MadMike
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FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
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posted April 02, 2006 10:55 AM
cool! but I might have been able to hook you up with an Interstate dealer.... and they would have probably matched the price... but it is great to support the local guys also!!! cause when you really need something they are right there and can help...
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Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
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posted April 03, 2006 02:16 AM
The battery install. Nice fitting battery.
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Y2KZX12R
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posted April 05, 2006 05:23 AM
One thing I was going to post when I was putting the crank in... The #2 rod clears the starter gear by .015" !!!
Very tight. But it does clear.
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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Y2KZX12R
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posted April 20, 2006 07:38 AM
Rick, (CR) are you still planning to buy a zx14?
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Y2KZX12R
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Y2KZX12R
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posted May 06, 2006 03:08 AM
Going to dyno the bike next weekend and get a map made.
Does anyone have an adj. timing advancer for the 12r?
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Y2KZX12R
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posted July 08, 2006 04:29 AM
 Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 8 Jul 2006 06:15
Finally got the bike mapped. The driveability from 1000-3000 was crap before the mapping.
Its very smooth now. John at dyno solutions did an excelent job mapping it for driveability.
Night and day difference!!!
This dyno reads very LOW incase you cant tell. Its a very new DJ250i dyno.
http://www.dyno-solutions.com/index2.html
The dyno is mounted in a trailer and has a large exhaust fan and its all closed up when he does runs. I'm thinking that maybe the exhaust fan in the roof is dropping the barometric pressure quite a bit inside the trailor and thus causing the abnormaly low readings. If the dyno measures the barometric pressure DURING the run then its not a factor but if it takes a reading and then stores the settings and then you turn the fans on and do a run then this would explain it. Or it could be air contamination from the exhaust of the bike.? Who knows but it seems to read very low.
For reference i'm putting up two of my buddies bikes that were done on the same dyno.
Daves bike is an 04 zx10r with head work from NPS racing and the kawi racing intake cam.
Scotts bike is a 100% stock 06 gsxr1000.
Everyone seems to like STD corrected HP lately so its shown in STD.
I'll have a file of a zx14 run on this dyno soon. That will be very interesting to compare.
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted July 08, 2006 05:06 AM
Jim you have an Akrapovic on it right???
I will most likely get the 14 in 2007...
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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Y2KZX12R
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posted July 08, 2006 05:09 AM
No Its got a yoshimura rs-3 duplex race.
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted July 08, 2006 05:13 AM
So tell us about the feel of the finished product 
Did you ride it on the highway yet???
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted July 08, 2006 05:21 AM
wow y2k good dyno run..
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted July 08, 2006 05:24 AM
looks like if you put it on brocks or muzzys dyno youd have 215 rwhp....
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
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posted July 08, 2006 05:29 AM
quote:
looks like if you put it on brocks or muzzys dyno youd have 215 rwhp....
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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GUNNER
Needs a life
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posted July 08, 2006 07:37 AM
Actually Jim after much thought about it thaT DYNO LOOKS from 7 to 10 low for some reason. The worked on 10 motor is for sure low, but the BONE STOCK K6 should be alot closer to 160 than 150.
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supra5677
Pro
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posted July 08, 2006 09:46 AM
actually that .381 lift intake cam on the 10 looks real sweet.. Im going to try the same on my 12r with more rpm should be ok
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supra5677
Pro
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posted July 08, 2006 09:48 AM
the power peaks out at 10,000 and holds to the limiter.. Limiter is 11625 .. basically 1500 wasted rpms... there is defentely more in it..
the 10r pulls all the way to 12,700..and cuts power down just before the limiter.. the 12 or 1375 has the potential to do the same thing
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VincentHill
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posted July 08, 2006 01:26 PM
Y2KZX12R, PLEAZE (Everyone seems to like STD  ) I think is is more like you did not want to post numbers in the Mid 180's after all of that work! What did it make SAE? 187? 185? Was the Torque at least over 105 SAE?
Any way you want to slice it, you are waay the Hell-0 over what the Factory ZX14 is doing, but lets see the real numbers! Here are my Best on the Stock engine (Valve covers never off the engine and in SAE Numbers) Three different expirements and every run over 180 HP!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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Y2KZX12R
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posted July 08, 2006 07:07 PM
Rick, its very very smooth down low now with the new map. At 4000 rpm it will lift the front rolling into it. Totally different animal than 1199cc. This is my daily driver street bike that i go play with the liter bikes with on sunday mornings with.
I'm more of a road race type rider than a drag racer so this midrange power is awsome and the frame etc. handles it excelent.
All I can say is Its like riding a CR500. Ever ride one of those? Ya gotta get off of the throttle to let it turn, then get right back on it hard. Its so smooth now even better than when the bike was 100% stock.
Vince SAE is 191/110.
At 1199cc it made SAE 181/101 on 3 different dynojet 150's But lately it seems Muzzys and others are posting STD hp. SAE was always "the" standard. In any case, it doesnt really matter. What matters is that no zx14 with or without a pipe is going to pull on me. I'll get a dyno chart of a 14 on this particular dyno soon....
But these 250's with load control dont read the same. They read more like a Factory or a superflow both of which are eddy current brakes.
Theres nothing like a good ole waterbrake dyno.
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countersteer
Needs a job
Didn't read the owners manual
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posted July 08, 2006 07:27 PM
quote:
its very very smooth down low now with the new map. At 4000 rpm it will lift the front rolling into it. Totally different animal than 1199cc. This is my daily driver street bike that i go play with the liter bikes with on sunday mornings with.
I'm more of a road race type rider than a drag racer so this midrange power is awsome and the frame etc. handles it excelent.
...
What matters is that no zx14 with or without a pipe is going to pull on me.
+1
aint nothin else like it in the world!
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Scott
Long Island, New York
2006 ZX-14, 2003 ZX-12R
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
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posted July 08, 2006 09:04 PM
Sounds like alot of fun with that awesome power at 4000rpm!!!
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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Y2KZX12R
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posted July 09, 2006 03:46 AM
Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 9 Jul 2006 05:19
Supra, I have the cams set for a compromise of midrange and topend. I think if I had the cams set for peak power it wouldnt table top like that as much.
Vince, at 1199cc it was 181/101. But i prefered 178/101 on the street. The bike ran way better with the intake cam advanced for twisties on the road, but it cost a few hp up top. A trade off well worth it for the street.
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VincentHill
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posted July 09, 2006 04:16 AM
Edited By: VincentHill on 9 Jul 2006 05:34
Y2K, There are other reasons I asked! I know what Bear's ZX14 made on the Dyno but only in SAE and Muzzy has alwasy used STD, but I fekt it was to show a bigger number for advertising to sell stuff. Again, I have never been to a Drag race where the temps were in the 50's! I have been to some Road Races where I saw "SNOW" Falling but that was and is the exceptions
Now to what I think (Not that it is important). First, I think your numbers are off by about 20 HP. I have read and watched the Build and other than the "Window" between 2 &3 as DM Pointed out, EVERYTHING Seems to be done Correctly and the way to make the best power. One thing I did not see (I could have missed it) was about the Oil Squirters? I know that opening all of them takes a little HP Away but the additional Piston cooling for a street engine should be worth it!
My questions are about the RIngs, Break in and the engine Compression? The #1 difficulty Nowadays is that the Oil is just too good to get break in which is why I assemble the pistons and rings with SA - ND Oil. If it is only the Top end that is new, I even run this Straight 30 weight Non Detergent Oil in the engine for about 50 miles before I switch to the Cheapest 10 w 40 Honda Oil.
Have you done a "Compression" Test on all of the Cylinders? Are they nearly the same numbers? Are the Numbers at least 225 PSI? (I would expect closer to 250)
Last, is the Dyno! I have seen Dyno's that read Low, but if these things are all correct, then those numbers are not to be believed! If this is the Same Dyno that you made 181 SAE HP, then it is not the Dyno because for what you had done, somewhere between 180 and 185 would have been seen on most Dyno's!
Also I cannot see the Image because it has a note "Oops! My Image for this link is no longer
here!
AND yes we are in total agreement that even before you know how this turns out, NO ZX14 will ever look back at you and they have no hope at all of looking as good!!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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Y2KZX12R
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posted July 09, 2006 04:37 AM
It just seems that lately alot of folks are quoting STD hp numbers... I've always refered to STD in the past. The 181/101 was on 2 different dj150's
I've never had my bike on this dyno. This dyno wasnt around untill last year. Its brand new.
I havent done a compression check on it yet. Havent had a reason to. If I was to start playing with cam timing then I would. But if you would like to see what its pumping I'll check it for ya.
Another note, I lowered the compression also. Its about 13.1 not 13.5 a byproduct of chamber work and also I wanted advance the intake cam and was worried about cranking ability when hot. As it turns out I still had to go 24V so I might as well have taken out a shim and gone 13.6 to 1.
As far as ring seal. Modern quality rings only need about 10-15 min on a dyno and they are sealing as good as they ever will. This is assuming the boreing and cylinders are done right. I've seen many ,many, many, racing engines on the DTS engine dyno from top alcohol drag racing engines to sk modifieds and these engines are making peak power after 10 min on the dyno. So ring sealing really isnt an issue with quality rings.
I mapped my block when I got it from Muzzys (melinium) 16 places per cylinder to check for any irregularities and it was excelent. so i can only hope that they use quality rings in the kit sence they were in clear plastic bags with no name.
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VincentHill
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posted July 09, 2006 04:54 AM
If you made 181 on a DJ 150, then on a DJ 250 you should have been making close to 190 HP DJ250,s usually read HIGHER and not lower! I agree with lowering the compression (After all, I only have 10.2 to 1 in my race bike and it makes between 160 to 165 HP which is not bad for stock Bore and Stroke! Yes, I would be courious about the PSI to at least know the seal is good! Those Muzzy rings are a Bitch it install but my thinking was those "Windows" shure would help in getting in the rings!
Also, you did not say about the Oil Squirters?
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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Y2KZX12R
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posted July 09, 2006 07:08 AM
This is the first time I've ever had a bike on a 250. but from what i've gathered over the years I was under the impression that 250's read lower not highter. Much the same ad other eddycurrent dynos like superflow and factory's etc.
I did my own maps on the 12r in the past with an o2 sensor etc. It was well worth paying to have it done this time. I didnt need to ride around for days with shit hooked up etc.
This winter the compression is going back up to 13.6 and the cams are going to get moved because it can afford to loose midrange and it would be nice to have more power above 10,000.
I just got back from a 2 hour ride, thru the B roads here in CT and I'm so freeking impressed how smooth this thing is now. Rolling into the throttle mid turns at 8,000 and powering out to redline is simply "electric". Like its some kind of hybrid electric thing.
This is the best its EVER run. And I dont mean power wise, just smoothness. Even from idle to 3500 its like a CBR1100xx. And if you ever rode one of those with carbs (97) youd know what smooth is.
I didnt do anything with the oil squirters.
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VincentHill
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posted July 09, 2006 07:31 AM
Actually it was the Operator on the 150 that was more important because they Imputed the Humidity and the Air Temp sensor could be located about anywhere and some had them close to the engine for more adjustment in the Outcome. The DJ 250 does everything with out Operator input. I left a 150 where I was making 167 HP and made 175 on the 250. Yes I did some mapping changes, but going from 12.4 to 12.7 range to 12.9 to 13.3 range is not going to make 8 to 10 HP difference.
I asked about the Oil Squirters because you are riding the bike on the street a lot. I would have thought that you would have added the 2 for more piston cooling. It will take a Pony or so but the cooling and heat control should be worth it! Porsche sure believed in them and we do not have to speak of the Suzuki's! I seriously considered adding the other 2 and If I run Bonneville I will ass them!
BTW, your Battery Mount is Titts! You akso know that a 20 Amp battery will fit in the ZX12's mount with only a few modifications!
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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