thekaz
Needs a job
spell chequer is bustimicated
Posts: 2909
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posted October 26, 2006 08:47 PM
Interesting that neutral is digital while gear selection is analog....
Ridge it may confuse some becuase it's "ground switching".
I have the same problem in my industry as most mechanics assume everything in positive switched but most ambulance wiring systems are negative switched . Much less amperage through switches and many modern flashers & sirens are ground logic...
BUT back to this thread ......
In your study of the ECU and it's internal mapping is there a gear that produces more power assuming ram air is not a factor. Does it seem that first,second and maybe third are being purposely retarted ? To keep wheelies to a minimum for example...
  
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted October 27, 2006 05:39 AM
 Edited By: ridgeracer on 27 Oct 2006 06:50
At some future point in time I will be able to answer that question in great detail but at this point any discussion on the effect of the raw map data is just guess work. I learned my lesson on an earlier thread about manipulating the water temp input to the ECU in an attempt to richen the fuel during a NOS shot.
I traced down the map data for the water temp input, graphed it and posted it and then started speculating on how it affected the injection. Of course I later discovered it was actually compensatation data used to factor out the non linearity of the water temp sensor.
Having said that I will share this data with you.
I have no idea what the X and Y axis represent except that for a given Gear and a given Y the map returns X. Is it RPM? Temperature? At this point your guess is as good as mine. It is obvious however that the data for gears 1-4 is very different from 5 and 6.
Also I should explain that these graphs are the raw map points. Usually only 24 bytes. This keeps the MAP about 10 times smaller than it would be otherwise. The routine that uses them is input a number between 0-255 and returns a value based on those 24 bits. It uses a math algorithm to find a value somewhere on the slope created by two adjacent data points. In other words a graph of the actual data derived from the map would be more 'curvey' and less 'spikey'.
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zrexpilot
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted October 27, 2006 02:50 PM
I see said the blind man. I now understand how it all works.
Now for the million dollar question. Do you think that if a trick my '04 into thinking its in 5th gear it will bypass the speed restriction.
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12r1
Expert Class
Posts: 390
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posted October 28, 2006 05:45 AM
This is awesome, learning about possible hidden performance on my "old" 12R.
I definetely think 6th gear, on my '02, pulls very hard. I can't wait to ground out 5th, or 6th, and see how it runs through the gears. I'm looking for boost from a second gear roll, up through a couple gears. That's about where all the squids let off....
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ridgeracer
Pro
Posts: 1309
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posted October 28, 2006 07:31 AM
quote:
Do you think that if a trick my '04 into thinking its in 5th gear it will bypass the speed restriction
The short answer is maybe.
The long answer is starting in 2004 the ZX-12 ECU was upgraded from the original 16 bit design, which I am working on, to the newer 32bit design used in the zx-6 and zx-10. In the older design you could bypass the speed restriction by putting a fake signal down the Yellow speed wire into the ECU. (interesting choice of color for the wire that limits how fast you can go  )
It came as no suprise to me that as part of redesign kawasaki did something to prevent faking out the ecu via the speed wire. Funny thing is the speed wire is still connected to the ECU.
Now the truth is they never really needed the speed wire in the first place. If the ECU knows the Engine RPM, the transmission and final drive ratios, tire size, AND what gear the bike is in it can calculate the bike speed. I suspect tapping off the existing speedo wire was the cheapest/quickest way to add the restriction to the orginal design without having to do a major rewrite of the software. Of course if you have to rewrite all the software for the new ecu why not throw a gear based speed restriction in there. But then why still have the speedo wire?
Well the gear based restriction would be even easier to fake out than the speedo based restriction. You don't even need to buy anything. Just mess with the gear position switch. Neither method is fool proof. If I was trying to design a better speedtrap what would I do?
And then I remember how the ECU handles the Neutral on the gear position. It considers the bike in neutral if the neutral line is pulled low OR no gear is selected. What if the new ECUs use the same design idea, restrict the bike if the speedo signal is over 186 OR the bike is in 6th gear and the RPMs exceed some limit?
People would first try a known fix like the bonneville box and find it didn't work because unknown to them the ECU would restrict off the gear calculation. People might next try faking 5th gear thinking it might be a gear based restriction but that wouldn't work because the ECU would restrict off speedo signal.
Would anyone think to try both at the same time?
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zrexpilot
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted October 29, 2006 02:44 PM
Edited By: zrexpilot on 29 Oct 2006 14:48
Well I already have the speedo recalibrator, set for 16-49 gearing because I am mostly a straight liner. I have been wanting to do the Texas mile but not knowing what would bypass the speed limiter I havent tried. But if I were to overcorrect my speedo and run fifth gear signal, It seems impossible not to work Huh ?
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NOS1290
Expert Class
Posts: 103
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posted November 13, 2006 01:05 PM
Found the root cause of my "leaning out" problem. If you recall I have always experienced a slight richening of the A/F as speed increases. At the same RPM, I have seen the A/F richen from ~13.5 in first to 13.2 in fifth or sixth. Lately I noticed that the datalogger indicated that the motor was leaning out the faster I went. ???
Turns out it was casued by running the bike without a rear seat cover. This may sound obvious, but at speed, the rear air pressure sensor was seeing the wrong ambient air pressure at speed. The ZX12 uses two pressure sensors (one in the manifold and one in the tailsection) and uses the differential to calculate the richening at higher speeds. If you leave the cover off, the wind over your back makes the rear sensor read high, and the motor leans out. I put the rear cover back on and the problem went away.
I wanted to solve the root cause problem before I jumpered the gear position switch to 4th gear.
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