supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted April 14, 2006 01:30 PM
according to the Sport RIder Magazine "Big Dogs" the zx12r "can pull as much gearing as the rev limiter will allow". If Keith Parnell is right and nobody has disputed the existence of the "phantom machine" it is logical that a ZX12r with more gearing and more rpm, with a camshaft that will allow the motor to hold peak power longer will continue to accelerate past 192 mph. Of course your weight has something to do with it. But Im speaking from the mind set of 160 pound rider..
supra
   
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Marcos Peguero
Zone Head
Posts: 568
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posted April 14, 2006 01:43 PM
how do I get in contact with the person that fixes the ECU.
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted April 14, 2006 09:15 PM
 Edited By: your car is slow on 14 Apr 2006 22:16
quote:
according to the Sport RIder Magazine "Big Dogs" the zx12r "can pull as much gearing as the rev limiter will allow". If Keith Parnell is right and nobody has disputed the existence of the "phantom machine" it is logical that a ZX12r with more gearing and more rpm, with a camshaft that will allow the motor to hold peak power longer will continue to accelerate past 192 mph. Of course your weight has something to do with it. But Im speaking from the mind set of 160 pound rider..
supra
weight has little to do with top speed.
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted April 15, 2006 06:23 AM
quote:
I love this topic. On Mach 3, the 12 was always hurting ever so in the corners - why - because the stock suspension was not set up. Once set up the preload front and rear, the 12 would not be overtaken in the corners. As for straight line, no one to date will ever make a better Ram Air ever again - unless it looks like the 12s. The b series pulled better Dyno numbers because it is static. Move both bikes through the air at speed and the 00-01 ram air setup is superior.
Hear is one for you all -
Take the wires going to/from the gear selector switch that are gear number Four(4), Five (5), and (6) and cut them and splice all three wires into gear number Three(3) wire. This will make the ECU think its in THIRD GEAR whenever gear 4,5,or 6 is choosen.
Tell me what happens...............:-)
zx23r: Where are you on this topic, why not tell us what happens/d??!!??
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You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted April 18, 2006 12:22 PM
Hey fellers,
Sorry I've been absent for all this mental masturbation. Lately I've been kind of busy with some other stuff (now, most of the time I'm pissed if I have to slow down to under 200) I do have a few comments, though.
"Top speed ( Vmax) will be found when the power required exactly equals the power available"
The power required is fixed for a given frontal area, body shape, final drive ratio (torque multiplication), available distance, and available traction.
The power available is always changing, even for a fixed engine combination due to atmospherics.
To return to the oft cited example of "The Maxton Runs",
distance was limited (it was .9 mi) and the power was severly curtailed due to high density altitude (high temperature and humidity resulting in low air density). On the day those runs were made available power was reduced by about 20%. Keep that in mind when making comparisons.
Given that reduction in power, taller gearing than stock was fruitless because the available distance was too short to reach Vmax. Shorter gearing than stock could and on occasion did result in tagging the limiter.
So let's take the rev limiter out of the whole question and expand the distance available to "infinite".
The power availble to propel the bike down the road is the engine's torque output multiplied by the gear ratio. Torque multiplication is a wonderful thing, but this same multiplication reduces the rpm at the wheel in the higher gears. So, to make the wheel spin faster we actually have to reduce the availble torque. The key to finding top speed (given unlimited distance) is to find the optimum "balance point" of the torque and rpm AT THE WHEEL for the power available AT THE CONDITIONS AT THAT MOMENT IN TIME. Gear too short and the engine runs out of power as the power drops off due to declining volumetric efficiency at high rpms. Gear too tall and the torque multiplication is insufficient to increase the speed due to the exponentially increasing drag as the speed rises. It won't "pull the gear".
Herein lies the beautyy and mystique of Bonneville. It is literally the ONLY place where you have unlimited distance and time so that you can search for the sweet spot of power, gearing, traction and shape without a moments inattention killing you. I have changed gears 10 times in a day chasing that spot, changed cam timing three times in a week, compression ratio twice in a day.
What I'm saying is that The speed Psycho made was his best for that bike, with that engine on that day. Same for Lorcan, Keith, ZX23rr, Bergie, etc....
zx23, you are exactly right about the seating position but, it's not easy to find. You usually just don't have the time. It's very subtle and changes with everyone's size.
Again, the beauty of Bonneville you have the time to search for the sweet spot.
here try this-
Look at a stop watch or clock - Note the start the watch as you mentally leave the line on a slippery drag race, watch it for 15 seconds, that gets you to about 150 mph- give it a few more ticks and you're clicking into 5th, let it climb for a little longer, click sixth at about 185. Now start playing with your tuck and find the sweet spot, up on your toes with your butt off the seat and your back arched and your helmet down under the bubble cocked to the side a little and your eyes way up high trying to stay in the middle of the course. At this point you've covered about about 2 miles in about 20 seconds. Now, just sit there and stare at the watch for 54 more seconds while you cover the next three miles at about 300 feet per second. Only THAT will give you the time you need to find the sweet spot. And, it gets you REAL familiar with 200 + mph.
Doug
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wannabe
Pro
Posts: 1931
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posted April 20, 2006 10:59 PM
Thanks for that post, Doug. Now you have me really excited about Bonneville. 
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted April 21, 2006 07:58 AM
isn't there wheel spin at bonneville?
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TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
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posted April 21, 2006 10:13 AM
YOU GUYS Are Killing Me!!!!!!!! But......................I'll have to put a couple cents in too.
First, for the person who wants to extend ECU, PM Entropy as he knows Dave O who
has done a large number of extended ECU's
Second, Rhantom you Flyers over there are killing me too. You all have one of the
best venues in the world at 1.5 Miles and you should be stomping all over the US
venues. That would be a great testing ground to have two jockeys fly on each bike
at the same time. Most of the big over 200mph flyer bikes here in the US concrete
venues are turbos and few are Nos and even fewer are N/A. Hope the Land of Tea
and Crumpets can post some big numbers this year. Isn't the fastest bike out there
a Turbo ZX-12?
Third, ZX-12 / Busa top speed wars I love it. Hope Top speed wars never end.
Stock for me (6' and 250lbs naked) both bikes are extremely stable at speed.
Top speed for me was around 177 -181 in 1 mile. With a small touch of nos
195.74 in 1Mile. I own a 12 and my brother owns a Busa. At the Texas Mile
we switched bikes and for my size his bike seemed much more aerodynamic.
Much less wind turbulence on my legs and it felt as though I were in a pocket
of air. To each his own though. I'll stick to my 12 just to do it different.
My hats off to those guys that fly over 200mph, it's easier said than done.
____________
TFA 200MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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