Ninjaman12R
Needs a job
as a Deal's Gap tour guide.
Posts: 4767
|
posted May 08, 2002 11:09 AM
Is this the norm for dealerships????
As most of you know Chaparral has got the best prices on the BT010s. $202.00 deivered for front and rear, pretty damned reasonable if you ask me. My only problem is this, the only motorcycle dealership we've got charges 1/2 an hour labor to mount and balance a tire, which works out to $23 before tax. That's just too damned much IMHO, and I told the shop manager that over the phone, just a few minutes ago. He said well it'd be better if you bought the tires through us. I said how so, then he said we'd only charge you $13.90 per tire on the mounting and balancing. I then told him they are too damned high on their tires, by a long shot. He then went through the 2nds and Blems story that every shop across the country uses to justify why their tire is more expensive. You all know the story right? Well I told him I'd buy "his" tires if he'd quit trying to make $50 a tire on me. So he tells me he'd sell me the 010s for $225 THEN mount and balance them at $13.90 a tire. Which will end up costing me $5 more than what it cost me now. WTF?????
But in all honesty I will pay $5 more to spend my money locally and support a dealership and its' employees. He said he would start stocking them for me and that will be better than waiting for the UPS truck every couple of months I guess. I still think they'd do a lot more business if they were more reasonable. How are some of you guys' dealerships when it comes to this?
I have a friend that works for a large dealership and I can take my stuff there and get it done free, but it's a 45 mile drive and not really worth the trouble.
____________
What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.
Sheriff Buford T. Justice of TEXAS
  
|
Otis
Needs a job
Captain Kickstand
Posts: 3028
|
posted May 08, 2002 11:51 AM
Totally normal Rick, you just need to try to get them to the lowest price possible. They are pissed cause mail orders have taken all their tire business. Kensington, my dealership cuts me a deal and instead of 1/2 hour each tire which would be $64 for a set, charges me $50 cause Im a good customer. Check this out though, I read on a local forum about a fella that got his two tires done at another dealership (scamming mofo's for sure) and they charged him $105!!!!!!! to mount and balance. I told him he got fucked.
|
Otis
Needs a job
Captain Kickstand
Posts: 3028
|
posted May 08, 2002 11:52 AM
One other thing though is my dealership does not charge ANYTHING if you but the tires through them, but the tires will still cost more than buying them mail order and paying the money to have them M & B.
|
12RPilot
Pro
Posts: 1094
|
posted May 08, 2002 12:05 PM
I just paid $30 to have a mail order Rennsport mounted (I carried in the wheel) I bitched and he gave me $5 back. I need to get some spoons amd weights.
____________
If you aren't an AMA member, you're part of the problem.
NESBA #209
http://www.bikepics.com/members/12rpilot/04zx10r/
 
|
zrxzx12r1
Novice Class
Posts: 34
|
posted May 08, 2002 12:07 PM
Guys what you should do if you can is get the tires cheap and then take your wheels and tires to a race meeting. If you are lucky you can get them done for $10.00 a wheel.
S.
|
your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
|
posted May 08, 2002 12:18 PM
I agree...I paid 35 to have both 010s mounted and balanced.
All dealerships I called wanted outrageous prices ~some over 150 dollars~ to mount and balance if the tire was not purchased at the dealership. Yet all said mount/balance was free if the tire was purchased there.
____________
Do not taunt happy fun ball!
|
zx1012r
Expert Class
Posts: 125
|
posted May 08, 2002 01:05 PM
I work at a car dealer. We have a centerless tire machine (same as the m/cycle dealer) so I can mount them myself. Ever try mounting a 190/50 with spoons? Wow what a bitch. Any way I bought an extra set of wheel bearings and set the wheel up with the axle supported on the extra bearings on jack stands. Spray the bearings with WD40 to get all the grease out so they spin real nice. Then put stick on weights opposite the heavy spot till they're balanced. I tested this balance procedure against a balancer and was within .25 ounce. (They balance like this at the track, except they have $200.00 bearings mounted on a stand).
Anyway my point: Maybe a local car dealer or repair shop (not Town Fair Tire etc.) will mount them for you for a more reasonable cost and then do your own balancing. This was my solution to the high price at the dealer.
|
22348bCVC
Zone Head
Posts: 798
|
posted May 08, 2002 03:46 PM
that's it...I'm pissed...I'm buyin' my own mutha'freekin' tire changer (I wish  )...its the same here in SoCal...$12 if you bought the tire from them/$24 if you bring in a tire bought from elsewhere...just like how the gas in the well goes from $1.65 to $1.95 overnite...the same gas...they're the same tire mounted the same way ferchrissakes!!!...ok, charge me $5 more but not double to use your facility...don't I buy other stuff from this store as well?
____________
...just relax...my dog wants to use only one of your legs...
|
ohitstodd
Novice Class
Posts: 73
|
posted May 08, 2002 04:28 PM
 Edited By: ohitstodd on 8 May 2002 17:30
My bro-inlaw used to do them for a local shop..he got paid 2 1/2 bucks a tire!!(we all know how much grunt work is involved)..and we're talking lots of racing wheel/tire combos with beadlocks. He told his boss, it wasn't worth his time..
Me, I get mine done by a local tire shop..it's a car store, but they do bike tires as well..10.00 a piece. I do know the owner pretty well. I may be getting a smokin' deal.
|
redelk
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
Posts: 3212
|
posted May 08, 2002 05:20 PM
My take on this
I'm sure some of us here have developed a good long term relationship with their dealer. I also sure that some could not get in tight with them if they offered their first born to the dealer. Some dealers think they are just being "professional". Others are just being dicks because they know there really isn't anywhere else you can go.
In any case, I feel that I've been lucky enough to have a 11 year relationship with my dealer and was actually both a "paid" and a "volunteer" employee of his. I worked solely in the parts department and spent most of the time just stocking parts and occasionally waiting on customers. To this very day, I still get my employee discount and can go into the parts department, use their computers, pull my own parts and look through the dealer's copies of their various catalogs. I see not only the dealer's cost on the items I order, but I also find out about "seasonal specials" and clearance sales.
DEALER vs. MAIL ORDER/INTERNET TIRE PRICES
Most dealers get their tires from Tucker Rocky, Parts Unlimited and a few other places. The average price they usually pay is HIGHER then what you could get from MAW, Dennis Kirk or Chaparral. Usually not by much and it could actually be a little less (when placing "quantity" orders), but in most cases, it's a little bit more.
The exception to this is when their vendor has a special sale. They have them quite often and sometimes they will actually overlap each other. It can range from a specific sale on tires or one of those "if your order this much stuff..." kind of deals. A wise parts manager will try to order his stock inventory of tires at this time. This will give the dealer the option of marking down his tires a little and still not really dent their profit margin.
Now when you walk in their door and order a tire they don't have in stock, there might be a special going on and there might not be. If it's a brand that the dealer doesn't normally carry, he'll be ordering just the one tire for you and many of the special deals from their distributor won't apply. Sometimes, even deals on free shipping won't apply since tires cost more to ship. My dealer basically carries only Dunlops for street bikes. They have just started carrying some Michelins and a few Bridgestones, but most of them were orders that were never picked up. Needless to say, they get a much better price on their Dunlops then other brands.
The MSRP for tires from Tucker Rocky, Parts Unlimited and all the rest, is nothing short of outrageous. Still, this just give the dealer an opportunity to really look good to the customer by marking down the price a little. On the flip side, it also allows a "less customer friendly" dealer to make a killing. One thing I do know for sure. The average dealer is not that concerned over lost tire sales to mail order or internet venders. They will either charge you "full price" for mounting and balancing or in the case of some dealers, they won't even mount them at all.
For example, MSRP for my Rennsports were $250.95 & $202.95. MAW lists them for $147.95 & $119.95 (+ shipping). Because of my discount (cost +10%) and they probably had some kind of special going on, my cost was $140.59 & $113.74. If I went back and ordered the same tires today and there wasn't a special going on, the price would be different. Since a very limited number of folks get employee discounts, I could only guess that my dealer would try to sell them to the "average Joe" for around 10~15% off of MSRP.
The aspect of these mail order and internet places having a lower price due to "blems" or factory "seconds" is kind of a stretch of the truth, if you ask me. To the best of my knowledge (which ain't much), I'm not so sure such a tire exists. I'm hard pressed to believe that tire manufacturers would even take such legal risks as to distribute such a tire and allow it to be sold to the public without any form of disclaimer.
I believe that there are three reasons why they can sell them for the price that they do.
1. The sheer quantity they order dwarfs even the largest of dealerships. Short of Tucker Rocky or Parts Unlimited, I doubt that there is any other place that orders in the numbers that they do.
2. Mail order places use tires as a "loss leader". In other words, the will slash their profit margin on tires to entice you to order from them and hope that you will by other accessories from them. Just like tires, they buy a large quantity of a variety of accessories from various manufacturers. By selling the accessories at a price similar to what a local dealer would, the profit margin is much higher, thus making up for the reduced profit margin on tires.
3. They buy tires from other dealers that are overstocked or have gone bankrupt. Sounds like BS? Think about it. MAW still has some D204 rear tires for sale. How long has it been since Dunlop quite making D204 tires? Another way is to check the DOT number on the side of the tire for the tire's manufacturing date. Compare the one from the mail order place against the one you get from your dealer. Not every time, but quite often, the one from the mail order place will be manufactured a lot earlier then the one you'd get from you dealer.
Not that this is a serious safety issue, because it's not. The point is that if these mail order places are so big and they move so many tires, why would the tire you get from them be OLDER then one you'd get from your dealer? Don't they move a lot of tires? It's not like these mail order places move out the newer tires first and then sell the older ones. Most likely, it's because they had just bought the inventory of a bankrupt dealer. Like I said, it's not that one tire is better then the other because of it's age (to a degree). It just explains one of the methods used by such vendors to offer you a lower price.
TIRE MOUNTING AND BALANCING
If I remember correctly the going rate at my dealer is $25 or $30 a tire. You might get some knocked off if you just bring in just the wheel. If you bring in your own tire, you'll pay full price no matter what. After having many tires changed at the full $25, I eventually started just paying the mechanic $10 cash (while the guys in the parts dept. and owner just looked the other way). It didn't take long before the mechanic got tired of taking my money and just showed me how to mount and balance them myself.
For a while after they got their Snap On spin balancer, he and I were the only ones who knew how to use the damn thing. I was showing others in the shop on how to use it. Over the years, my dealer has had a few shop managers. Some didn't mind me being back there and others would get really pissed. Even the ones that would get pissed off eventually calmed down after I would mount and balance a few of their customers tires during times they were really slammed. Of course, that would make everybody happy since it would be pure profit for the dealer.
This is my point... profit. It can be such an ugly word from in eyes of the consumer. This is especially true when it comes to motorcyclists. Part of it is due to the crappy attitude of some dealers, part of it is due to the GENEROUS attitude of some dealers (many who are no longer in business) and part of it is due to the unrealistic expectations of SOME (not all) customers. In reality, "profit" means more then just money in a dealer's pocket. It's electric bills, salaries and so on.
This is not to say that there are not dealers out there that will RAPE you like a priest. Sadly, there are more of those then there are good dealers that try to work with you. It's just that one needs to keep those factors in mind when discussing the prices for products and services. Having a dealer mount a tire from some other source would be like having you car dealer use the parts you brought instead of theirs. Not the best way to make friends with your dealer.
Still, like I said, for many, they have no choice. There isn't another dealer around that they can go to. I assure you, I'd be riding a GSXR 1000 instead of my 12R right now, if it wasn't for that very reason. Even the local Busa and Gixxer owners won't go to our local Suzuki dealer for parts and service. I couldn't deal with that. I'm willing to pay for service. GOOD SERVICE, that is. If it means that I have to pay a little more for it, so be it. If such service isn't available, one would be an IDIOT to not look for alternatives. I know that in a pinch, my auto repair buddy can mount a tire for me at his shop.
THE BOTTOM LINE
For the longest time, we had a small sign on the wall in our front office. It read, "The Bitterness Of Poor Quality Lingers Long After The Sweetness Of Low Price Is Forgotten". The same applies to who I do business with. If I have a problem with a product or service, I find it much easier to get "issues" resolved face to face then calling some 800 number. The phrase "I know where you live" just doesn't seem to carry the same amount of weight when said over a phone to someone 3 states away.
There was a time that I paid MSRP for everything I bought from my dealer. When I had the racing team and out of the 8 bikes, 5 of them were green, I got a 10~15% discount. It took several years (and a few cases of beer) to get the discount I now receive. It was only because I showed a commitment to a dealer that I felt was fair, did he feel that it was worth it to give me that discount. There were a few (very few) times I felt he was ripping me off, but I stuck with him.
In many cases, even the worst of dealers will "warm up" to a dedicated customer. I know that most of us are not made of money. Often, neither is the dealer. A long time ago, someone posted about how ALL dealers were rip offs and a perfect example was to just look at what the owner drove home in every night. When I read that, I fell out of my chair from laughing so hard! My dealer drive a ratted out pick up and his brother (the parts manager) was driving their late grandmother's Delta 98 for the longest time. Now he's got a Intrepid. Oooooooooooo... there's a pair of high dollar vehicles!
Sure, my dealer has taken some nice vacations and has a decent home. After starting a motorcycle dealership and being successful in keeping his doors open for over 11 years (been in the Top 10 for over 5 years), one would think he deserves as much. I'm actually happy that I paid for part of it.
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
|
kawachan
Pro
Posts: 1031
|
posted May 08, 2002 09:39 PM
Good one Red!!
My dealer is more than happy to order me tires and match online prices or at least get close. He asks me what I can get it for, then I bring in my rim and he mounts it for $10. What a deal!! Used to be $5, but he must have heard how much other dealers charge. Plus, I bring in all my buddies so he sells a few more every year. Almost always has at least four or five sets of what we like to buy in stock. Classic example of "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours!"
____________
RED NINJAS RULE!!
|
TurboBlew
Moderator
BUSY DOING THE SCHIAVO
Posts: 4590
|
posted May 09, 2002 03:45 AM
Im with ya on the poor quality issue Redelk. Ive gotten so fed up with dinged and scratched wheels that Im acutally considering purchasing a COMPLETE tire mounting and balancing rig. It may set me back $2-4k, but I plan on offering my services until I make the money back.
Usually I measure the quality of work someone does by the simple things. Most of the local shops in Jax (with the exception of K Cadby's new employer) do a crappy job on simple things. (chains, tires, etc)
If a shop cant to *little* jobs efficiently, what the hell would they do on a larger more complex job??
____________
Official Charter Member of the RIDERS OF KAWASAKI MEMBERSHIP REVOCATION CLUB
Also a BadAss Internet Forum Moderator 4 Hire!! Come at me brah!
|
Ninjaman12R
Needs a job
as a Deal's Gap tour guide.
Posts: 4767
|
posted May 09, 2002 03:52 AM
Excellent Feedback....
Thanks for your input guys, it seems as if this IS the norm. I went to the dealership yesterday and had my front mounted. The guy who mounted and balanced the tire is a younger guy who rides a Gixxer 1k. I rode with him a little early this year, on the weekend of all the street races down on GRR. He only charged me $15 to do it, which was fine by me. The shop manager and the dealership owner talked to me about the whole tire situation and I'm gonna go ahead and start getting my tires there, like I said, I'll pay an extra $5 to support a local dealership (the only one we have now!!!!) and its' employees. Hell I've gotta drive there to get my shit mounted and balanced anyways, I might as well buy the tire there too. Plus redelk is right about more or less building a relationship with the dealer. It's not a bad thing.
The fucked up thing is that I can get all of this done for nothing but it's at another dealership 45 miles away. But I used to get my tires/wheels and take them to my buddy's house, who is the sales manager at said dealership, and he only lives about 7 miles from me. He'd take them in to work the next day and have one of the guys in the shop do the mounting and balancing for nada, zilch, $0.00, not a goddamned thing. Also every once and again I would be over that way and just take them in myself and they never even attempted to charge me. In other words "I have a hook up". This has allowed me to save tons of money on parts too, anything I want for dealer cost. But my buddy and his dealership have recently fucked over a couple of my friends and I'm kinda pissed at him and the owner of the dealership. I know I'm probably burning a bridge but I'm upset with them and I don't want to be around them, even long enough to get free work done. I never got all my tires mounted using the "Hook Up". I used the dealership here in town from time to time, which only made the hook up look even better. But fuck the hook up, I'll pay like everyone else and support the one and only dealership in town. They've tried for years to work out something with me on my tires, but until yesterday we never even got close. I know the owner of the dealership, and have ridden with him on occassion, he's a pretty decent guy, but not the best guy to deal with on bikes, much less any accessories. But he and his shop manager talked to me and are giving me a pretty fair deal, an AWESOME deal if you compare it to some of the bullshit they have tried to "offer" me in the past.
They know how may times I've been there since I've bought the 12, and I told them they haven't mounted but about half the tires I've put on it. They ordered me 3 rear tires and a one front yesterday. 
____________
What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.
Sheriff Buford T. Justice of TEXAS
|
djZX12
Expert Class
Posts: 131
|
posted May 09, 2002 04:08 AM
Rick, You must be talking about Butch's Dealership. They have always been high on everything including their bikes.
They mounted some tires for me several years ago. They did a nice job, spin balanced and all. But it was the most I ever had to pay for tire mounting.
Hank charged extra for spin balancing because it was his machine. Hank quit at one time and took his machine with him. I don't know if he is back there now or not.
____________
Have a Nice Day !!
|
Ninjaman12R
Needs a job
as a Deal's Gap tour guide.
Posts: 4767
|
posted May 09, 2002 04:27 AM
Damn Dj, you know "Fucking" Hank LOL
Yep it's Butch's in D'Burg.
Is Hank not a trip???? That fucking guy kills me, contrary fucker. LOL No he isn't at Butch's anymore, but his balancer still is. That fucking thing has balanced SEVERAL tires of mine over the years. Do you remember when Hank had his shop in Newbern??? He worked mostly on Hardleys, but jap bikes too. He was a riot, said the word fuck more than I do. LOL He was fun to be around though as long as you weren't the one he was trying to fly off on.
____________
What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.
Sheriff Buford T. Justice of TEXAS
|
pat830
Expert Class
Posts: 135
|
posted May 09, 2002 04:35 AM
I just had some Pilot Sports mounted.
My dealer said the next time I needed tires to get them from him and he would match the price or get real close and charge me half for mounting. Next time, they get my business.
|
zx12richard
Pro
The Green Monster..
Posts: 1133
|
posted May 09, 2002 05:31 AM
Here its $25 if tire is off the bike mount and balance $50 if its on the bike.........
|
blkrnbow
Expert Class
Posts: 115
|
posted May 09, 2002 08:05 AM
redelk
Another reason some Inet mail orders are cheaper are bulk discounts on shipping. When they contract though lets say UPS for X number of orders a day or week or whatever, they charginbg what the shipping co would charge for shipping but getting a (for lack of better term) kick back through them as well.
Brian
|
kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
|
posted May 09, 2002 07:41 PM
Edited By: kcadby on 9 May 2002 20:43
Thank's TurboBlew...wheel-bearing & spacers will be done tomorrow I ended up useing a MUCH better/SAFER spacer set-up 
Changed a rear tire ON a VTX today...for WAY too cheap considering how hard it was (quoted on phone)...
Axle was rusted already thank's to poor assembly/prep  ...
Had to remove the mufZOOKA to remove the axle without damgaing it...STILL took the time to "do it right"
cleaned everything up and greased so it should? NEVER happen again...owner was happy and I'm pretty sure??? he will be back for future tire change(s)
|
djZX12
Expert Class
Posts: 131
|
posted May 10, 2002 05:53 AM
Edited By: djZX12 on 10 May 2002 06:55
Yeah, I knew Hank.
We was a good mechanic, but not as good as he thought he was, yes he was a trip.
I wanted to change the sprocket on my 89 1100 Katana, one of the retards working at Butch's looked it up and said they didn't make one. They didn't try to see if the GSXR-1100 sprocket would fit both bikes, they didn't do anything for me. Anytime I went down there, they couldn't do anything.
I bought a 92 Intruder from them, it ran lean. I asked Hank some questions about the carbs. He gave me a lecture about leaving it stock, like he would any new kid with a bike. Fuck him, I had already been riding for 26 years when I talked to him. I had rejeted my 85 FJ-1100 Yamaha, geared it and put pipes on it. It was the best running FJ around at the time. But when I bought a Suzuki, these assholes couldn't help with anything.
Did you know John Morris? He was the parts man at the Outdoor store for the first several years. He knew his shit and could get you anything you needed for Yamaha. He ended up getting a Yamaha FJ-1200 and he rode it everywhere. I heard he did very well at the drags with it too.
Butch's Suzuki did one thing for me, they made me swear off of Suzuki forever. I don't care how fast they are or how fast they go around a curve.
____________
Have a Nice Day !!
|
Ninjaman12R
Needs a job
as a Deal's Gap tour guide.
Posts: 4767
|
posted May 10, 2002 07:10 AM
Yeah.....
Dj,
Man you've got Hank pegged for sure. I used to get him fired up just for entertainment. He'd cuss and raise hell no matter who was around. LOL Since the Great Outdoor Store closed, Butch's has the only game in town so to speak. So I am trying to put all the stupid shit I've seen, and heard there, in the back of my mind. We really need a GOOD bike shop in this area that has some qualified technicians, not 4-Wheeler and "Personal Watercraft" mechanics. But I actually think Butch's place is improving a little. Time will tell.
I don't know this guy John. Funny though I used to have an FJ1200 (91 model), you'd think I would know the guy, especially from the store. I'm sure I've probably talked to the guy, but just don't remember him. All that good herb has taken it's toll I guess.
____________
What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.
Sheriff Buford T. Justice of TEXAS
|
djZX12
Expert Class
Posts: 131
|
posted May 10, 2002 07:44 AM
I like Butch as a person, I guess he is just doing what it takes to stay a float with his prices. If you have worked out a deal with Butch on tires and mounting, that is great.
Hank did the best job of mounting a tire I have ever seen. He took extra time to remount a tire he didn't think was reading right on his balancer. Most people would have just put on extra weights to counter balance.
It turned out that the dot was on the wrong side of the tire. When he re-did it, the tire took very little weight.
He might not have caught it, but it was a Metzler tire and most of them are not that far out of balance.
____________
Have a Nice Day !!
|
Ninjaman12R
Needs a job
as a Deal's Gap tour guide.
Posts: 4767
|
posted May 10, 2002 09:20 AM
Hey Dj???
How many times did Hank say the word "fuck" when he was mounting your tire????
____________
What we're dealin' with here is a complete lack of respect for the law.
Sheriff Buford T. Justice of TEXAS
|
lou_zx12r
Expert Class
One Day at a Time
Posts: 196
|
posted May 10, 2002 10:02 AM
tire work
Well I just went through this several weeks ago. The dealer near me (i purchased my bike there & lots of parts) couldn't do my tires. I walked in with tire in hand and they said "Leave it for a few days, maybe we can get to it" on top of that they said it would be 1 hour rate for mounting & $12/each balancing. I decided to do my own from that point on. I purchased the tools, make my own wheel static balancer and finished my bike in 3 hours. The next week I did my wife's ZX9R it only took a little over 2 hours to do both tires. Doing it yourself is not hard just take it slow until your comfortable with the process. Now I don't have to worry about the expense of wearing out the tires too soon and I use the money saved for something else. 
____________
2000 ZX12R 40shot
2012 ZX14R
2009 Concours 14
|
|
|
|
|
HOME
NEW TOPIC