RAC4IT
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted August 10, 2006 06:35 AM
Engine stumbles, stalls as if it's out of fuel
I've encountered a problem with my 2001 1290 bike. I was riding home from the Vortex on I-85 recently and the bike acted like it was out of gas, giving me only just enough time to get to the shoulder and up an off-ramp. Just as I got off the Interstate it stalled, but I was able to fire it back up. It idled fine but when I put it under load it stalled. So I thought it was either out of fuel (even tho the gauge showed 2 bars remaining) or the PC3 had failed.
I made it a gas station and topped it off, primed it a few times by cycling the key, and it fired up fine, got about 100 yards down the road, same problem, stalled out. Went back to the gas station parking lot, pulled the seat and reset the PC3 using the faceplate buttons.
This still didnt solve the problem but I was able to make it home with the bike stumbling out at certain rpms (various).
Last Sunday I tried to diagnose I used what I had available to try to figure it out.
---Checked the map in the PC3, everything seemed on, reloaded the map anyway. Test rode the bike, it's still screwed up.
---Removed the PC3 completely, bike ran great for about 1 mile, then the same thing, acts like it's out of gas, but only at certain RPMs it falls on its face then picks back up again.
---Swapped the entire FUEL TANK with my spare 2000 tank, thinking this would eliminate any possible fuel pump, pickup filter, or fuel pressure regulator issues. Again, test rode the bike, seemed fine at first, but within a mile or so it's still screwed up. By the time I got back to my house it was as bad as ever.
---Pulled the plugs (it had CR10Es that had some mileage and nitrous passes on them but they looked great for having sprayed nearly 100 shot on them). Anyway, removed those and installed brand new OEM CR9EK platinums, the factory shizzles. Again, test rode the bike, seemed fine at first, but within a mile or so it's still screwed up.
I haven't swapped the coil sticks yet, but I do have a spare set from my other ZX12 available and plan to swap those out next.
If that doesn't solve it then I'm at a complete loss as to what is causing this problem.
Anyone have suggestions?
I can't swap the ECU between the two bikes because they are different model years (2001 and 2000 is my other bike). I hope it's not the ECU but I don't have a spare to swap out and test with.
I'm trying to avoid having to take it in to Lee's if possible, undoubtedly it will cost $$$ to get this diagnosed and resolved in the shop.
Thanks for your help.
  
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RAC4IT
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted August 10, 2006 06:36 AM
I forgot to mention that if you just fire it up, and rev it, everything seems and sounds normal. It's not until your actually start riding it that the trouble appears, and it's seems to vary at which RPMS the stumbles occur, ususally 4000 or so, but sometimes elsewhere.
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aliveagain
Needs a life
Posts: 5033
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posted August 10, 2006 07:59 AM
I've heard of the coils going by doing that.As the insulation heats up it shortsbut the book states that the ecu would shut only that stick down and should still run.How old is the battery?
____________
I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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aliveagain
Needs a life
Posts: 5033
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posted August 10, 2006 08:49 AM
I started thinking maybe tank vent,when you changed tanks,did you use the same cap?
____________
I wondered why the baseball kept getting bigger. Then it hit me.
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RAC4IT
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted August 10, 2006 09:44 AM
No I swapped the entire tank assembly, therefore it had a different cap and lock. I'll swap the coils and pray for resolution, thanks for your input.
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osti33
Needs a job
Posts: 2973
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posted August 10, 2006 10:00 AM
I have also heard of crank triggers going bad and causing that type of problem.
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five 0
Expert Class
Posts: 215
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posted August 10, 2006 12:12 PM
Trash in the fuel rail or injectors??? Or maybe the regulator is bad or not holding??
5-0
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01zx12r
Expert Class
Posts: 338
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posted August 10, 2006 12:16 PM
I would replace the crankshaft sensor.
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Lovett Racing/Pedigo Performance
8.40 @170
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wannabe
Pro
Posts: 1931
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posted August 10, 2006 04:16 PM
I know that it's already been said, but it totally sounds like a fuel tank venting problem to me. The next time you go out to try to diagnose it, go for a ride. When the motor dies again, pull over and open up the fuel cap. If it is a venting problem, the bike should start up again and be fine for another mile or so before the problem comes back.
Maybe you either pinches off or accidentally plugged a vent hose or something.
Before this problem popped up, did you do any work to your bike that required that you pull the tank up or off?
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rac4it
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted August 11, 2006 08:06 AM
No, nothing changed on the bike- the problem just "appeared". I completely swapped the fual tank with another tank from my other ZX12R, thinking that SHOULD eliminate a venting or regulator issue because the problem still exists.
Is the crank trigger the same on the 2000 and 2001? I'll swap that out as well if they are, and also visually inspect the wiring leads, when I swap the coils this weekend.
Thanks.
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zrexpilot
Expert Class
Posts: 470
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posted August 11, 2006 10:00 AM
Water in your gas ?
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droid
Expert Class
Posts: 133
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posted August 11, 2006 10:42 AM
Do you have an alarm installed/ immobiliser??
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rac4it
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted August 11, 2006 10:44 AM
Again I swapped the fuel tank, that should rule out any fuel related problem.
No alarm.
I wish I knew someone nearby with a 2001 ECU I could swap to test.
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted August 11, 2006 10:48 AM
 Edited By: CrotchRocket on 11 Aug 2006 11:49
Sorry Berg, you have done everything I can think of...I'm no help 
Did you give Lee a call, maybe he can shed some light???
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
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posted August 11, 2006 11:16 AM
Try checking the wires coming out of the crank sensor. Wiggle the wires with an ohm meter on them.
Also check the 2 large connectors where the pc-III plugs into. Make sure all the female terminals arnt opened up.
I'd also pull out the battery tray and check that everything in there is tight.
It sounds like an electrical problem.
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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rac4it
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted August 11, 2006 01:35 PM
If I can't work it out this weekend, I'll call Lee 
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blitzkrieg
Needs a job
Road kill = Free lunch.
Posts: 2044
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posted August 11, 2006 07:28 PM
Bergie, make sure that battery is good, fully charged and not plate shorting or worn out.
It sounds weird, but I've seen pretty much the exact symptoms you are describing before and it was a battery that had enough charge to start the bike but not enough reserve when the ignition started to draw harder in the 3k-6k range.
____________
"BTW....You need to get a girlfriend who's last name isn't .jpg"
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted August 12, 2006 04:37 AM
This is simple but did you disconnect the PC3 and go for a ride to see if it still cuts off ???
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted August 13, 2006 05:50 AM
Edited By: dougmeyer on 13 Aug 2006 06:51
More things to check:
1. Fuel pump relay and associated wiring (to troubleshoot, try jumping the relay like you do when draining the tank )
2. Check all grounds
3. Fall down switch
4. Ignition key switch and handle bar stop switch (they can corrode)
Something very similar to this drove me nuts at Bonneville in 2000, but I think it was a fuel pump that would stick due to using some race gas with strange chemistry. Drove me nuts.
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wannabe
Pro
Posts: 1931
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posted September 12, 2006 03:30 PM
Did you ever solve this problem, Bergie?
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rac4it
Needs a job
Bergie
Posts: 3009
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posted September 17, 2006 06:11 AM
No, still working on it. I doubt I will make Maxton, again.
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thekaz
Needs a job
spell chequer is bustimicated
Posts: 2909
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posted September 17, 2006 08:32 AM
Check TPS switch or Crank Sensor or Cam Sensor ?????
And by the way DAM THESE ECU's THAT WON'T ANYONE PLUG IN FOR REAL TIME DATA !!!!
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speedgene
Zone Head
Posts: 996
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posted September 19, 2006 02:57 PM
Edited By: speedgene on 19 Sep 2006 15:59
Maxton, you say?...
1. Run without the muffler... See if she's got's clog-age at 4K?
2. Please follow sequence this way only. Make sure the battery reads a fully charged 12.7 volts for testing. Check voltage from positive lead off battery to any ground. What was the reading... 10v or 12 volts? Disconnect the neg. (-) battery cable from the frame. Read the voltage from the positive (+) battery cable or battery post (whichever is easier), then place the negative (-) lead from the meter to anywhere on the bike, but the not the ground strap or negative battery post. Are you reading 10V or above?
Keep the battery ground off the frame, and remember to use the meter's negative lead to anywhere on the bike but the battery or attached (-) cable. What voltage are you reading when you ground the volt meter to the bike when you pull the ECU out of the loop?
3. Run without the air cleaner? Dirty A/C?
4. Pull the fuel line on the throttle body side, find an empty water bottle. Hold the hose inside the bottle, turn the key on, then find any crap laying in the bottom? It might be starving for fuel on the throttle body side rather than the tank/f-pump/vent side?
5. Ask RR which is the hot (+) 12v wire into the ECU? Run "Total Loss" eliminating most of the (parasitic) wiring?
6. If a spark coil is bad, or there's a fuel problem, start with a cold engine. Start the bike up for literally 2 seconds; Even that is too long. Place a finger at the closed end of the pipe going into the head. Which primary stayed cold? There is your (possible) lagging fuel pressure, or faulty stick coil?
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E-tard
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