jhinderliter
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Hacksaw
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posted April 01, 2006 01:46 PM
3 mph lowside
just like it says...3mph low side on my '01 12...new cold tires on glazed concrete..you know the story..anyway... the cam chain jumped and im pretty sure it took out the valves with it...out looking for solutions on a top end kit...might do a crate motor as well....posted this on easy's site as well...anyone know if thats a zero clearance valvetrain?
thanks
  
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blitzkrieg
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posted April 01, 2006 04:33 PM
I'm confused.
How did a high-side cause the cam chain to jump?
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swft
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posted April 01, 2006 04:39 PM
he said 'low side'...
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Marcos Peguero
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posted April 01, 2006 05:38 PM
Interesting, a low side made a cam chain jump!!!!!!!
man these kawas you have to split the chain or the cases to take them out from the bottom and take out the bridge to take the top out!!!!!!!
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blitzkrieg
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posted April 01, 2006 08:44 PM
Lowside, highside, outside, inside... whatever.
I've never heard of a bike going down causing a cam chain to jump.
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swft
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posted April 02, 2006 04:52 AM
Neither have I...I was just being accurate. 
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CrotchRocket
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posted April 02, 2006 09:45 AM
We need more details as to what the engine did before you lost power???
Maybe you let the clutch out too fast causing the bike to stall???
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MadMike
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posted April 02, 2006 10:52 AM
yea, I dont think a simple lowside would cause the timing to jump and take valves out...
what is going on with the motor? will it just not run? or is it ticking really bad? etc....
what makes you think you took valves out...
MM
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jhinderliter
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Hacksaw
Posts: 541
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posted April 02, 2006 11:58 AM
hey thanks for the comments everybody...i guess i shouldve been clearer in my originial post... i was turning left after stopping for a red light..the bike did run for a bit on its side but not long ...the bike turned over but wouldnt start when we picked it up which seemed odd to me...the owner of the bike shop is a very good friend of mine (id only made it about 6 blocks from his shop  ) came with a trailer and we loaded it up and took it back to his shop...we could tell it wasnt getting any compression by the way it was turning over but i just couldnt believe it...we put the bike on the lift...when we took the lower timing chain cover off the chain fell out in about 3 pieces...the channel casting in the crankcase for the timing chain was broken as well... it got a pic of the cam chain and the crank case...if anyone would like me to email it to them so they can post it let me know.. i left it with my friend becuase i could see a little gleam in his eye at the prospect of building me a motor...sorry i didnt post up more info last night...i was out drowning my sorrows 
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gunner
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posted April 02, 2006 06:24 PM
 Edited By: gunner on 4 Apr 2006 07:02
Dude you are full of shit!!!!!!! If in fact the chain was in 3 pieces it would be wrapped so tight around the crank that the motor wouldn't turn over at all. Take this BS story and sell it to so real morons over at the Busa forums. Have you ever seen how that stuff fits in there. Most all of us here have and I'm calling the BULL SHIT on your story. Politically Correct I'm NOT! Full of SHIT you are! These comments were made at a time when I thought this guy was trollin and making up some BS story about the 12. It appears his motor really did fuck up and with that in mind I was tooo hard on this guy. MY BAD
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jhinderliter
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posted April 02, 2006 06:44 PM
???? think im makin this shit up?!? i have seen how 'that stuff' fits in there...the motor does turn over...as i said before the 'channel' or 'tab' that is cast into the lower half of the crank case and rides below the cam chain gear on the crank broke off clean... mad mike i havent been able to verify it yet but im sure this is a zero clearance valvetrain...and im gonna assume the valves hit the pistons...
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gunner
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posted April 02, 2006 06:56 PM
Again if in fact you had any back ground with a twin cam motor you would know without doubt that if the chain breaks and the cams stop turning there isn't any doubt that the pistons will knock the piss out of the valves that are left standing open. AND since you say that your cam chain fell out in three pieces (laughable at best) your motor wouldn't spin over very far. To have the kind of failure your talking about would require A LOT of RPM and something very bad going wrong. NO WAY a 3mph lowside totalled the top end of that motor. Take the picture of the Motor and the Bike and post them. This sounds like the kind of story some kid would make up to tell his dad. The average person can walk a brisk walk that's faster than 3MPH. There's more to be told here.
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jhinderliter
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posted April 02, 2006 07:13 PM
ive been a mech for over 15 years and ive worked on everything from GMs to turbines....ive been inside alot of engines and not all OHC valvetrains are zero clearance...but i stated before i was pretty sure this one was...the bottom end spins over fine off the starter...im just telling you guys what happened to me..here are a few things im am unsure of tho...
why would i make something like this up and post it here?
why are you jumping up and down and as much as calling me a liar?
you are entitled to your opinion like any other guy but im the guy out a motor here..
peace
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blitzkrieg
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posted April 03, 2006 02:31 PM
We're getting a little farther...
Not to discredit your "friend" but if if I'm reading between the linescorrectly you just picked it up from being worked on, yes?
If so what was worked on?
Seriously, I've seen dozens of these bikes go down (including my own) and something isn't adding up. Also, in all my experience with 12's I've never once seen one spit a cam chain (not saying it hasn't happened somewhere to somebody).
Now, if your friend happened to have been working on your motor and he fucked up the cam chain tensioner I could see the possibility for all kinds of bad shit to happen.
My guess from what you posted above is that is exactly what happened and the cam chain wrapped around the crank.
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jhinderliter
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posted April 03, 2006 02:38 PM
yea it was in for an oil change and tires...nothing more...i usually maintain my own shit but its tough owning a bike business in our area so i throw him as much work as i can...i can count out any theory of him taking it out and ragging on it becuase weve been pretty tight since grade school...i sent a pic to gunner (if its the same gunner from easys site) and we talked about it a little more via email...i dont know how else to explain it...
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gunner
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posted April 03, 2006 03:30 PM
Same and only Gunner as far as I know. I did get a pic and it does show a broken chain. However there's NO way the lowside caused that. I'm with you here Blitz. Someone fucked up and probably took the tensioner loose and reinstalled it without resetting it. (One possibility) Now, to this poor fellow that had this happen. There's no reason for this to happen in a 100mph Highside let alone a 3mph lowside. Something is fishy here. I guess that I missed the point where you had picked it up from the shop just before the problem. NOT saying your friend isn't your friend BUT! He may have made an honest mistake and fucked up and just don't know how to tell you. It's possible. It's also possible that he did nothing wrong, BUT again motors just don't eat cam chains. Those type of chains are used because they are way stronger than needed for that job in the first place. It's highly unlikely that it just failed. It's damn near solid sideplates. Hy-Vo style chain. Like I stated to you by e-mail the tensioner is spring loaded and keeps a constant pressure on the chain. Once it moves out so far it locks at that position and can't ever reset until it's removed and reset. However if it's removed and NOT reset BUT reinstalled that would spell trouble with a capital T! The chain is tough but the power of 200 Hp is tougher. The power of the motor would snap it. Although I would almost think it would eat the tensioner slides up first. Look at those close when you take the shit apart. If they're eat up it's a dead giveaway. Anyway sorry about your troubles.
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blitzkrieg
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posted April 03, 2006 04:08 PM
Yeah, I'd like to see the cam chain tensioner housing carefully removed and then everything photo'ed.
Lots of forensic evidence to be had there.
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jhinderliter
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posted April 03, 2006 04:08 PM
all i know is that motor hasnt been touched internally before just bolted a few goodies on and kept the oil changed...so i dont know what else to say!!! but to say shit dosent just fail would be inacurate wouldnt you say? we dont live in a perfect world do we? ive been in this business long enuf to see shit fail before its time in all kinds of circumstances....
the main point of my thread was to seek advice on a solution...i need to go thru this motor im looking at a muzzy kit which looks like the easyiest solution for the bottom end...the head will need to be rebuilt as well...i was looking for feedback on where to send my head...streetability/reliability issues w/ the bottom end kits...im looking for something i can ride everyday not a finikey (sp?) monster...
thanks
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blitzkrieg
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posted April 03, 2006 04:16 PM
Please don't misunderstand my intentions.
I'm trying to give knowledgeable advice here and this intrigues the hell out of me.
I know your motor is fucked, but if there was a failure we should learn from it, not?
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jhinderliter
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Hacksaw
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posted April 03, 2006 04:29 PM
of course...i agree...one of the reasons im posting here...im just saying 'yea my motor is f*@ked' ....now im in 'move on' i need to get this thing back together 'cause its time to ride...
please dont take me wrong either , i appreciate all the feedback...
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gunner
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posted April 03, 2006 04:36 PM
Edited By: gunner on 3 Apr 2006 18:37
Understand that I thought you were trollin here and trying to bad mouth the 12R. I understand that what you have going on is a bad thing and it's on the up and up. Sorry for the bad luck.
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jhinderliter
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posted April 03, 2006 05:46 PM
dats koo....no blood no foul right? now how about some feedback on my engine build!!im a gearhead like any other guy here....i always enjoyed reading about you guys w/ the big bore kits and the like but i always considered it 'pie in the sky' in my application as i could never justify sinking a few grand into a pefectly functional motor on a whim...i was content w/ my fate as a 'bolt stuff on bad ass stock bike' regular joe... so here is my chance to build a motor as i cant find a bike out there on todays market that catches my eye or offers me the combination ive found in my beloved 12r..
peace
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gunner
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posted April 03, 2006 08:28 PM
Check out the thread in this section by Y2KZX12R about his stroker build-up. It's full of great info and Jim is a good guy that will share any info you need for a successful build up. Again I thought you were trollin before and bad mouthing my beloved 12R. I'm honestly scratchin my head on what caused your failure as I'm sure many of these other guys are. Please post up more pics of the rest of the internals so maybe we can all figure out what in the hell went wrong. Also you may want to PM MAD MIKE for a motor build up how to. I think I seen him offer to do a motor for someone just the other day. As either guy will tell you it's all in the assembly of these motors. The best parts assembled by someone not familure with the 12's little secrets will produce short lived junk. Be advised
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Y2KZX12R
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posted April 04, 2006 05:40 AM
Geez, what would break the chain? I guess either bending it backwards or excessive tension.
It sounds like the engine may have jerked at low rpm and the tensioner released. Allowing the chain to jump and bind thus breaking and snaking up around the crank.
????? Wiithout actually seeing it its hard to tell really. So its just a guess.
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jhinderliter
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Hacksaw
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posted April 04, 2006 06:12 AM
hey does any know off hand if the cam chain gear on the crank can be replaced or am i out a crank?
thanks again
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