quote:I absolutely don't get this. The 14 with a pipe will smoke all but the best built 13- whatever 12. I predict a 210mph NA ZX-14. Look at the damn 1/4 times and the weight is virtually the SAME. It is far superior in all areas.
D.
What you are saying is 100% correct based on Theory backed up by what everyone saw at Las Vegas and a few other places. However, it is "NOT" what is happening on the streets around here in DC, Maryland and Virginia! The few I have seen are getting their Rears handed to them by the Busas and 12 that are tuned.
Saying that, all they had were Pipes! None had Power commanders and none were that fast really!. This sort of reminds me of the HP Figures the Magazines were gettin on the ZX11 they were all getting about 127 to 128 HP and the "D" was over 130 HP. I never saw any bike get much more than 120 and most were between 110 to 118 HP on the ZX11C's
I think what you guys have (Muzzy) and Kawasaki at Las Vegas were Pre-Production Units and that what people are getting on the streets are not the same period. The Bikes all have more torque than the 12 but not the HP and right now, they are not going as fast or as quick either "On the streets of Maryland and DC. When I see one beat somebody around here then I will let you know. (Or are you saying that I should not trust my Lying eyes and just believe what I read on the Net?)
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
posted July 10, 2006 12:43 PM
Vincent I am pretty sure Kaw didn't make the ZX14 to impress you. What I dont get is, if you dont like thats fine. Remember the saying "If you dont have anything nice to say, then dont say anything at all" You sure your not a closet Hayabusa guy? Your rhetoric sounds somewhat familiar...
quote:Vincent I am pretty sure Kaw didn't make the ZX14 to impress you. What I dont get is, if you dont like thats fine. Remember the saying "If you dont have anything nice to say, then dont say anything at all" You sure your not a closet Hayabusa guy? Your rhetoric sounds somewhat familiar...
Tony, you of all people know better and that is for starters. If I did like the Busa, I would like the 14 a whole lot better. Last, the Busa guys were all over the ZX12 sites talking their trash. I am on the (LOOK CAREFULLY) ZX12R forum. I did not come over to the 14 site to talk trash, I am on the ZX12R Site talking to fellow ZX12R rider about another bike I and some others like less and some a lot less than the ZX12R.
Now go back to the 14 side where you all can enjoy you 14's in Peace!
200 Crank shaft HP and about 15% losses would equal 170 at the rear wheel which is about what we are seeing and less. Now if that is 200 STD HP At the crank, then we can understand why the mid 160 Figures in SAE! My 12 made over 183 SAE and over 190 STD HP and 200 un corrected on a 50 some degree day at the rear wheel so what?
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
posted July 10, 2006 01:59 PM
Except looks Doug.
I just couldnt justify my 12r plus $6000-$7000 bucks for 10 more hp when Muzzys 1375 kits last fall were $1,695. for far more than 10 additional hp. I dont drag race or use the clutch very much. I'm only on my 2nd set of frictions in 18,000 miles.
And with HH pads and stainless lines the brakes are excelent.
And as for handling? Well the 14 aint no 10r.
I guess I'll have to wait and see a 14 on the road and see how badly it blows me away.
I'll take my chances.
Needs a job
PMRA / TMRC Super Street 4022
Posts: 3745
posted July 10, 2006 02:45 PM
The only 12s I have heard of really running hard, are the ones that brock has, and rickey and ryan rode......
There are a few running here, and they are way slower than my stock motored 12, at every interval down the track, with similar short times............
I do run mine as hard as it will go after a soft 60 foot with the lock up, but I really thought they would back half harder...........
I know I am going to catch shit for saying this, but I really expected more out of them, like VH is saying............
I am sure if I got a hold of one, I would change my mind, but I still think they are so ugly compared to the 12. They seem so heavy, and those I have seen on the scales are proving it..............
I weighed 680 on mine, and my buddy weighed 785 on his, he is 50 more than me suited, but that 14 was 50 more than my 12, both at 68 inches............WTF? It already had a muzzy on it......, so it had dropped weight..........., but that thing was weighing 550 wet, to mine at 495 or 500 wet, both at the end of a race pass..................
Oh, and I am still on full stock fibers and steels from 2002. two years in pro et and half of them livving in mid 1.30s short time............
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posted July 10, 2006 03:53 PM
Y2K I cannot wait either for some 14 that has it all over you on paper find out you have it all over him (when you slow down and wait for him to catch up)
All of this sort of reminds me of how the Busas wer going to Tear all of the 12's a new one untl the Tape came out from the UK where the 12 just walked away from the busa every time they raced! You could not see the 12 one time it had soo much on the Busa.
With all of my Land Speed racing and clutch take offs I have really been through a lot of clutch plates. 1 set of Stock steels and about 2 of the 2 mm steels for about 10 race events (That is 10 2 day events with both me and Randall riding the bike! Of course I did a few things to make it last but it was not expensive. So far I have spent about $6,500 from the day I owned the bike new. that is
3 exhaust systems an Akra, Step Hindle and 4-2-1 Sidewinder Brock Hindle. $1,000
Swingarm modification and lock up clutch and Muzzy clutch $1,000
All new Body work rear and front $1,000
PC3 and PC3r, Bear Stacks, Bear Advancer and Bear manual adjustor, Cam sprockets & Coby Oil pan $1,000
CP Pistons, (Please do not mention the JE Pistons) $1,000 (FOr both sets)
NOS Set up, NX Kit, Schnitz Controller, Retard, Wilburn Nos COntroller, Bottles (2 10lb, 2 5 lb & 4 2.5lb($2,000
Paint and tires $500.00
SO there you have $6,500 of which $4,000 would not be spent if not racing (All of the NOS, Body work and the lock up and Muzzy because I drilled out everything myself . SO about $2,500 still on the street and making 183 SAE HP (190 STD HP) And a real Busa and 14 killer! it ran 190 to 192 at Maxton NA Just like this and just under 200 with a 60 shot (That had no BUTTON to activate)
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
quote:I absolutely don't get this. The 14 with a pipe will smoke all but the best built 13- whatever 12. I predict a 210mph NA ZX-14. Look at the damn 1/4 times and the weight is virtually the SAME. It is far superior in all areas.
D.
Oh, so you'll be selling your crappy old outdated A1 then...
I have yet to see a stock motored busa with pipe hand the 14 it's ass. I live in the DC, VA area and I have a buddy who rides a 14's. My bike has a full Akr, 16-44 gearing, busa had the airbox mod with full pipe and PC. High speed roll ons, we hit, everyone is within a bike of each other, 14 starts to pull away with me in tow....followed by the busa. I love my 12 but I have to give the 14 it's props.
I'm trying to figure why everyone is comparing the 14 to the 1361....Yes the stroker may carry a few more ponies, but are they reliable? To me the stroker is basically a track bike, I wouldn't trust it on a 400 mile per day weekend ride.
posted July 10, 2006 09:51 PM
Vincent,
You are correct the 14 I rode was a pre-pro, but as I and others who have had access to them have said, the production bikes are always better, not worse. I have enough faith in that to, at some point, get one out of a random crate just like enybody else.
This KILLS ME. Listen to you guys- "My 12 with a this and that and xx pipe and only $2000 worth of engine work is JUST AS FAST as a 14..... Blah blah....
Eeverybody is JUST GETTING STARTED with the 14. A little more compression, a little tweaking of the cams, a nice valve job, some proper mapping and you will see a 200 hp N/A street bike.
Remember, I rode a stock 12 with a pipe to 199 mph on a stinking hot day on that bumpy concrete at Maxton. After riding that 14 I'm sure you'll see 205 from a 14 without ever pulling the head.
Supra,
Of course that's what I'm saying, only not quite. I'm saying that the 14 is better. Better because - as it is - it's already faster, smoother, comes with an extendable warranty, and if you don't want to, you don't have to get your hands dirty.
blu,
1361's are absolutely reliable if built properly. I'd ride one off on a 1000 mile street ride without a second thought.
Y2,
Your reason is the only valid one because it's subjective and not quantitative. If you don't like the looks of a motorcycle, ain't nuthin going to change THAT. Well, maybe for one ride or two, but for a committed relationship.......
I feel strongly that the 12 was the best big bore sportbike in history, but its time has passed.
There is a new best....
Come on Y2, you KNOW your want to get your hands in there!
Doug
Needs a life
Full throttle!
Posts: One MEEEEEELLION
posted July 11, 2006 02:11 AM
Wow! Pretty strong endorsement! I honestly didn't think I was going to own another big bore sportbike. Had kinda settled on the Triumph Sport-Tourer. Good bike. Great bike in a lot of ways. But not really exciting, ya know? Kinda like sitting at the bar with a virgin bloody mary, when you could be tossing back shots of jack...
So I'm keeping the Triumph for now. I'm still going the sport-tour route with the 14, but taking my time and I want a bike with hard luggage until I have gotten the 14 where I want it.
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82 Gpz750, 84 Ninja 900, 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy Big Bore Kit), *another* 2000 ZX12R (Muzzy custom stroke crank 1341cc motor), 2004 ZZR1200, 2005 ZX10R, 2007 ZX14, 2008 Concours 14, 2014 Versys 650, 2014 Yamaha WR450F, 2015 Ninja H2
posted July 11, 2006 02:13 AM
Yea, Doug i'd love to dig into one. But I think the zx14s life span at the top of the production food chain will be short.
Suzuki has been setting the standard of performance sence 1999. the busa was a huge jump over the CBRxx. the 12r not much over the busa. The gsxr1000 was huge over all the other 1000's in 01.
I'll go out on a limb here and say that the new top Suzuki will be a much bigger jump in performance over the zx14 than the zx14 is over the 12r. Suzuki will move the bar not just bump it.
I'll wait and see what they bring out now that honda had chickened out and gone home.
posted July 11, 2006 04:22 AM
Dr. Doug, I am not saying that "EVENTUALLY" (When the Dynojet produces a proper Power Commander "If they can do such a thing", 2nd and 3rd Generation full exhaust systems, Midifications to the FI, tricks to the engine like pulling the base gasket or special Pistons) the 14 will out distance the 12! I am talking about the Here and Now what I am seeing. Stock for Stock, the 14 is "Behind" where the 12 was at this time in the life cycle. Maybe I should change the title of the thread to Right now, I am even less impressed with the 14!
Blu, I know that you live in Laurel MD which to us is the DC Metro Area. I do not know about you, But I have only see a few 14's and the ones I have seen were not "Impressive" to anyone (Including the owners) Of course they are in "Process" of working on the bikes and maybe in time they will get them worked out, but as of right now, "Da Bitch B Fat and Fugly" ____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
posted July 11, 2006 06:39 AM
Edited By: VincentHill on 11 Jul 2006 07:41
Thinking about the what is different about the 14 I finally realized something else that is fundamentally not like Kawasaki. In the late 60's Kawasaki had a 350 twin 2 stroke the A-7 Avenger that made the same HP as the 650 BSA and Triumph and the 250 A-1 Sammuri made the same power as the 500 Triumph & BSA twins and could run off from the Gold Star and other thumpers. The they came out with the H-1 500 Mach 3 than was faster and quicker then the Honda 750 4 cylinder and the BSA & Triumph 750 - 3 cylinder Bikes. Later they came out with the 750 H-2 that was faster than anything from 750 on up. In 1984, when they came out with the 900 Ninja, it could whip the 1100 Yamaha and 1000 Suzuki's and FInally when they came out with the ZX12R a 1200 cc bike it was as quick and sometimes faster than the 1300 CC Suzuki!
The ZX14 is the FIrst performance Bike that Kawasaki has ever come out with that had to be "Bigger" to beat the competition! Kawasaki has always done more with less but this time they are doing less with more and I really think that is a statement of throwing in the Towel on High performance efficiency and getting more out of smaller engines and smaller over all motorcycles
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
posted July 11, 2006 09:36 AM
Less Impressed Vince,
I won't argue with you on the looks...for that reason alone, I'm keeping the 12! Besides, unless 75% of the people I run into can't ride what they got!!
By the way, I no longer live in Laurel, I moved to Grasonville, just across the bay bridge. I can officially say that I live on the Eastern Shore...You Damn ChickenNeckers!!!!
it doesn't matter if it's a zx12 or a zx14 or any combination in between
blah blah blah
just buy it
build it
or just plain BRING IT
I'm so tired of reading what could be or should be, the zx12 vs. zx14 debate is old and most of it is done by keyboard racers. Just show me what you can do on your bike when I'm next to you and earn the respect. Thats right I'm standing up on the fence and shouting, calling everyone out!
See you at Maxton or the BikeLand.org shootout in October at MIR.
posted July 11, 2006 10:25 AM
Edited By: VincentHill on 11 Jul 2006 11:34
Bergie, You saw this? 240 ZX12R at Elvington? (Turbo)
http://www.suzukihayabusa.org/forum/index.php?topic=76798.0
Blu, you no longer live in the Washington Metro Area! Where you live, you can still see the outline on the Toilets where they removed the signs saying "Colored" and the sheets on the cloths lines have Holes in them ! ____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
posted July 11, 2006 06:19 PM
The 12r can be revved higher because of its extra short stroke.. A 1287 kit and better intake cam, and rpm would yield 205 to 215 horsepower.. You can't get a 1352cc motor to get that with a pipe.. As far as rpm capability the 12r is a better platform.. For drag racing probably the 14..
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posted July 10, 2006 12:23 PM
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