navpreet318
Expert Class
one crazy 12
Posts: 192
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posted January 14, 2006 07:10 PM
ok then.....on the double....more pics comin......
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2005 ZX-12R,Arata Full Ti, PC3,Gillis
Rearsets,Muzzy Velocity Stacks,BMC
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GUNNER
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted January 14, 2006 07:13 PM
Good deal Sir! Maybe we can figure this deal out and get you all straitened out.
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navpreet318
Expert Class
one crazy 12
Posts: 192
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posted January 14, 2006 07:23 PM
here you go
these are the plastic parts which have burnt from the top.....
let me know if you want any more pics.....
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2005 ZX-12R,Arata Full Ti, PC3,Gillis
Rearsets,Muzzy Velocity Stacks,BMC
Race filters.One Crazy 12
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GUNNER
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted January 14, 2006 07:52 PM
 Edited By: GUNNER on 14 Jan 2006 20:46
Man your seal is completely crawled out of your rear wheel hub!! AS far as it can anyway. It's clean up against the spacer shoulder. NOT GOOD! I strongly suspect that your chain adjuster bolt on the left side was left loose at some time allowing your wheel to be pulled sideways by the force of the drive chain. This got so bad that the seal started Cork screwing it's way up the spacer on the right side. Added to this is the brake pad wear problem that indicates a severly cocked wheel. NOT a slightly cocker wheel, but a severly cocked one. Investigate your Axle and bearing. I'll bet you'll have wear on the axle.
That's my idea of what has happened maybe I'm wrong BUT I doubt it.
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TedG
Moderator
Posts: 8222
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posted January 14, 2006 08:21 PM
Gunner is most likely right here, what happens is the caliper will line up with the swing arm, It is possible the caliper bracket is bent from something hitting it.
As for rear brakes, don't believe everything you read. The rear brakes can give you much more control and added braking power in certain situations. It helps me steer the bike mid corner. I also use it under power to keep things under control especially if the throttle is abrupt, it can smooth things out dramatically. I wear out rear pads quicker than fronts, but then again I am an old flat tracker and that is all we had was rear brakes.
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Ted
2000 Green ZX12 sold
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Green 2005 ZX10R
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GUNNER
Needs a life
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posted January 14, 2006 08:39 PM
Edited By: GUNNER on 14 Jan 2006 20:51
Yea look at the second pic down at how the seal is eat up and all over the hub of the wheel. Dude that has nothing to do with the brake. The brake problem is a symtom of a much worse problem. The seal is also a symtom of the same problem. I'll bet once you investigate you'll find the axle and bearings are also affected from the problem. The problem is 160 Hp 90 plus foot pounds of torque pulling on an unrestrained wheel. The axle nut alone can't hold the power and it's pointing clearly at the adjustment bolt not properly adjusted or left loose.
Look at the pic under that at how crooked the brake hanger is where it rest against the inside of the swingarm. NO DOUBT YOUR WHEEL IS COCKED LIKE A MOTHER!!!!!!! Although the brake hanger is probably bent now because it's all that kept the wheel from getting any worse twisted. It was pinned against the inside of the swingarm. It probably saved your ass. NOW all ya gots to do is fix it all 
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speedgene
Zone Head
Posts: 996
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posted January 14, 2006 09:07 PM
Nav, you are getting way too much input. Try to follow this. Y2K and Slug are leading you in the right direction. The "quad seal is inside the caliper" Pump the caliper piston out. You will see a wide square seal sitting in the caliper. Remove this, and clean the gunk under the q-seal.
I will show you evidence why it narrows down to the q-seal.
In your first photos, the pad is worn perfect. See how one side still has material left on it? When you apply the brake, the caliper piston becomes cocked in the housing. It still moves under lever pressure, but what happens is the forward edge of the piston is farther out in the front than the back. This also has less straight flat pressure, as if the disc didn't move at all. But under braking, the tolerance in the caliper lets the piston rock, and when it does, there is a more concentrated pressure to one side of the pad than the other. Your pad wear is normal in my opinion.
I will regurgitate what Y2K said before. Is it the hose, M/C, or caliper? How can you tell who is at fault? One person said hose. Ok, check the hose for internal collapse. Pull the brake lever to set problem in action. Break the banjo bolt at the M/C first. This way, you can tell if the pressure is on the M/C side? If the liquid squirts out, look for a clogged return hole in the M/C. Tighten banjo bolt.
Pump the lever to make sure you have a good pedal. Squeeze and sustain pressure at the lever for 10/15 sec. Release, and now break loose the banjo on the caliper. No squirt? Then it is neither the hose that is collapsed, or the M/C with a closed orifice.
What could be left? The caliper q-ring. Change both q-rings. Remember that both calipers were in the same environment, and both calipers use the same brake fluid. It's only a matter of time before the other caliper seizes. If you live in a heavy tropical area of the world, then more condensation than normal might have entered the brake system. Water is heavier than oil, so if there is water, it will settle to the lowest spot. The caliper is pretty low and vulnerable to water settling out in the caliper housing. One reason for the q-ring to become crystallized under the rubber ring.
Your other pictures with the rear axle nut...notice how clean the nut is against the swing arm. If the nut was loose, rust would form from the back and forth movement, and slowly wear the metal away. This is a clean nut/swing area. Your wheel seal(s) look in position to me? If someone saw a seal walking out in your photo, it sure looks like the same metal as the hub. Might this be a casting flange? Note no metal or rubber contaminants of the seal is anywhere on the metal areas. All I see (axle pic.) is wet, pepper'd seal oil on your hub. That is caused by the new grease when the bike was assembled at the factory. The grease with the dust on the hub is just that. peppered road grime on the hub. Good photos. Sorry if somone sees something different. I see no other problems but a simple caliper seize issue.
Replace the two q-rings and brake pads. I believe this is your only problem.
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E-tard
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navpreet318
Expert Class
one crazy 12
Posts: 192
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posted January 14, 2006 09:09 PM
gunner......the seal is out coz the axle was loosened by me at that moment.....i took out the wheel and cleaned and greased the seal and the spacer....now it is inside....
i have rotated the wheel and it looks pretty straight to me....i don't think its cocked.....
and the axle or the bearings did not have any wear....i've checked everything.....the only problem is with those black plastic parts.....
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2005 ZX-12R,Arata Full Ti, PC3,Gillis
Rearsets,Muzzy Velocity Stacks,BMC
Race filters.One Crazy 12
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GUNNER
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted January 14, 2006 09:16 PM
The seal still isn't suppose to fall out. And all the Black rubber on the Hub aint suppose to be there. Also unless your 05 is majorly different your axle is in backwards. The Nut goes on the left Sir.
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navpreet318
Expert Class
one crazy 12
Posts: 192
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posted January 14, 2006 09:18 PM
yup gunner i've changed the direction of the axle now....i'll just post a pic now....after tightening the axle.....
and btw quit with the sir stuff....i'm probably younger than you have quite a lot to learn from you guys.....so maybe i should call you gunner sir.....
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2005 ZX-12R,Arata Full Ti, PC3,Gillis
Rearsets,Muzzy Velocity Stacks,BMC
Race filters.One Crazy 12
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GUNNER
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Posts: 5778
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posted January 14, 2006 09:22 PM
Please don't. Gunner or Mike will do fine
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navpreet318
Expert Class
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Posts: 192
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posted January 14, 2006 09:25 PM
here is the axle after reinstallation
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2005 ZX-12R,Arata Full Ti, PC3,Gillis
Rearsets,Muzzy Velocity Stacks,BMC
Race filters.One Crazy 12
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navpreet318
Expert Class
one crazy 12
Posts: 192
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posted January 14, 2006 09:26 PM
well mike then navpreet will be fine here.....do check the pics.....i think the axle is ok...there is no wear on the axle.....atall....
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2005 ZX-12R,Arata Full Ti, PC3,Gillis
Rearsets,Muzzy Velocity Stacks,BMC
Race filters.One Crazy 12
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navpreet318
Expert Class
one crazy 12
Posts: 192
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posted January 14, 2006 09:30 PM
quote:
Apply the brake hard and then release. open bleeder and see if it shoots out. If it does then the inner lining of the hose could be torn away acting like a check valve holding pressure in the line. Or the caliper is bad and sticking from bad seals.
Sence your bike is new with few miles its most likely a problem that existed from the factory.
If you dont see fluid pressure being held in the caliper when you crack the bleeder. Its most likely a mechanical (caliper o-ring)problem.
i did this procedure and the oil did not shoot out....so the hose is fine.....so i think the only problem lies in the o-rings of the caliper....it needs a reassembly with all new rubber and plastic parts....
____________
2005 ZX-12R,Arata Full Ti, PC3,Gillis
Rearsets,Muzzy Velocity Stacks,BMC
Race filters.One Crazy 12
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GUNNER
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
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posted January 14, 2006 09:33 PM
Well, Sir is shorter and respectful BUT Navpreet it is 
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Y2KZX12R
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CompetitionCNC.com
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posted January 15, 2006 04:56 AM
quote:
i did this procedure and the oil did not shoot out....so the hose is fine.....so i think the only problem lies in the o-rings of the caliper....it needs a reassembly with all new rubber and plastic parts....
Ok good, so now you know its not a hydraulic problem.
Can you verify if the axle was perpendicular to the centerline of the bike?
On my bike the marks on the swingarm are off 1/2 a mark from perpendicular. Use the string method to align your rear axle. Then write down how far off the chain side is from the brake side. On my bike the center line is also off a few mm to the driver side when the axle is perpendicular.
My bike needs to go to GMD Computrack big time to get the frame bent up into shape. Who the hell knows how far out the front end is?
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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navpreet318
Expert Class
one crazy 12
Posts: 192
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posted January 15, 2006 08:43 AM
could you please detail this method....i might be late in replying....my net computer is playing games with me.....
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2005 ZX-12R,Arata Full Ti, PC3,Gillis
Rearsets,Muzzy Velocity Stacks,BMC
Race filters.One Crazy 12
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navpreet318
Expert Class
one crazy 12
Posts: 192
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posted January 15, 2006 08:49 AM
also while at it can you also tell me a method of checking and aligning the front end....i mean the front forks.....
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2005 ZX-12R,Arata Full Ti, PC3,Gillis
Rearsets,Muzzy Velocity Stacks,BMC
Race filters.One Crazy 12
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slug
Pro
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posted January 15, 2006 08:00 PM
make sure you lubricate the Q-seals and piston backs liberally with the supplied grease.
  
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speedgene
Zone Head
Posts: 996
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posted January 16, 2006 12:55 AM
Edited By: speedgene on 16 Jan 2006 00:56
I've never seen a "supplied grease" in any quad ring package from the factory? It's bad enough a chemical reaction has to render the brake system non-op, but adding another foreign agent to the mix is not a wise move IMO.
It's been common practice to lube the o-ring with brake fluid. I'd like to guide anyone doing brake work, to use nothing but brake fluid when lubing/rebuilding "caliper internals." Of course, if there is a lube inside a genuine quad ring package, then I stand corrected. The wonders of chemistry through the years.
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E-tard
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slug
Pro
Out in search of my mind...
Posts: 1433
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posted January 16, 2006 04:43 AM
just one of the 4 seals. each caliper pack came with 4 seals and a pack of the pink lube.
This is a Yamaha OEM seal set, so aftermarket sets may not come with all the amenities.
So far i've put 30K on the bike since the caliper rebuild (at 31K) without any more troubles.
one stupid ride on the cherohala with snow on it...buggered all KINDS of stuff up...
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