navpreet318
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posted September 06, 2006 06:26 PM
O2 sensor bung in an arata titanium system
i need help guys....
i have just bought an arata.....
i need to hook up my wideband unit.....the bosch sensor will have to be welded into the pipe....
how do i do that.....
i've gone through this that titanium cannot be welded openly....
http://www.eod.gvsu.edu/eod/manufact/manufact-166.html
so now if i have to weld it i need a bung in titanium.....where can i source this......
and if there is any other way than welding ...what is it.....like bolting the sensor in any way....
let me know guys.....
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blitzkrieg
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posted September 06, 2006 06:44 PM
Navpreet,
Since your pipe is here, and your bung is going to be here, maybe you want my machine shop guy to weld it for you?
Maynard @ Flodyne here in Denver. If he can't weld it, nobody can. 
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navpreet318
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posted September 07, 2006 12:21 AM
well the welding has to be done while flooding it with inert gas.....if you can get it done it'll be the best thing.....
i think instead of the collector the mid pipe would be a better option.....
and you'll have to position it so that it doesn't interfere with the bike's underbody......
man i can't thank you enough......THANK YOU.......
also the sensor is about 8-10 cms long....and the part which projects out of pipe will be nearly 6-7 cms long....so whereever you get it welded it should have a clearence of about 6-7 cms.....
also the bung will have to be welded in the top 60 degrees area of the pipe's circumference to protect it from water condensation.....
____________
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slug
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posted September 07, 2006 03:45 AM
you should be able to find a competant muffler shop to do it as well, just be sure they are aware it is titanium.
The pipe will be too narrow to thread in, the ONLY other option i could think of would be to thread a nut on the inside and a jamnut ont he outside. Not sure what kind of loctite you could use to hold it in place, maybe a REALLY aggressive lockwasher on both sides?
8-10cm? or should that be mm?
the sensor i used on my track 600r had a 15mm tip. it was welded in at about 80 degrees from straight down, which keeps it above the 'water' level. so far 2-3 years of use i've never had a problem.
   
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navpreet318
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posted September 07, 2006 06:36 AM
no i'm not talking about the sensor tip....i'm talking about the whole sensor assembly....its metal and has a length of 8-10 cms.....so it has to be cleared from the engine underbody.....
the tip is 15mm alright......well if you didn't have any problem then it should do its job pretty well down there....
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VincentHill
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posted September 07, 2006 07:43 AM
What they do is put a Tennis Ball in the end of the pipe and at the other end a Ball with a tube supplying the Argon which the Welding is being done. This is another problem in having a TI Pipe as opposed to SS
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Y2KZX12R
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posted September 07, 2006 09:00 AM
You need to bring it to a professional weld shop or at least someone who is a GOOD tig welder. They will need to backpurge the section of pipe and you will need to supply a titanium o2 bung. the TI pipes are supper thin and the bung is very thick so if the guy doesnt know how to control the heat he will make holes and a general mess of your nice pipe. You'll want to run a heated o2 sensor sense you cant wrap the TI pipe to keep the heat in to keep the o2 sensor hot. The heated ones start to work faster also.
This is where I put the o2 in my pipe. Its a yosh stainless duplex pipe.
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navpreet318
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posted September 07, 2006 09:41 AM
so how were the results ....i think thats a fairly good position....btw they say it should be mounted as close as possible to the headers........
thanks for the pic.....thats clearly a good reference for mounting the o2 sensor........
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navpreet318
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posted September 07, 2006 09:44 AM
i was initially in the favour of a SS system....would have gone for an akra...but seeing the awesome offer at ebay....792$...the arata was too good to resist.....
also the bung is ti...and hopefully this will be a good setup.....
also which AF monitor are you guys using....
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Y2KZX12R
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posted September 07, 2006 10:45 AM
Yes, you want it as close to the head and still have it see the average from all 4 cylinders. So it needs to be where its a single pipe. So these limit its location. My pipe is wrapped so the heat is retained back to the o2.
This is an excelent choice... the LM-1.
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products.php
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slug
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posted September 07, 2006 11:23 AM
i used the autozone bling bling a/f meter, not the best i am sure, but it did the trick.
again, this is on a 600r so the header location may not look exactly the same. But the idea is the same.
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navpreet318
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posted September 07, 2006 11:45 AM
well i won't be using an AF meter or LCD...instead i'll be using the palm m500 to datalog the result...and then chek it and make adjustments on the PC3 USB.....
coz using a display would be useless.....i'll need to have very precise info at all rpm's.....
just waiting for my palm serial cable
btw i'm using this....
www.zeitronix.com
i'm using the ZT2 model...its been rated top of the line......and is a very professional unit.....and it gives me a host of options other then the AF metering.....and if i ever setup a turbo on a bike or can...it'll even give me boost pressures and other such stuff.....
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blitzkrieg
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posted September 07, 2006 03:12 PM
I talked to Maynard this afternoon Navpreet.
He knew exactly what we are talking about here. He said he actually has a friend that would do this type of welding. He's going to get an estimate.
I'm actually hesitant to do this here because if it gets put in the wrong place you have junk on your hands. Do you have anybody in India that can handle this type of welding?
The best thing would be for you to put the pipe on the bike and figure out exactly where you want the bung.
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navpreet318
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posted September 07, 2006 07:50 PM
check out the pic of y2kzx12r......thats exactly where you can put it.....the thing is that here in india the place where it'll get done is about 1500 miles from my place...a place called bangalore.....it's possible there but i doubt they would have so much knowledge.....
i think the point where the pipe starts to turn upwards towards the endcan would be the place to put the bung......
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Y2KZX12R
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posted September 08, 2006 03:50 AM
quote:
i think the point where the pipe starts to turn upwards towards the endcan would be the place to put the bung......
Just watch the swing of the swing-arm for clearance.
You'll need to log TPS as well as rpm and o2 voltage to make adjustments.
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Y2KZX12R
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Texas12R
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posted September 08, 2006 06:06 AM
I think that I would use the tennis ball on one end and steel wool on the end with the purge line, simply because the back purge can only be slightly positive in respect to pressure. the steel wool will allow the argon back purge to escape at the same rate it is entering while
remaining effective in preventing oxidation. I would also clean the inside very meticulously
by any means available. I have used a 1/4 round stock with a slit made in the end with a hacksaw inwhich to put a piece of journal cloth. I use an air drill to spin this "as long a you need it" flapper. The puddle , while welding rolls, which brings the backside to the top along with anything on the backside ie oxidation or impurites, hence the reason for the back purge. I assumed the pipe has been run so there would be some carbon deposited inside.
I have done Ti outside a chamber using the largest gas lense available with a homemade trailer ( this is a small box that also uses an argon flood) Filler would be CP Ti
I worked in aircraft for a few years. I would do the job....but my leads wont reach that far!
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navpreet318
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posted September 08, 2006 07:51 AM
well the pipe is brand new.....so no carbon...and probably blitz will get the thing done .....i hope he will or i'll have big trouble getting it done here....
well the damn thing is soo cool it logs everything...there are like connectors for atleast 7-8 morethings...haven't even tried them yet....also using the pocketlogger on my palm will be a dream....lets see how this thing works....its got good credentials and i saw the forums at homemadeturbo.com....and they say its damn good.....
btw how should i log the tps.....from the ecu connector right....coz i'll be tapping the rpm from there.....
____________
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blitzkrieg
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posted September 08, 2006 08:57 AM
The problem is the B model swingarm is not identical to the A model.
That's an awfully expensive pipe to be drilling into guesstimating where the bung hole needs to be. I don't feel comfortable with that.
I'm going to recommend I ship the pipe and bung to you, you put everything on the bike and carefully mark (with a Sharpie) exactly where you want the bung put.
The mid pipe weighs next to nothing so I bet we could ship it back and forth for around $20-$30 total. If you are going to ship that A1 double bubble back to me you could just put the mid-pipe and bung in with that shipment.
Of course that is assuming Maynards guy can/will do the job. My guess is he can, those guys are damn good at what they do.
Be forewarned, speciality welding of this type may not be cheap. I had an aluminum engine case from an ATV welded at Maynards shop and it cost $150. Quality doesn't come cheap.
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blitzkrieg
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posted September 08, 2006 09:19 AM
Does anybody know of another supplier for the titanium O2 bungs? This guy is out and doesn't know when more might be available....
http://www.mountainperformance.com/yamaha_specialty_tools.htm
ggt-2311 O2 Sensor Weld in Bung (Titanium)
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navpreet318
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posted September 08, 2006 09:23 AM
yup i know quality doesn't come cheap....
and btw i think all models A and B swing arms are the same....
yep seeing y2kzx12r's pic...its the same...just powdercoated black.....i don't think it'll be a problem bob...just put it horizontally where the pipe is turning upwards....
shouldn't be a problem....
____________
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navpreet318
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posted September 08, 2006 09:25 AM
oh shucks....now my problems start.....lolz.....
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blitzkrieg
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posted September 08, 2006 09:31 AM
Yep. He said they are trying to get the guy to cut 100 more, but he hasn't committed and there is no ETA...
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Texas12R
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posted September 08, 2006 09:31 AM
http://www.ticotitanium.com/bushings.php
Or are we looking for metric pipe threaded half coupling?
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navpreet318
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posted September 08, 2006 09:37 AM
you da man mate....but now only to find some one to give me the specs of the bung......
SOS Y2KZX12R.....
____________
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navpreet318
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posted September 08, 2006 09:45 AM
so people whats the size of the o2 sensor...i'm looking at the titanium nuts.....that'll be a better option........
____________
2005 ZX-12R,Arata Full Ti, PC3,Gillis
Rearsets,Muzzy Velocity Stacks,BMC
Race filters.One Crazy 12
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