (As in Rest in Peace! Because you will blow it up!!  )
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capt10ed
Expert Class
Posts: 327
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posted November 15, 2006 05:04 PM
Edited By: capt10ed on 15 Nov 2006 17:34
So RR if I were to install that little gizo you developed to de-restrict your 01 in my 04 AND do the 5th gear shift may be that might cure all our ills.
____________
2014 Loring AFB 14 runs over 200mph
with a best of 208.1 in 1.5 miles
and 204.5 in the mile.
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Zedjon
Parking Attendant
Posts: 5
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posted November 15, 2006 05:27 PM
I have just received a further email regarding to what can be used for derestriction on the later ZX12R's (2005-2006) and they also produce a component for the ZX14. You can check this out on the following websit :-
http://www.nikkoracing.com/gpack_tarifkawa.htm
Have a look at the sight, do you think this will do the job as stated ?, I don't think they can produce the part, promote it then sell it, if it doesn't work (I believe the manufacturing company is in France, I think they have laws about this). Maybe worth checking out further. It sounds a better bet than the yellow box.
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted November 16, 2006 06:32 AM
quote:
I don't think they can produce the part, promote it then sell it, if it doesn't work
Perhaps it only works on euro spec models? Have they actually tested it on North American, Asian, Australian, etc models?
Actually someone has purchased and installed the G-Pak in another thread.
quote:
I tested the g pack at maxton and had a blast. Its hard to say I proved the g pack to work. I clocked 186.30, the limiter kicks in at 186 on the speedo stock or did in the past. I buried the needle with this gearing, looked pinned and the revs were up past 10200 where I though the factory limiter kicked in. I cant say for sure that this mod worked, but I never hit a limiter this weekend and I truly feel like this bike had more left if I could have gotten a few more runs in. Personally I am not pissed about the purchase and am going to leave it installed for the spring run. I will give a more definitive report in the spring or if I can come up with a gps, maybe Ill go out and give it a try on the local highways with a rolling start.
His results were really on the edge. His speed only being .002 % above limit and his eyeballing the tack where withing the limits of error. You might want to keep an eye on that thread to see what he finds out.
http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=1&TID=26632&set_time=
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havin it
Novice Class
Posts: 32
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posted November 16, 2006 09:49 AM
im waiting on ryans feedback on the g-pack before i buy one,im thinking of pairing one with a speedohealer.need to deristrict before i shell out for the pipe+pc.in the meantime im sorting the chassis.having the forks reworked for a lightweight rider,want a stock looking adjustable clutch lever,looking for a "shark fin" type hugger (similar looking to r1/r6)also looking for some wavey discs that look like zx10/zx6 discs and probably some other stuff as i think of it.any info will be gratefully recieved
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DrRyanScarsella
Expert Class
Posts: 113
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posted November 17, 2006 06:21 AM
I used the G pack and barely eeeekkkkked over the limiter. Its hard at 186 to really get a close look at the tach and see if its extending the revs. Nikko claims that the G pack extends the 6th gear rev limiter to 10900, as opposed to 10200 In 6th. I felt like it was pulling hard and did not hit a limiter in 6th, but whos to say if I had another fraction of a second that it might have come on.
Brock derestricted a 14 with a yellow box and gearing and Im sure the 14s ecu is similar to an 05 12r, its at least 32 bit, so if it works with the 14, it should work with the 12.
That being said, a guy with a 04 has modded his ecu and harness himself and is supposed to send this info to me. I met him at maxton and his 12 went 202-203 and its an 04 model. If I get this info Ill share with you guys. I think he may have altered the actual rev limiter out put to the ecu, so that it cant kick in. Not exactly sure though. We are working on it.
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capt10ed
Expert Class
Posts: 327
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posted November 18, 2006 07:58 AM
Dr. the suspense is killiing me....
____________
2014 Loring AFB 14 runs over 200mph
with a best of 208.1 in 1.5 miles
and 204.5 in the mile.
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tuusinii
Pro
Posts: 1031
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posted November 20, 2006 12:13 AM
If I remember right the hack for speed restriction on 01-03 bikes with RR:s instruction - the actual signal that goes to the speed input of ECU dosen't never show more than 10-15MPH? So maybe in the later model maybe the signal just has to be closer to the actual value of the speed, because it has been stated that adjusting the speed signal on ZX14 works. Maybe they just upped the limit which is considered "normal" operation and so You can't use the tach signal anymore but need more advanced electronics to make the signal slower. First (and probably easiest) guess would be to make a circuit that would remove half of the pulses so th ECU would see half of the actual speed.
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted November 20, 2006 08:00 AM
the G pack increases the revs in 6th to only 10900? The bike revs to 11625 what gives...
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drryanscarsella
Expert Class
Posts: 113
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posted November 20, 2006 10:19 AM
This is what Nikko sent me, the Gpack extends the rev limit to 10900 in 6th gear. I think that the 6th gear limiter kicks on at 10200 around 186, although not positive on specifics. That is what they told me when I researched.
I have contacted the ECTA about this gent personal information and await return info from them. I will keep you guys posted, I have been working on this for almost a year now and have no plans to give up until it is done. They wrote back that they were going to look for the info and get back to me. I am on the hunt. For those who cant wait, get a yellow box and a gps and give it a try. I have a gps coming and I plan on going out and seeing what it will do on the highway one night when the weather isnt so cold and rainy. Also, get a 19 tooth front sprocket, this way with gearing, you will be faster then the speedo can read.
Does anyone know positively, where the speedo reading device is, is it at the output shaft?
I am no comp programmer or whiz, but I can make a few conclusions with some information.
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tuusinii
Pro
Posts: 1031
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posted November 20, 2006 10:34 AM
Yes, the speed sensor is near the front sprocket!
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drryanscarsella
Expert Class
Posts: 113
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posted November 20, 2006 12:23 PM
Ok then, I am certain that a 19 tooth sprocket and yellow box combo could work. Just like the 14 brock got to go 200. So I will be running the g pack, the yellow box, and hopefully a 19 tooth at the next maxton. Once I get the gps, i will try and make a run on a warmer day too. Maybe warmer night. Once its done Illpost up here to just to verify. I have a stretch thats about 2 mile to test on.
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shane661
Needs a life
Posts: 11494
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posted November 20, 2006 03:04 PM
Edited By: shane661 on 20 Nov 2006 15:06
quote:
This is what Nikko sent me, the Gpack extends the rev limit to 10900 in 6th gear. I think that the 6th gear limiter kicks on at 10200 around 186, although not positive on specifics. That is what they told me when I researched.
I have contacted the ECTA about this gent personal information and await return info from them. I will keep you guys posted, I have been working on this for almost a year now and have no plans to give up until it is done. They wrote back that they were going to look for the info and get back to me. I am on the hunt. For those who cant wait, get a yellow box and a gps and give it a try. I have a gps coming and I plan on going out and seeing what it will do on the highway one night when the weather isnt so cold and rainy. Also, get a 19 tooth front sprocket, this way with gearing, you will be faster then the speedo can read.
Does anyone know positively, where the speedo reading device is, is it at the output shaft?
I am no comp programmer or whiz, but I can make a few conclusions with some information.
10900 is just not enough. I was probably turning around 11300 or so on my top run. You need to get the bike into the powerband. Gearing the bike for 10900 in top gear is not going to get you where you want to be.
Maybe this will work...and it's free:
http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=27&TID=27337&set_time=
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drryanscarsella
Expert Class
Posts: 113
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posted November 20, 2006 03:42 PM
I understand that but you were geared pretty low for maxton, like 17-47 or something. That might explain the difference there, and you were going 184 ish. with enough power to the sprocket, I am going to try 19-42 or 41 for the spring and it shoudl fool the ecu into thinking it going a bit slower, along with the yellow box, i think this will get it done. It may be good now, i am awaiting a gps for some more test and tune around here with the pc111. I finally got myself a laptop to bring out too. I was looking at the innovate unit for logging with a pc for adjusting A/f ratios. Save a little money off of the pc wideband, and it has a few more functions as well.
I talked to muzzy about derestriction of the 05, they didnt want to try to help. Yellow box just had no answer or evidence, g pack made the claim, but no proof yet. If I can gps 188 on a stretch, Illpost up but need a week or so. I am still awaiting the ecta to respond to my mail, I talked to Keith Turk and he is on the mission to get me the info. So I am still working on it.
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