oldkawboy
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posted August 04, 2006 06:16 PM
Getting closer to headlight fix....but still not there!
I've learned a ton about the 12's electrical system, just not quite enough to solve my problem.
I took the junction box apart and applied 12 volts to trigger the output side of the headlight relay and it will pick up and turn my lights on, that's the good news. Bad news is I can't figure out what should trigger the relay. Does anyone know what kind of voltage, if any, the small white wire that taps off the alternator should have on it? I can't read anything at the yellow wire going in the j-box that originates from the white wire. I can read continuity form the yellow wire at the j-box to the white wire at the alternator connector.
Once again, all three white wires from the alternator read the same voltage with the engine running from a to b phase, b to c and c to a phase.
Any help would be much appreciated............Really, really appreciated.
Dan
  
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zxlnt
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posted August 04, 2006 06:25 PM
So you have a good circuit from the stator end of the white wire all the way to the junction box? Pull the stator and check the wire itself and make sure its not broken or something.
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
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posted August 04, 2006 08:12 PM
everything on the bike should be 12 volts to the best of my knowledge. the ECU _may_ use 5V inside, but it will make that conversion inside the sealed box if so.
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zxlnt
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posted August 04, 2006 10:44 PM
But the voltage from the Stator is AC voltage, for it to trip the relay and not buzz it has to be rectified into DC somplace I would think. Perhaps a diode inside the relay its self...
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droid
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posted August 05, 2006 04:21 AM
quote:
But the voltage from the Stator is AC voltage, for it to trip the relay and not buzz it has to be rectified into DC somplace I would think. Perhaps a diode inside the relay its self...
Thats why the wiring from the alternator goes to a regulator/rectifier!
Same as every automotive charging system, just on bikes the components are still separated
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droid
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posted August 05, 2006 04:35 AM
 Edited By: droid on 5 Aug 2006 05:38
Right i shot my mouth off before i read the diagram!!
There is a diode in the junction box on the yellow wire (white from alt changes to yellow at the connection) but according to my diagram a non malaysian/australian model does not utilise this function, i am assuming it is for always on lights when engine running?
Main feed into j box is brown and blue wire feeds the right hand handle bar switch and passing button
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zxlnt
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posted August 05, 2006 06:40 AM
Lol yeah I know what you mean, and as you know I was specifically talking about the small white wire that comes off the stator that trips the headlight relay..
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droid
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posted August 05, 2006 08:01 AM
Like i said though that only trips a relay in the j box on some variants as there are additional relays for main and dipped beam especially on my UK and would expect on US models as oldkawboy has said hes rung the wire out and it is ok, does it actually go to anything inside his j box?? Is he chasing a red herring?
OKB do you have power from ign brown, do you get power out on blue wire, have you good earth??
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zxlnt
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posted August 05, 2006 11:26 AM
But did he check it from the alternator connector to where it actually connectors to the stator windings? Not unless he pulled the stator off and physically looked at it or metered it to make sure its good..
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oldkawboy
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posted August 06, 2006 08:33 AM
Just rolled back in from Dads, been out of pocket since I made the post.
I believe the small white wire just taps off from one leg of the alternator (one of the 3 larger white wires from the alternator) at the connector before the rectifier. I don't think the small wire runs down to the alternator but I will check right now by pulling the cover and removing the stator.
Thanks again guys for the help, I'll let you know ASAP.
Dan
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droid
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posted August 06, 2006 08:34 AM
It doesnt run to the stator just taps onto one wire like u said
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droid
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posted August 06, 2006 08:36 AM
What model are u running US?
What wiring diagram are you using?
Like i said in previous post i think u might be chasing a red herring with the white wire thing it seems to only apply to malaysian and aussie models
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zxlnt
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posted August 06, 2006 08:55 AM
It most certainly does run to the stator, and comes off of one of the taps. That why the headlights dont kick on until the engine is running and the stator is producing voltage. I know it connect down there because I have had it apart and seen for myself... It comes off the stator, then goes to a small connector thats attached to the frame to rear of the battery box. I dont remember if it changes colors there or not though.. But the 00 American model damn sure has that wire and it comes off the stator...
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oldkawboy
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posted August 06, 2006 12:38 PM
Edited By: oldkawboy on 6 Aug 2006 13:38
Mines an US of A '00 model.
Here's how mine is wired. I have 3 white wires that originate in the stator, just had mine all apart. The 3 go through the grommet, up to the connector in the tailpiece. There is a smaller white wire that taps off one of the legs and goes to a connector behind the battery box under the fuel tank. It changes to a yellow wire and runs to the junction box.
Not disputing you ZXLNT 'cause you've been a big help over the years, but that is how mine is wired.
Droid,
I have 12 volts on the brown wire. The only way I can get 12 v on the blue/yellow wire at the j-box is to pick up the relay using a "borrowed" 12 volts.
I've got a gallon of gas and a match...........I'm not afraid to use them!
Dan
BTW: Thanks again guys for your time and trouble.
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zxlnt
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posted August 06, 2006 01:53 PM
You just confirmed what I have been saying all along, that wire comes off the stator. That is what gives the voltage to the headlight relay thru the junction box. I would make sure that wire isnt broken or damaged someplace between the white connector and the stator.
Put 12V on that yellow wire and see if it trips the headlights.. Meter from the connector to the other end at the stator and make sure its has continuity...
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droid
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posted August 07, 2006 09:15 AM
Why don't you just run a fuse between the brown and blue/yellow wire and leave it?
Who cares if you can put your lights on before the engine is running!
Most suzuki's now are wired to lights on the moment ignition is turned on!
zxlnt, never said wire don 't come off stator , just remarked it might not go all the way to the stator but taps onto a stator leg wire albeit a shorter statement.
UK model does away with that chicken shit relay in the j box anyway, and runs from the ignition feed/fuse/blue wire (blue/yellow in your case) to handlebar switch.
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oldkawboy
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posted August 07, 2006 12:57 PM
May end up doing the re-wire like you suggested droid, it's just that I'd like to figure this thing out 'cause I hate stuff like this to beat me.
Dan
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zxlnt
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posted August 07, 2006 03:55 PM
Droid yes you did. 6 posts up. Not trying to make a big deal, but it annoys me when I post something that I know is a fact and someone else tells me differently thats all....
OKB I've lost track on some of this. Did you actually test the stator output on all three legs. I think you did mention on another site, but I dont remember....
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BROOKLYNNYZX12
Zone Head
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posted August 07, 2006 05:10 PM
GM cars had a wire off the ignition switch that had a momentary surge of voltage that was used to excite the field in alternator,maybe the white wire for the headlight relay serves the same purpose.
____________
Orient Express Top Street Bike Winner 8-4-07
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oldkawboy
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posted August 07, 2006 06:28 PM
ZXLNT,
Yep, all three phase' output were the same voltage.
Brook,
You're right, the white wire does supply voltage to the headlight relay. I have voltage on that wire at the j-box but the relay does not pick up unless I supply 12 volts and trigger it.
The headlights on 12's are not suppose to come on until the starter button is released, the headlights are designed to go out if the starter button is pressed while the engine is running and then come back on when the button is released.
I'm checking into that circuit after while...........I'm 'bout over this thing!
Dan
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droid
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posted August 08, 2006 05:59 AM
quote:
Droid yes you did. 6 posts up. Not trying to make a big deal, but it annoys me when I post something that I know is a fact and someone else tells me differently thats all....
OKB I've lost track on some of this. Did you actually test the stator output on all three legs. I think you did mention on another site, but I dont remember....
I said it doesn't run TO the stator. I'm referring to wiring diagrams that show wire tapping off not at the stator but further up the wire, why run 4 wires to the stator? OK i assumed that it was spliced into one of the phases part way up the wire but i guess u know that it goes directly back to the stator- i take it that is what u are saying!
Sorry to annoy you but i do get the same feelings sometimes, i'm time served and 15 years in electro mechanical working for a Caterpillar dealer and our wiring/mechanical systems are way more complex than anything Kawasaki has ever put on a motorcycle, i'm just trying to help.....if i could get my hands on your bike Dan i'd fix it for you FOC but there is a big stretch of water between us so I can only post words that can get misinterpreted.
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oldkawboy
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posted August 08, 2006 06:31 AM
Droid,
No misinterpretations on my end, I appreciate yours and everone elses input.
If you were closer I'd sure let you fix it............I'm not too proud to ask for help. I've got a buddy who is an auto accessories guru, he install alarms, remote starters, stereos, etc. and he's looking into it now with me.
If that doesn't work, look for a plane ticket in the mail. :-)
Dan
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Gunner
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posted August 08, 2006 07:05 AM
Dan, I've noticed that tapped off wire before when I was studying the wiring on the 12. My question is If it never passes thru the voltage reg isn't it still AC voltage? And how would AC voltage be used up there? I'm probably missing something here, but that's my hanging point at this time
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oldkawboy
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posted August 08, 2006 08:24 AM
Mike,
There's a diode in the j-box at the relay that I'd guess converts the ac to dc.
If I can't get something figured out soon, I may holler at you for some comparison readings between the two bikes.
Dan
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Gunner
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posted August 08, 2006 09:04 AM
Dan I'm caught up at work for awhile so I'm free everyday right now. ANYTIME Sir!
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