dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted November 29, 2005 10:16 PM
No pardon necessary Supra, my question was rhetorical, not directed at you. You probably have no idea how much this topic dominated these pages 4-5 years ago. It's a sensiitive subject around here with some of us. Didn't mean to rag on you...
D.
  
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trenace
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posted November 29, 2005 10:45 PM
 Edited By: trenace on 29 Nov 2005 22:54
Doug, you may have been replying to my reply also -- I was discussing the hypothetical that some entertain, never stating it was a fact. I was saying even if one accepts that theory, it appears very implausible that there could have been anything but timing involved or some minor aero change like mirrors (however it's hard for me to credit that compared to say the B-model mirrors there is any great difference, might not even be over 1 mph, and so aren't that much of a possibility either.) That is not to say that the hypothesis is even right at all.
However, it also does not seem necessarily impossible that there could have been a decision to avoid aggravating the EU with "too much speed" even for the 2000 model. No one except a few at Kawasaki that aren't talking will ever know for sure. But I think we do know reasonably for sure that just about every theory that's been thrown out there for "slow-down mods" does not make sense. Personally I think it more likely that there was nothing to any delay but a normal delay. But since not every reader agrees, I was discussing that even the alternate possibility has, it seems, little to it.
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zxfingyz
Expert Class
Posts: 424
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posted November 30, 2005 10:12 AM
In all seriousness, what is the difference between a good rider on a top speed run and a not as good rider. What does a good rider do that makes a difference?
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dougmeyer
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posted November 30, 2005 02:46 PM
Body position is everything. Your body makes up quite a large percentage of the "wetted area" of the aero shape. What you think might be the fastest may not be. There was a time, in the early 80's when those of us that ran Bonneville (and therefore were out of sight when at top speed) and were the only ones going "that fast" would never disclose our riding stance. It's less important now, because there's so much more power to work with and the word pretty much got around on how to sit.
D.
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eastbaydave
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Posts: 2245
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posted December 01, 2005 07:21 AM
quote:
because there's so much more power to work with and the word pretty much got around on how to sit.
D.
& how do they sit? I hear butt haunched up in the air/sitting as far back as possible?
Is that correct?
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Enjoy the ride!
02' ZRX1200
00' ZX12R sold
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zxfingyz
Expert Class
Posts: 424
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posted December 01, 2005 08:14 AM
Edited By: zxfingyz on 1 Dec 2005 08:17
In order to be tucked under the windshield as much as possible? I read where sometimes they don't even look for most of the run. Just lay the helmet on the tank sideways. Is that true?
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VincentHill
Needs a life
Posts: 6520
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posted December 01, 2005 08:51 AM
Edited By: VincentHill on 1 Dec 2005 08:52
quote:
In order to be tucked under the windshield as much as possible? I read where sometimes they don't even look for most of the run. Just lay the helmet on the tank sideways. Is that true?
That is how DaveO hit a cone at Maxton and tore up the left side of his bike while just watching the Line go by. I will never hat Balls that big at Maxton for sure. (Maybe At a place like Texas!!)
Ever watch Rossi with the Camera mounted behind him how he is sitting on the top edge of the rear of the seat on the straights??
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
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dougmeyer
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posted December 01, 2005 09:05 AM
Well, it depends on the bike. You have to "adapt". I am not ready spill it yet. I will say this, in my opinion you can't find the best position anywhere but The Salt. You just need that minute and a half with the bike going as fast as it will go to find it. On the street or in a mile you never know if you're in the right place. If you find it, you can watch the tach climb. You can repeat that on the next run until you're sure. You don't have time to search for it in 30 sec. and you have to get comfortable moving around at 190+. The correct seating is worth a couple mph, no BS. and when records are broken by thousanths it's a big deal.
The best guys to watch were the 250 GP riders. They figured it out. As a matter of fact , Rich Oliver and I more than one discussion about low drag riding positions.
D.
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OutsiderZX12R
Zone Head
Street Racer
Posts: 841
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posted December 01, 2005 11:06 PM
I would like to know the difference between the "pre production" ZX12R that Rickey Gadson rode at Gainsville in fall 1999 to the production model. Rickey Gadson himself could not duplicate the numbers he did at Gainsville when he tested the production bike for Cycle World in early 2000. Location could be some of it, but there seemed to be a lot of performance that was MIA....
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OutsiderZX12R
2000 ZX12R-A1
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trenace
Needs a job
Posts: 3056
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posted December 02, 2005 01:07 AM
Edited By: trenace on 2 Dec 2005 07:50
It could have been a significantly different bike -- could have had different cams and/or cam timing, different compression ratio, differerent ignition timing, different exhaust, different intake ports, etc. The final product, as also with a roadracing bike, is a compromise between top end power and low end performance as well as overall smoothness of delivery. Exactly where to tweak that balance is something that can still be being worked on between pre-production and production. So it could be that that pre-production bike was more of an "animal" on top most likely at sacrifice down low, unless the difference was half a point of compression or something, in which case there wouldn't have been a sacrifice except to ability to tolerate poorer gas and to some extent probably longevity.
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psycho1122
Pro
Posts: 1608
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posted December 02, 2005 05:23 AM
quote:
Keep in mind that if a well ridden  bike went 192 in terrible air in .9 mile it would take 13% more power to go 200 in that same air and distance. And that the simple addition of a well designed, less restrictive exhaust nearly made that happen, yielding 199mph.
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You say PSYCHO like it's a BAD thing!!
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zxfingyz
Expert Class
Posts: 424
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posted December 02, 2005 08:08 AM
Is there a dramatic difference in the 12 and 14 front ends fairing? Could that be responsible for increase in top speed? I keep seeing that quote from someone where they were referencing a KMC tech talking about how they slowed the bike down and he said " you are looking at it...." like it was in plain sight.
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supra5677
Pro
Posts: 1279
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posted December 02, 2005 09:04 AM
How can you run a 9.52@ 147mph and then a few months later run a 9.89 @142 with the exact same set up? Same rider.. I think someone should ask Rickey Gadson.. Maybe the clutch was different.. But that is a big disparity..
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OutsiderZX12R
Zone Head
Street Racer
Posts: 841
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posted December 02, 2005 04:29 PM
quote:
How can you run a 9.52@ 147mph and then a few months later run a 9.89 @142 with the exact same set up? Same rider.. I think someone should ask Rickey Gadson.. Maybe the clutch was different.. But that is a big disparity..
My point exactly. 
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OutsiderZX12R
2000 ZX12R-A1
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CrotchRocket
Moderator
Bracket Racing with Betsy
Posts: 8038
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posted December 02, 2005 07:50 PM
That sure can happen...You need to post what DragStrip each run was ran at, the temp and what the humidity was !!!
I would say that the 9.52 @ 147 was run at a sea level DragStrip...The 9.89 @ 142, high in the mountains some where???
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Jason Miller StreetBike Seminars
*****DragRacers do it better, because they dont cut Corners*****
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