TeamSpeed
Expert Class
Posts: 449
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posted March 12, 2002 07:41 AM
Digital A/F LCD display on EBAY...
Has anyone purchased one of these from this ebayer? It looks like a great solution for a bike. I was going to build an LED one, but this would be more precise...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1812023753&r=0&t=0
  
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redelk
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Posts: 3212
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posted March 12, 2002 02:30 PM
Why bother building one?
New England Dyno has one that's smaller then a Zippo lighter, has a green back light, hooks up to an O2 sensor in just a few minutes and cost $99. I have one and it's far more accurate the the Auto Meter or that other one with 10 or 30 LEDs on it.
I can e-mail ya a pic of it or you can just go to their site.
http://www.nedyno.com
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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TeamSpeed
Expert Class
Posts: 449
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posted March 12, 2002 04:04 PM
Thanks, man! That is great, especially the "faster red" display, and they are only $75. That looks like what I would need to complete my PC3r installation!
Man, this board rocks!
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redelk
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posted March 12, 2002 04:21 PM
Double check that "red" light
I'm not sure, but I think the red lighted one is with the numbers actually being the "lighted" part (LED?). The green lighted one is a LCD with a green back light. Some feel the red "LED" is hard to read in direct sun light. Just thought you might want to be sure that's the one you want.
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There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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ruready
Parking Attendant
Posts: 20
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posted March 21, 2002 07:57 AM
Redelk,
You have the one the has the back lite screen, no problems so far?? Trying to decide between the digital display and the graph type, any input from owners of either??? Also what kind of sensor are you using?? I hope to have a bung welded into my yosh pipe soon.
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redelk
Moderator
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posted March 21, 2002 09:27 AM
No problems, so far
It's SUPER EASY to read at anytime of day or night. Even with the sun shining directly on it. The display is velcro'ed on the triple clamp, directly below the ignition switch.
The O2 sensor is just your "standard" FOUR wire automotive sensor. I HIGHLY recommend using the 4 wire because it is self heating. By the time you've warmed up your bike and pull out, the sensor is already at it's correct reading temp. If you used a sensor that's not self heating, you'd have to make so serious high RPM runs just to heat it up.
I can just turn on my ignition (not starting the bike) and I can watch it heat up. The gauge will start to rise up to about .130v and then drop back down. With the engine off, it takes about 2~4 minutes to heat up. With the engine running, like I said earlier, it'll be heated up and reading accuratly before the bike itself is warmed up.
If my attempts to stop the gray smoke work, the digital gauge will have been a great tool in helping me monitor my adjustments of the A/F ratios.
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
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posted March 21, 2002 12:07 PM
I've used both types of meters for reading O2 volts. I prefer the Halmeter AF-30 over a digital readout.
One because when you are tuning while riding its MUCH easier to see whats going on. You dont really even have to look at it directly.
But the real reason is because you need different resolutions FOR different voltage ranges when reading O2 volts.
The o2 sensor output isnt linear. There is an output range near 14.7vdc that needs much higher resolution to be meaningful.
In otherwords the difference between .60and .61 volts isnt nearly the same a/f ratio change as .80 and .81 volts. And the same for .90 and .91
Yes, a quality digital meter is more accurate at giving an absolute voltage reading, but thats not really what your looking for.
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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redelk
Moderator
Please... speak to the hand.
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posted March 21, 2002 12:33 PM
This is what I've been looking for!
Y2K.... HELP! What the hell AM I LOOKING FOR?
Since a digital gauge jumps all over the place and is extremely sensitive to throttle position, is it a worthless piece of shit or is there some way I can effectively use it for tuning? In a e-mail, I made these comments about the various halmeters...
THE BAD
1. The reading will jump all over the place.
2. Very sensitive to throttle position
3. Numbers are SLIGHTLY harder to read at a glance when compared to "graph" type gauges
THE GOOD
1. Cheaper then just about anything else out there.
2. VERY compact. The AutoMeter is a full size (2" dia.) automotive gauge and the AF30 is about the size of a pack of cigarettes.
3. EXTREMELY accurate. You know EXACTLY what the A/F ratio is. Even with the 30 LEDs on the AF30, it's still a "in the range" guess.
4. Easy to hook up.
I've only been on about 3 rides since I've installed it. Like most say, it's at it's most accurate at WFO. In my attempts to solve the smoking problem, it's acting and reading completely different then it has in the past.
I have a copy of the instructions for the AF30. On page 2, it says,
"On factory fuel injected engines, under cruise conditions, the lit LED will cycle between the red and green bands. This indicates that the ECU is constantly adjusting the mixture from rich to lean in order to average at "Lambda" or stoichiometric. The chemically correct ratio for complete combustion.
At wide open throttle, lights will travel into the green band if the mixture is correct."
Since I'm kinda "stuck" with what I got, Is there a "practical" way to use it? Since the AF30 "bounces around" too, how does one figure out the A/F ratios in the midrange (i.e. on a DJ 250 run)? Is it really just a guess with the digital or AF30?
In other words, what the hell am I looking at?
____________
There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games.
-Ernest Hemingway
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Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
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posted March 21, 2002 06:11 PM
I find it accurate and responsive. It will move around a bit untill you get the map tweaked.
I think they are refering to a closed loop system making mixture changes on the fly. Somthing this bike doesnt do, yet. And I stress "yet". I think the whole U.S. is going to adopt CA epa standards. This will finally give us a closed loop system to tweak!
Back to the meter... it works well. I'm making an addon unit for it, to monitor the TPS. It will have a color for each tps in the fuel map. Several people have asked for one so I might make a batch.
So ideally you can have the camcorder filming the dash.
Go home and fix your map. Reload and film again.
You wont crash trying to read everything.
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TeamSpeed
Expert Class
Posts: 449
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posted March 22, 2002 04:21 AM
That is a great idea. If you could create a little black box that would store the O2 reading, the TPS, and the tach, and store it in memory, then allow for download, you would have a great little device.
Another idea. Alot of us have PocketPCs, and the SDK from Microsoft is free. If the black box could just relay values thru the serial port of the PDA, and write the software on the PDA to store the values to a csv file (Excel), this might even be easier to do.
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Y2KZX12R
Needs a job
CompetitionCNC.com
Posts: 3762
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posted March 22, 2002 06:50 AM
 Edited By: Y2KZX12R on 22 Mar 2002 06:51
Team, that would be ideal!
But I just dont have the time or background to make a device like that.
I tried to adapt an economical data loging chipset for auto-maping. It got too cost prohibitive and needed some software to be written. It would have been very time consuming and I didnt have the time needed to fully develop it. Some of our hardware/software engineers here offered to help, but it was more complex than I really needed.
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Y2KZX12R
CompetitionCNC.com
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