238mph
Pro
Posts: 1145
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posted December 13, 2005 09:31 PM
With the 12 on stands, does your front wheel spin good?
I had my bike up on stands, and I noticed that when I spin the dront wheel, it only goes
maybe one rev, and stops... pads dragging. Is that normal??? I never noticed before
whether they drag or not...
So I did all new lines and pads, as it's a 2002... and it still drags...  This has to suck some
HP ... now it's become an obsession...
What can I do to get them to release fully... I've bled them real good, absolutely no air
in the lines...
Anyone?
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osti33
Needs a job
Posts: 2973
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posted December 13, 2005 09:42 PM
 Edited By: osti33 on 13 Dec 2005 21:44
Look here. Might not be the best idea on a street bike but you could give it a try.
http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewthread.php?FID=13&TID=13950
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beansbaxter
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Posts: 5911
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posted December 13, 2005 09:53 PM
Interesting...
I too was wondering the same thing.
I took off my EBC rotors off my front rim (these are for sale btw) and swapped back on my stock rotors and the wheel just doesnt spin on the bike after I mount the calipers.
I am curious to try those techniques.
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238mph
Pro
Posts: 1145
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posted December 13, 2005 10:02 PM
Thanks osti... that's what I thought... Gunner called... he told me of your link...
So guess what I'm doin tonight... 
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238mph
Pro
Posts: 1145
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posted December 13, 2005 10:10 PM
Edited By: 238mph on 13 Dec 2005 22:10
Just checked them one last time... I get 1/4 of a rotation when I try to spin them...
So I'll tear 'em down, and I'll let ya know if that fixes them...
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osti33
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Posts: 2973
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posted December 13, 2005 10:23 PM
quote:
Thanks osti... that's what I thought... Gunner called... he told me of your link...
No problem. Just trying to help.
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238mph
Pro
Posts: 1145
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posted December 13, 2005 11:59 PM
Well guys... that did it... I started at 11:30PM and just finished at 1AM so the whole
process of tear down, split the calipers, pull out and clean the pistons, remove the outer
dust ring, reassemble and bleed, 1.5 hours... not too bad.
Now the wheel spins about 2-3 revs before stopping... I feel so much better!!!
Thanks again for the help... and I hope this also helps so of you other guys... Gunner,
I KNOW your 12 is doing this too!!! So get off your ass and get it done...
Some might say... "Oh, no dust seal is bad... " Well, I'd rather have my brakes work right
and need a tear down once a year or whatever vs dragging all the time eating hp and
cooking the pads/rotor...
Bottom line, I'm happy.
Thanks!
Jere
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tuusinii
Pro
Posts: 1031
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posted December 14, 2005 03:02 AM
That isin't really a problem and the brake work slike that. Its because there isin't any spring or anything else that pushes the pads away from the disks. So when You're at stop and have applied the brakes it takes some rotations to the pads to move away from the disks.. Normally when riding this isin't a problem. Of course it's a good habbit of cleaning Your brake system but the changes are You're doing more bad than good if there isin't excessive dragging. And I would never leave the dust covers off like it says on that link.
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Ra12r
Zone Head
Posts: 919
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posted December 14, 2005 05:45 AM
Well, when some dust works its way in and scratches the cylinder walls that causes a leak under pressure and he has NO BRAKES, he will post again about "WHY DID I CRASH"?
This is as good as "Run your bike low on oil for more HP"........ LOL
The real issue with spinning is the lubrication of the bearings and the shaft. Thinner grease or the use of oil addresses the issue. Completely clean out the thick grease and replace with new grease or simply oil. Choice based on use of bike. My wheels spin 5+ times minimum, front and back.
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slug
Pro
Out in search of my mind...
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posted December 14, 2005 06:01 AM
yeh keep those dust seals in. The drag goes away after a short distance without applying the brakes. You want the pads *almost* touching the rotors all the time, otherwise your intial bite will be only half the lever,because the other half is used in getting the pads TO the rotors.
The dust seals and main seals provide enough friction on the pistons to keep them from slopping around and backing off too far. (slopping around is used as a relative term here)
even with full dust seals in place, the pistons will back away from the rotor in a front-wheel shimmy event (tankslapper or whatever you want to call it). I would bet that with only the pressure seals on the pistons would back even further in.... It took 3 lever pulls on the yzf to get the pads touching rotors again. Learned a new braking marker at talladega too
  
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TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
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posted December 14, 2005 06:39 AM
I had a similar problem and cleaned the caliper cylinders as they were
sticking a little. It did help. Will be cleaning them soon again as I will be
installing some wave rotors complements of my bro. Might look at bearings
also. I hear them ceramic ones spin up real nice.
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238mph
Pro
Posts: 1145
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posted December 14, 2005 07:07 AM
Ra you are soooo wrong... If that were the case, I would not have any difference
once I put the calipers back on... I never touched the wheel bearings, and now it spins
good...
Every time I ride I come into the garage, and put the bike up on stands, front and rear...
and I'd notice that the front would not spin for shit... now it's corrected... so Ra instead
of running your mouth as usual, try to learn something. Did it ever occur to that the original
design was poor, too much seal pressure... not enough backdraft on the master???
And backdraft is what pulls the pads back away from the rotors...tuusinii mentioned that
there aren't any springs in the calipers to pull them back... that's right... that's what
backdraft is for... when you let off the brake lever, the master has a point where it pulls
back the fluid to actually suck the pads away from the rotor.. But the design of the master
wasn't really strong enough to overcome 12 pistons with both main seals and dust seals.
Will it take more tear downs without dust seals.... yes. Will it release the pads better and
not glaze the pads and rotor, yes. Will I have better brakes AND more power yes...
Slug, you're right about having to pull several times if they are too far from the rotor... they
aren't... just right... again the backdraft sets that. If they had retrun springs on the calipers
then that would be a problem.
I'm 51, been riding for 35 years... longer than most of you guys are old... so keep your
stupid remarks to yourself... duh
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted December 14, 2005 07:50 AM
OOOOOOooooohhhhhhh!
You should Dyno your bike to see what difference it made.
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TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
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posted December 14, 2005 08:08 AM
Yeah, that should make that dyno spin up real fast.
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gunner
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posted December 14, 2005 09:40 AM
I think it's a quality control issue with the calipers. Kinda one of those you get what you pay for deals. The factory don't put Brembo brakes on these for one simple reason "money"!!! These brakes work and that's all they feel the need to supply us with. If these were top shelf units their race bikes would al have these units. BUT! they are all equipped with Brembo units. Simple reason is HIGHER quality control during manufacturing and better designed.
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slug
Pro
Out in search of my mind...
Posts: 1433
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posted December 14, 2005 11:51 AM
i'm sorry about my stupid comments on keeping hte seals and such, i bow to your superior riding time.
and yes, you've been riding longer than i am alive, so i guess the dust seals are totally useless and serve no purpose. Thanks for clarifying.
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gunner
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posted December 14, 2005 12:14 PM
Edited By: gunner on 14 Dec 2005 12:16
Keep in mind that these bikes are designed to be almost fool proof. The factory don't know what type of guy the end user will be so they Over KILL shit like brakes. Is the guy that buys a particular bike going to ride it in the mud? Is he going to wash and do regular maintenance? Can you get by without the dust seal? YES! you can but you'll have to stay on top of your shit. Jere the next step is to remove a few .000" from the wheel spacers to relieve the pressure from the wheel seals. This isn't something for a guy to do if he's not going to stay on top of the maintenance of his bike. It's no problem for me because my stuff get's inspected and maintained after every ride. For the guys that think putting gas in is all they need to worry about I suggest you leave your shit exactly how the OEM sold it to you. It won't be too hard to spot us other guys we'll be the ones always seeming to have the advantage for some reason. It's because we do 
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238mph
Pro
Posts: 1145
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posted December 14, 2005 12:16 PM
Sure the seals will prevent having to do maintenance more than every five years...
Ah, we could enclose the chain too... and run it in a bath of oil... or better yet, toss in a
driveshaft...
Good God, did you guys ever hear about doing some maintenance???
So I have to do a bit of maintenance to get superior brakes...  so what???
I guess most of you "real riders" just take your bike to the dealer anyway... hahahahahha
Never mind, you guys don't get it... next...
Gunner, do these guys PRACTICE being dicks... or does it just come natural for them??? 
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238mph
Pro
Posts: 1145
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posted December 14, 2005 12:19 PM
Hey, Gunner, I already did the trick of turning down the spacers so the seals just touch
by a few thousandths... Damn, you know once of my tricks!!!
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gunner
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posted December 14, 2005 12:36 PM
Jere should I mention the Free Power trapped in your oil filter?
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gunner
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Posts: 5778
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posted December 14, 2005 12:38 PM
Hell mine don't touch! They're there for decoration only
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
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posted December 14, 2005 12:53 PM
Brakes just slow you down...ditchem.
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TRNorBRN6001
Needs a job
Posts: 2021
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posted December 14, 2005 01:38 PM
maintenance, yeah I wash the bike with that polish spray once every
three months. might as well spray a little on them rotors, that'll get that
tire a moven. Extra 5hp on da dyno to
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slug
Pro
Out in search of my mind...
Posts: 1433
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posted December 14, 2005 03:09 PM
Edited By: slug on 14 Dec 2005 15:23
Nah, the dick came out before i replied with sarcasm, it was yours....
sorry if i applied a sledge hammer to it. Maybe next time you'll keep your zipper closed and dick safely housed. That way your over-sensitive 'can't take the sarcasm even if i dish it' foreskin won't get bruised again....
i understand doing maintenance more often for performance gains, but i really don't see any gains to be had in a street environment from that miniscule bit of drag that you just 'lost' by dropping the dust seals. But if needing new caliper bodies every other riding season is worth it to you for that slightly reduce little bit of friction when the wheel is on the stand, fine.
Remember, at road speed the air flow across the rotors and BETWEEN the rotor and pad keeps them cool(and seperate). Even WITH the dust seals in place......
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238mph
Pro
Posts: 1145
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posted December 14, 2005 04:38 PM
All the little stuff I do is what allows me to run consistent 9.37s at the drags and smack
down busas... that's all
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Pilot Powers took me to the grave, and brought me back...
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