scooter trash
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posted December 14, 2005 05:39 PM
To each his own, but I would never do this on a street driven bike.
Its not just airborne dust and dirt you gotta worry about, but if you have ever been caught in rain you know that rain from the road is mixed with all sorts of shit from the road, including dirty water mix (read abrasive) that finds its was into everything.
I get caught in at least 3 or 4 mountain thunderstorms a year and I don't want to give that shit anymore of a chance to get in the caliper bores than I have to.
Just my .02
  
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238mph
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posted December 14, 2005 06:01 PM
Blitz... 
A) It doesn't rain in Arizona...
B) My 12 sees no water....
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scooter trash
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posted December 14, 2005 08:31 PM
quote:
Blitz...
A) It doesn't rain in Arizona...
B) My 12 sees no water....
Well, ya know where I am coming from.
Our best riding months here (IMO) are June/July and that is when you are almost guaranteed to get wet riding in the mountains. Occasionally monsoon, dripping wet.
To be clear - I am not criticizing the mod, only saying I would not do it to my bike. 
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tuusinii
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posted December 14, 2005 11:29 PM
Well each to his own but I'll bet that after couple of miles of riding Your calipers are dragging even more because of no dustseals. I'd bet that when it dosen't rain that much in Arizone it really has 100 times more dust than Finland. And when that very tiny dust goes between piston and caliber - well there You are... Of course the less friction there are between Your arm and the brake piston it's better in theory - Rossis bike has even needle bearings on the lever for that reason - but reality isin't that a beautiful and tidy place and even if it removing dustseals may be better in theory it may not be in reality. Come back after 2 weeks and tell us how the wheel is now turning.
And about the brakes. The lever dosen't draw the fluid and pistons away. Its the pressure of the fluid that pushes the brake lever to top. (Well at least most of it) And especially that last couple of 1/100 of mm when there is straight bath from brake lines to the reservoir. I've ones made a test when I noticed that the brakes were dragging just a little and was also wondering why. I rode a little and then stopped without using front brake and then the wheel turned really easy. Also helped by that the wheel bearings were warm.
And 35 years is surely older than I am but doing 35 years things wrong dosen't help either :-) But luckily it ain't my bike - I wouldn't want compromise brake action when travelling 180MPH on autobahn and there is a VW on the left side...
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gunner
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posted December 14, 2005 11:46 PM
I'll bet you're wrong tuusinii I'll bet you would have argue that the world was flat to Chis Columbus..........
Who really cares if what Jere done kills the calipers? It's something to try and if it works than great!!!! If it don't then you simply pitch the shit in the trash and get some more calipers. Dude I've run a set of $1800.00 Ti valve springs on the dyno for 3 pulls and tossed them in the trash! It's the price for knowledge. On any given weekend we would toss 2000 dollars worth of valve springs alone in the trash. So finding out when an $1800.00 set would fail was money well spent.
A set of brake calipers more or less in the world aint going to make much difference 
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slug
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posted December 15, 2005 04:18 AM
it will at the end of that 9.37 run when the fluid goes oozing past the pistons instead of pushing them tight against the rotors....
But the quest for knowledge is interesting when the non-static aspects of life are accounted for.
(like that whole airflow pushing the rotor and pads apart, regardless of the dust seals being tight or not...)
But it is my understanding that the slow periods of a drag event are filled with clutch manipulation to prevent wheel from going north anyway, so that little bit of drag at the beginning isn't detracting from the final run time anyway....by the time the front wheel stops going for the sky the bike is moving fast enough to have enough airflow to spread pad from rotor anyway....
just a thought
  
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238mph
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posted December 15, 2005 07:23 AM
The best that of all you guys arguing over this, is that I bet not one of you have torn down
the calipers on a 12 (other bikes don't count).
So without even knowing what you're talking about... you want to agrue about it...
Gunner, you're right on The world is flat to them...
Just a thought for you guys... Since you guys think the dust is gonna fuck up the seals,
tell me just exactly what do you think keeps the dust from fucking up the dust seals???
Because they are designed exactly the same as the inner seals... Opps, you didn't
know that because you haven't knocked these down yet!!!
And Slug, I know I'm just a total dumbass and have no clue as to what I'm doing on a bike
but I am really curious... have you even run a 9.37 on your 12...??? How about a 10.37?
Maybe an 11.37??? Blahahahahahaaaa
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scooter trash
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posted December 15, 2005 09:38 AM
Actually Jere I HAVE rebuilt the calipers on the 12. Twice.
They are sitting in my basement completely disassembled this time as we speak to be repainted (not gold).
You know me better than to discuss something unless I know first hand what I am talking about.
But like I said, I am not criticizing the theory, only saying I wouldn't do it on my bike.
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gunner
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posted December 15, 2005 09:46 AM
I powdered mine BLACK Scooter!!!!!! Satin Black I did however plug every hole with bolts and done the tape prep work myself before they went into the powder booth. It would be easy for the powder guys to screw them up with that shit if they aren't preped perfectly.
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238mph
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posted December 15, 2005 09:53 AM
BlitzoSchmitzo... I know you know what you're doin... goes without saying...
You just happen to be SMOKIN FUCKIN CRACK... j/k
You even going to finish that thing or should we just drop it in the dumpster and start
over with a new one???
Ask momma for Christmas!!!
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slug
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posted December 15, 2005 10:22 AM
 Edited By: slug on 15 Dec 2005 10:28
it's funny that you can't come up with anything but namecalling to support your own point of view.
or sad, you would think with 51 years of experience you could have *something* useful to say other than "but I am really curious... have you even run a 9.37 on your 12...??? How about a 10.37?
Maybe an 11.37??? Blahahahahahaaaa"
You are right, i haven't done any drag racing, hence the question in my last post about the clutch modulation and such. I try to learn instead of just ridiculing younger people or whatever else you want to call it.
Having never drag raced a 12 by your comments above means that i must be clueless about everything else in life.
With the dust seals in, did you ever ride the bike, stop with the rear brake, and put it on stands and spin tire? It's curious that all you can do is bash and berate instead of admitting hte *possibility* that others with less years of riding *might* have some insight in to your problem with the front brakes.
To be honest i've only rebuilt calipers for the yzf, but the outer seals were slightly different from the inner. The question is this: do you want the first set of seals to fail to be your dust seal or your pressure seal?
Second question: were the dust seals on your bike properly lubricated? I would bet they were dry as a bone. This will add "unacceptable" levels of friction between the piston and the seal. A dry master cylinder seal will make it nearly impossible to move. A dash of lubricant (like brake fluid if all else fails) fixs it nicely.
Third question: can you provide anything to answer my questions here and on my previous post or will it be another chest-thumping "i'm older and can run on the drag-strip faster than you can" session?
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scooter trash
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posted December 15, 2005 10:52 AM
I was rebuilding Kawasaki inline fours when I was two years old and broke the land speed record at the tender age of 5.
I also had sex with a 25 year old woman when I was 9, and yes I gave her multiple orgasms.
Of course all that came to a screeching halt after I won the Nobel Peace Prize and spent the next eight years of my life ending communism in the former USSR.
But I digress.
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238mph
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posted December 15, 2005 11:12 AM
Slug, Blitz and I go way back, I've stayed at his place, we ride, eat and drink till I can't
drink anymore ... so it's all good with us... I wasn't calling him names...
By the way, everyone knows him as "Blitz"...
I don't get shitty with anyone until they start it... so don't dish it if you can't take it...
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238mph
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posted December 15, 2005 11:41 AM
Edited By: 238mph on 15 Dec 2005 11:49
I have to respond to a few of Slug's comments... like "I'm going to wheelie half way
down the track..." so the dragging disc won't slow me and once up to some high speed
the air rushing over the pads will push them away from the rotors... That's a good one.
I like it...
Actually I wheelie the whole way through the 1/4 so I don't need the pads to open
at all... (that's a joke by the way)
I've read a few articles about the theory that air can assist separating the pads from the
rotors at extreme speeds... tests were done, and on a 747 landing around 180knts it
provided about a .5% assist in pad separation. Virtually non-existant.
One place that your idea does work is in a hardrive. The head "floats" on a micron of air...
And something as small as a particle of smoke can ruin a drive platter... but for our
disc brakes, sorry that doesn't do squat.
As for the comment about racing, and not knowing anything... The point of my comment
was that in order to run a quick 1/4 you have to pay attention to all the smallest details
because those add up. And anything that can increase hp, lower weight, or reduce drag
will make the bike go quicker. I'm not one of these guys that buys a bike and simply
rides it... I enjoy the science of the bike, along with the maintenance, as much as riding.
I'm a mechancial engineer, so I like to analyze the design of something, and see what they
were trying to accomplish vs the ideal situation.
If you never want to work on your bike, leave the seals in... that's how Kawai designed it.
For the average guy who only adds gas and oil and doesn't want (or know how) to work
on a bike, the setup is ok... You don't get premium performance, just ok... but maintenance
free... just like your chain... you can keep it smothered in heavy grease (which eats hp)
but you can go a long time wihout adding more... OR you can boil the chain in solvent,
and coat it everytime you ride with WD40, and gain several hp.
It's up to you to decide if you want to settle for less performance but with little maintenace.
People like Gunner and I are all about getting the most out of our bikes... and after every
ride we do the time to check. clean. adjust, and repair as needed.
So there is no right or wrong way to do it... it's just your preference...
I didn't want to get into a pissing match with anyone, and if you go back and read how it
started, it was several of you guys making smartass remarks. You guys bring it on
yourselves, and then wonder why some of the old pros get pissed.... The bottom line is
that all you accomplish is pissing off one more person that doesn't care to help you in
th future when you have a problem and need some help.
I'm always amazed how people on this forum treat treat others... like they'll never meet.
Then a rally comes up, and you run into someone face to face that you've been shitty with.
Damn, don't ya wish you could have been nice all along....
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slug
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posted December 15, 2005 03:07 PM
Edited By: slug on 15 Dec 2005 15:13
makes ya want to go back and pull some of the "stupid" and "clueless" comments eh?
as far as maintenance and power and performance, i see the point, but again, i'm just not willing to recommend removing something like that from my brakes. especially when we are talking the terminal speeds that runs that fast will produce...
It would be interesting to see back to back drag runs, say best of 3, one set with seals, the other set without. The proof is in the puddin' so to say
The 'riding longer than you've been alive' comments tend to come across as REALLY condescending. Had an old-timer on the gap tell me that. He was weaving all over the road, and couldn't stay in his lane. Top speed? 20 mph. I stopped and told him he needed to let someone else drive because if he can't stay in his lane he will eventually kill someone. Next sentence from his mouth? "I've been driving longer than you have been alive" bah.
i thought about saying that in that long driving he should have mastered the skill by now....
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blitzkrieg
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Road kill = Free lunch.
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posted December 15, 2005 03:13 PM
quote:
makes ya want to go back and pull some of the "stupid" and "clueless" comments eh?
You tell 'em Slug.
But be gentle with him, he is going through a period of non-voluntary celibacy.
____________
"BTW....You need to get a girlfriend who's last name isn't .jpg"
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238mph
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posted December 15, 2005 03:38 PM
I'm slow slug... but I'll be at the Gap... maybe you can show Gunner and I how to ride
the Gap... Gunner, you up for it...
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Pilot Powers took me to the grave, and brought me back...
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gunner
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posted December 15, 2005 04:32 PM
OH I'm old and slow as well.. Mr. Slug Sir, Being from Oak Ridge are you part of Calloway's crew by chance?
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blitzkrieg
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Road kill = Free lunch.
Posts: 2044
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posted December 15, 2005 06:12 PM
I guess you didn't notice the "Edited By: slug on 15 Dec 2005 15:13 " before you got all pissed at me for trying to lighten this thread up a bit, huh Jere?
When I (light-heartedly) replied, Slugs thread contained:
makes ya want to go back and pull some of the "stupid" and "clueless" comments eh?
and he edited in (AFTER I POSTED):
as far as maintenance and power and performance, i see the point, but again, i'm just not willing to recommend removing something like that from my brakes. especially when we are talking the terminal speeds that runs that fast will produce...
It would be interesting to see back to back drag runs, say best of 3, one set with seals, the other set without. The proof is in the puddin' so to say
The 'riding longer than you've been alive' comments tend to come across as REALLY condescending. Had an old-timer on the gap tell me that. He was weaving all over the road, and couldn't stay in his lane. Top speed? 20 mph. I stopped and told him he needed to let someone else drive because if he can't stay in his lane he will eventually kill someone. Next sentence from his mouth? "I've been driving longer than you have been alive" bah.
i thought about saying that in that long driving he should have mastered the skill by now....
Now personally I could give a rats ass if somebody pulls their dust seals or not. I just posted here to give an opinion and tried to lighten things up when the bullshit internet chest thumping started getting out of hand.
Shame on me.
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slug
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posted December 15, 2005 06:52 PM
hehe yeh sorry about that, i was gonna post again but didn't want to be accused of whoring. I figured that short terse reply was too...well...negative, so i was trying to lighten things up meself. and explain where i was coming from point of view wise.
You'll find i am relatively slow at the gap, seen too many people get whacked here. Too many rossi-wannabes with too little brains to tell the difference between a freakin road and a track...
Not part of Calloway's crew, don't know calloway? Recent move here though. I like riding 116 a bit better, MUCH lower squid-count, decent roads, nice views. Though TDOT leaves a little to be desired in their bush-hogging operations, leaving all the debris on the road surface....
Last smackdown meetup i actually made it to was gap-4 i think. Spring last year was so hectic with all the broke-dick turbines i missed it. This year better be an improvement, or the warranty folks are gonna be pissed....
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blitzkrieg
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Road kill = Free lunch.
Posts: 2044
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posted December 15, 2005 07:18 PM
Well, for what its worth I would prefer that sometimes people post again rather than edit a post that could cause misunderstanding.
But thats just my opinion.
What is a broke dick turbine -are you a jet mechanic?
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slug
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posted December 15, 2005 07:38 PM
yeh i figured i was gonna edit fast enough to not catch someone in the middle. But suppertime i guess was bad timing. sorry 'bout that one
wind turbine tech http://s1ug.org/wind/11_12_sunset_monday.jpg
sometimes i think the jet engine would be easier to work on....
that 260ft climb sucks monkey nuts when it is 20 degrees out....
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gunner
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posted December 15, 2005 07:44 PM
Edited By: gunner on 15 Dec 2005 20:10
Slug..................Not hanging with that guy is a BIG plus Just checkin
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blitzkrieg
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Road kill = Free lunch.
Posts: 2044
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posted December 15, 2005 07:51 PM
quote:
wind turbine tech http://s1ug.org/wind/11_12_sunset_monday.jpg
sometimes i think the jet engine would be easier to work on....
that 260ft climb sucks monkey nuts when it is 20 degrees out....
Now that is cool.
I remember the first time I drove from Fresno to San Francisco and saw Altamont Pass as I came through the valley.
Very cool. I've never seen that many wind turbines in my life in one spot. Not even close.
Keep up the good work man. The less we depend on petro based energy the better off this country is gonna be.
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238mph
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posted December 15, 2005 09:52 PM
Slug, now that's cool... I'd rather share neat shit with each other than fight over small
stuff... although I don't feel I started anything other than the post, I'm sorry it got ugly.
When I drive back to Florida from Arizona, I pass through a section of Texas that has a
zillion of those on some cliffs... unreal... It would be great to hear more about those...
Do they wack birds? How fast is the tip going when they are at speed??? Details!!!
____________
Pilot Powers took me to the grave, and brought me back...
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