navpreet318
Expert Class
one crazy 12
Posts: 192
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posted July 14, 2006 09:02 AM
length of the long velocity stacks
my friend here has a big machine shop....here in india...he manufactures CNC machines....and has a degree in tool design...so you can understand what he can get upto....
we're building a set of velocity stacks...we have an after market unit in our hands for the base design....
now can someone tell me the length of the long bear stacks...
we don't have them available here....and then we have to pay like 100% customs duty on them....so we're making 2 sets for our own use....
waiting for your replies....
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2005 ZX-12R,Arata Full Ti, PC3,Gillis
Rearsets,Muzzy Velocity Stacks,BMC
Race filters.One Crazy 12
  
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted July 14, 2006 03:34 PM
I personally know how much Dyno Time and effort Bear put into finding the length that worked best for midrange. You can copy what you have but I will not help you with anything else. People have copied what he has done and some people in South Florida have stated that they are going to put him out of business with better stacks at 1/2 the Price! That was almost a year ago and no one has yet to see anything!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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navpreet318
Expert Class
one crazy 12
Posts: 192
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posted July 14, 2006 07:09 PM
i'm not into business or anything....like if i order a set of bear stacks....it'll cost me close to 500$....is that fair.....only me and my friend are the ones who know what the effect of a good stack is mr.hill.....
i know what amount of work peirre of bears engg. would have done into every part that he designs....i respect him for that.....thats the reason i'm asking for help....
heck we here are making most of the stuff for our bikes...just our bikes....like stands spools,even air filters,oil filters etc....but its not a business....that friend of mine makes CNC machines....he's very very well off....we don't need to get into bike parts business....its just that we're trying to better the performance of our bikes with out doling out money to our government....
i hope its not bad to make yourself a set if you can't afford one....
we're saving the money for other things that'll cost a fortune here...like a full exhaust and pc3....if you plan not to help us....its up to you.....i thought you used to help people to DIY....
i'm just making myself clear here....i'm not into business....and i'm not killing pierre's business by making one set....
and i'll make long stacks no matter what....
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2005 ZX-12R,Arata Full Ti, PC3,Gillis
Rearsets,Muzzy Velocity Stacks,BMC
Race filters.One Crazy 12
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navpreet318
Expert Class
one crazy 12
Posts: 192
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posted July 14, 2006 07:27 PM
and before anybody says that we'll be makin crap let me tell you that we're using billet aluminium LM7....thats aircraft quality grade....well you guys might have better but this is the best we can get in india....and we're making one a set for us....no one else...not even any one in india....because making parts for these expensive bikes attracts the government agencies hell bent on confiscating our bikes.....
i hope this makes me clear.....
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2005 ZX-12R,Arata Full Ti, PC3,Gillis
Rearsets,Muzzy Velocity Stacks,BMC
Race filters.One Crazy 12
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted July 14, 2006 08:09 PM
..i thought you used to help people to DIY..
Yes with My Knowledge not from anyone else. Why not ask Pierre. He had posted here and other places
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted July 14, 2006 08:20 PM
Navpreet...The cost of making those stacks are not worth the performance your not going to get !!!
You can buy the stacks already made and it will still not be worth the $$$ paid for HorsePower gained...
In other words dont bother getting or making them!!!...If you want more power change the gearing and or put VP race gas MR9 in your 12...
Thats not my  Just telling it like it is!!!
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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navpreet318
Expert Class
one crazy 12
Posts: 192
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posted July 14, 2006 09:41 PM
well CR the thing here is that we don't get MR9 here...though we use toluene to boost the octane number.....
we've already changed the gearing....17t....
i know its not worth the money invested....but the thing is that when we can make it for real cheap for ourselves why not do it....my friend has a decent amount of LM7 grade aluminium left from a machine he designed....so thats why we're going into it just for the heck of it....it won't cost us anything....so maybe i'll make a set of these short ones....we're like students...we're both into tool design....designing things gives us a perticular awesome feeling....thats why we're doing it....
i just wanted some help from the members to do something for my own bike.....i never thought that mr. hill would get so enraged about a small thing....
i have nothing but respect for you mr. hill....i've followed your work like a student....
well i'd like peirre to see this thread....lets hope he doesn't react in the wrong way....
people find copying the highest level of respect...also when i'm naming his design in perticular....yes i'm copying pierre's design....its the best out there......
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2005 ZX-12R,Arata Full Ti, PC3,Gillis
Rearsets,Muzzy Velocity Stacks,BMC
Race filters.One Crazy 12
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted July 15, 2006 05:02 AM
OK, then have fun in your fabricating, it will be nice to say you made certain pieces 
Use 87 octane gas...It burns faster, the higher the octane the slower you go!!!
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted July 15, 2006 07:51 AM
I made my own Stock Stack adaptors. I raised the middle stacks 10mm with a basic design made from 6061 aluminum.
I had them hydro machined here in Chandler, AZ at WC Machine. $60.00....DONE!
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You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted July 15, 2006 02:34 PM
CR is correct! The Longer only help to fill the torque hole between 5 to 7000.and make a "Little" more (Static as on the Dyno) power )Like 1 or 2 where the Mixed make 2 or 3 static HP. Take my advice and make them "Shorter" and gain real peak power. Look at the Muzzy and Bear Short and you will see that they are as Short as you can make them and still bolt them into the airbox
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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navpreet318
Expert Class
one crazy 12
Posts: 192
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posted July 15, 2006 02:47 PM
well yes it will be good to fel that i made some parts myself....
tell me one thing CR doesn't lower octane causes knocking...and its really bad when i use it here....you can actually hear it knocking....so just to safegaurd the engine i'm using higher octane....
ok then mr. hill i'll make a set of short stacks....i'll also make 2 long ones just for the heck of it and see what kind of difference it makes....
i'm also making a set of block off plates for myself...will take the stock out so that i can make a program with the specs of the curent plate....
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2005 ZX-12R,Arata Full Ti, PC3,Gillis
Rearsets,Muzzy Velocity Stacks,BMC
Race filters.One Crazy 12
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted July 15, 2006 02:56 PM
You want to use the lowest possible Octane "THAT WILL NOT KNOCK" The higher the octane the "MORE" Resistant to ignition the fuel is. The higher the compression the more heat the fuel air charge becomes (Remember, a Diesel at 18 to 20 to 1 compresses the air until they can use the "Fuel" to ignite the Air). It is only because the the excellent combustion chamber design that we can use lower octane fuel in engines that have 12 to 13 to 1 Compression Ratio's
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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navpreet318
Expert Class
one crazy 12
Posts: 192
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posted July 15, 2006 03:11 PM
ok then i'll use various combinations of the petrol toluene mix....what i thing is that true 91 octane should do it...also the fuel quality here is very bad...mixed with varous agents to make more volume to make more money....
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2005 ZX-12R,Arata Full Ti, PC3,Gillis
Rearsets,Muzzy Velocity Stacks,BMC
Race filters.One Crazy 12
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted July 15, 2006 06:43 PM
Nav, sorry to hear about the quality of fuel available to you 
Then use the 91 and have fun on the highways Blasting around...Do you have Police on the Highway to prevent you from speeding???...What are the speed limits if any???
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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navpreet318
Expert Class
one crazy 12
Posts: 192
|
posted July 16, 2006 05:40 PM
well it depends....generally there's no police on the highways....so one can speed as much as one can....but regarding the traffic sense that prevails in india....we have to be care full...like i haven't crassed 250 till now....and that too was a momentary blast....
regarding the police....if they're there they're bound to stop me....coz of curiosity that which bike is this and what is its mileage....lolz....
there are people around here in india which ride these bikes without registration papers.....so the police get a hefty bribe....hence they're on a lookout for these bikes....so that they can get a nice bribe.....
well thats india for you....but it has its good sides as well....no rules...and even if they are....they can be flouted.....so even if i ever get caught speeding.....i can get away with it by giving a bribe....
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2005 ZX-12R,Arata Full Ti, PC3,Gillis
Rearsets,Muzzy Velocity Stacks,BMC
Race filters.One Crazy 12
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted July 17, 2006 04:32 PM
I think I'm going to India to become a Hiway Cop... 
Go to work with no $$$ and come home with a Pocket Full of $$$
I'm sure you have connections to get you off without giving $$$...I hear you about the people that dont know how to drive 
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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navpreet318
Expert Class
one crazy 12
Posts: 192
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posted July 17, 2006 10:36 PM
lolz....you know you'll actually find the cops to get more money than pvt workers....
like the other day i saw a constable....thats the lowest rank of an police officer....talking on a nokia 8800....now thats a 800$ cell phone here.....and the official pay of a constable is like 100$....lolz....you figure out how he got that....
so when're you comin....coz i'll start tellin the local motorists to start keeping dallars instead of our local currency....
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2005 ZX-12R,Arata Full Ti, PC3,Gillis
Rearsets,Muzzy Velocity Stacks,BMC
Race filters.One Crazy 12
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12r1
Expert Class
Posts: 390
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posted July 18, 2006 12:29 PM
Psycho, how's yours running with the adapters?
jeff
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted July 19, 2006 06:58 AM
12r1;
I currently run a Ti Force Full Ti. Anyone who has one knows that it "takes a break" in power production at @6,800 rpm for 500 rpm. This was not too big of a deal untill my buddy picked up a 05' G1K. His 05' has a slip-on with a custom map, 1 tooth down in front, speedo healer and the bike and him are about 140 lbs. less than me.
THIS IS NOT A SLOW BIKE! When I first did a roll on with him (6th gear), I was left in the dust! (over 8+ bike length's). Keep in mind that I have a Muzzy 1270 kit also!
Needless to say, I started to scratch my head and wonder what's up with my 12??!!
I started with a Full Tune up which involved new plugs, BMC Race filters, injector clean and service and a valve clearance check. One more thing to help even the score was a 17 t up front. It still gives me over 190 mph top end 
The next roll on was much different....side by side untill I would hit my pipe dip or "flat" spot. He would get 2 bike length's and then I would slowly get them back and pass around 180 or so. Keep in mind that this process is a good real world on road dyno.
Short of getting a different pipe, I decided to explore the staggered stacks option w/o spending the cubic dollars for something pretty that you cannot see.
After installing the the adaptors..(think of a 10mm thick, aluminum, mopar 318, thermostat gasket under the two inside stacks) and adjusting the map to match them, the 2 bike length deficit is now down to a 1/2 bike length. Go from 2nd or 3rd gear from a roll and I just go away.....Gradually, gear by gear.
BTW, there are also adaptors down inside the Throttle bodies to seal the 10mm gap between the stock stacks. I also used oil resistant black RTV to seal the adaptors underside to the airbox/frame.
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You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
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12r1
Expert Class
Posts: 390
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posted July 22, 2006 12:48 PM
Very interesting.
I have a set of Muzzy blue stacks that aren't worth anything to resell.....I may try lengthening two of em. A friend of mine does amazing welding work, so it should work out really well.
Thanks for the detailed reply, very cool.
jeff
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