VincentHill
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posted January 15, 2006 09:33 AM
 Edited By: VincentHill on 15 Jan 2006 09:35
Article in Motorcyclist May 2001Muzzy got 182 HP from a ZX12
Today while looking for an article about the ZRX (Muzzy 150+ HP) I saw an article about a 182 HP ZX12R. Thinking I had done really good to get 183 out of my bike with Stock internals a year later I wanted to see what they had done. Turns out this was a 1270 Kit with their Pipe and tuning a Power Commander. If that is what they got out of the 1270, now I see why most people are getting about 178 to 180 Hp out of a 1270 Kit. I have yet to see 185 out of one with out "Special" fuel. SO for people thinking that their 1270 is not running right becaue they are not making 185 to 190 HP you are only a few HP off the Master's figures. It also looks like this was done at Kawasaki and not at Muzzy's shop. I also feel even better about me getting 183 SAE HP and 101 ft TQ in August 2002
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Y2KZX12R
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posted January 15, 2006 05:17 PM
Vince, your right on the money... My best was 181/101 also. The manual says 178hp (counter shaft hp).
I'll bet a 12r with 180rwhp can do 200 mph under good conditions.
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Phantom Menace
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posted January 15, 2006 05:52 PM
Dyno's vary from day to day and dyno to dyno and bike to bike.
My 03 with just an akra, bmc,pc3r (no timing added) made 177rwhp / 98rwt SAE on a normal 4th gear pull with a dj250.
........and that was with 13.0:1 A/F and the muzzy dry nitrous kit that goes inside the airbox which creates turbulance.
My buddy with the same year, same mods, same mileage, same tuner map, same dyno got 183rwhp on his ZX12R. (alcindus)
Stock stacks, stock compression, stock pistions, stock cams, stock cam degree, etc...
the valve cover had never been taken off either our bikes.
I've seen various other 12R's in my area make between 175-181rwhp on the same dyno.
So I don't think 180+rwhp is unbelieveable, especially with the bear stacks and the bike tuned for max power on the dyno instead of max performance for the street.
I really don't see how guys are only getting 178-180rwhp from their 1270's unless they are on a pesimistic dyno on a bad day. (which is entirely possible).
In the end I think it's more about how their rwhp compares to that of similar bikes on the same dyno.
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trenace
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posted January 15, 2006 07:35 PM
Another consideration is that STD reads 4.4% higher than STD, and the Muzzy site reports in STD.
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VincentHill
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posted January 16, 2006 07:35 AM
Edited By: VincentHill on 16 Jan 2006 08:22
quote:
Another consideration is that STD reads 4.4% higher than STD, and the Muzzy site reports in STD.
This was / Had to be SAE other wise it would have been closer to 190 HP..The #1 thing I have seen in all of the 1270 is more Torque! All seem to have at least 100 Ft Lbs
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TRNorBRN6001
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posted January 16, 2006 07:58 AM
Very Nice tunning Mr. Hill. My old ZX12 only put out around 172, But it only had a slip on. It does kind of suck when Muzzy claims 200HP (1270) and 210HP (1375) with the only other mods being a PC, Fuel pump, and I think a Pipe. Most everyone is under 200HP unless they have head work and/or cams.
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VincentHill
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posted January 16, 2006 08:27 AM
quote:
Very Nice tunning Mr. Hill. My old ZX12 only put out around 172, But it only had a slip on. It does kind of suck when Muzzy claims 200HP (1270) and 210HP (1375) with the only other mods being a PC, Fuel pump, and I think a Pipe. Most everyone is under 200HP unless they have head work and/or cams.
Maybe what one person said here is true, they are using STD HP. I have no problem with them using a Pipe, PC, and even Oxygenated fuel to reach 200 HP but only if it is SAE HP. Until I read the article, I always thought that maybe it was the Installation or some other variable that led to no one ever getting over 185 HP and most being high 170's and low 180's
AT least we do have a few people here that really know exactly what kind of HP and how much! DM & RM 
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trenace
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posted January 16, 2006 08:30 AM
TR, Muzzy is very straightforward on their site that their figures are STD.
True, it's not a decision I agree with to provide STD as SAE is the more standard, but STD is a standard too, it's not "wrong," and when it's stated straight out that that's what it is, it's totally true.
The problem just is that many will see, for example, 200 hp STD claimed and forget to figure that that corresponds to 191-192 hp SAE. Instead they expect 200 SAE... but that was never claimed.
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TRNorBRN6001
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posted January 16, 2006 08:52 AM
Yeah, somtimes that weather station seems to migrate outside in the sun and that dyno ends up infront of the air conditioner. Ha,ha,ha.
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trenace
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posted January 16, 2006 09:47 AM
Edited By: trenace on 16 Jan 2006 09:51
That it is STD is presented by Muzzy's for the 1317 kit, and previously was presented for the 1270 though I wasn't able to find it on the site presently.
That would be 194.4 SAE hp.
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your car is slow
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Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
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posted January 16, 2006 10:19 AM
wouldnt the correction factor from std to sae also have alot to do with altitude, humidity, temp, etc etc?
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trenace
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posted January 16, 2006 10:28 AM
Edited By: trenace on 16 Jan 2006 10:30
Actually no, it's a matter of definition: one SAE hp equals 1.044 STD hp, or one STD hp equals 0.958 SAE hp.
If you do a given run, and get printouts of both SAE and STD, the STD will always be 104.4% the SAE value, and the SAE always 95.8% of the STD value. It's just how the dyno does the math, on account of the standards being defined as they are.
In other words STD's "correction" is 4.4% higher than SAE's correction, regardless of what the starting point is (that is, independent of the temperature and pressure.)
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your car is slow
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Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
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posted January 16, 2006 10:31 AM
gotcha....id always assumed the "corrected" value had to do with differing conditions to make all dyno charts relatively equal in comparison.
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trenace
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posted January 16, 2006 11:13 AM
Edited By: trenace on 16 Jan 2006 12:00
Which is exactly correct as far as each STD and SAE compare to "uncorrected hp": both SAE and STD do correct up or down varying amounts from the uncorrected depending on conditions so as to, as you say, make all dyno charts of the same kind relatively equal in comparison -- but they do it in parallel with each other with that 4.4% offset, the STD always being that much higher.
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VincentHill
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posted January 16, 2006 01:59 PM
Good Stuff Trenace. Now we all know why everyone is not getting the SAE HP they thought they should and why the Motorcyclist article showed 182 They used SAE HP
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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