posted October 14, 2005 09:29 PM
Need your troubleshooting help with the 12... The 12 is back in the dealer and they are dumbfounded. Granted, they are still working through their list of troubleshooting techniques, so when they call Kawi to see if they can figure it out, they can say they have tried certain things. Please help if you know the problem here.
When the 12's motor is warm and at normal running temperatures, it idles and drives smoothly.
When the 12's motor is cold, it has SEVERE idling issues.
These problems occur ONLY when the motor is cold: Basically the fast idle lever does not work, it does not make any difference in the engine's idle. The idle dial on the left side below the seat that controls the idle does not make a difference here either.
You press the starter button and it just will not start up. You have to just keep giving it gas at the throttle to finally get it to start after MANY MANY failed attempts (talk about being hard on the started!). When it does finally start, the engine idle speed catapults immediately to 4000rpm and starts to decrease slowly. As soon as the tach is down to 2000rpm's, it falls immediately to below 0 and the engine dies again.
If you use the idle adjustor to crank the idle up higher once the motor is idling at 4000rpm's, you can decrease the idle using the dial to try to bring it back down, but as soon as it gets down to 2000rpm's, then it just dies again.
If you leave the dial alone and can get the engine to idle at 4000rpm's, whenever you engage the clutch, the engine once again just dies to 0.
Of course as you are trying all of this and working through it, the engine does eventually start to get warmer and the problem starts to go away little by little. Once the engine is running at normal temps, the problem goes away.
We let the 12 sit for a good 8 hours to go cold again, and then start it up - and the problem is back to Step 1.
The dealer is having a helluva time trying to troubleshoot the problem because it begins to go away as the engine gets warmer, so they have to wait for it to get cold again.
The checked the ECU and there is no stored error codes. All electrical test seem to be fine.
They thought it might be the fuel pump, the fuel sensor, or the throttle bodies, but that does not explain why the problem starts to clear up as the engine gets warmer. If any of those things were faulty, they would be faulty at all temps
posted October 14, 2005 10:08 PM
I think maybe something in the throttle bodies???? Or maybe a temp sensor, but you would think it would at least start up and just run rough. Good luck Im sure some folks here will help. Keep us posted.
posted October 14, 2005 11:10 PM
Edited By: OutsiderZX12R on 15 Oct 2005 00:11
There is a temp sender on the back of the cylinder block in the vacinity of cylinders 1 and 2 that caused the hard start problem on mine. It turned out to be the fact that I didn't have it plugged in all the way.
Is you FI light on? Mine was when I had this problem.
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OutsiderZX12R
2000 ZX12R-A1
Needs a life
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Posts: 7981
posted October 15, 2005 05:52 AM
sounds like a leak somewhere.....when it gets warm if there is a little leak it may seal up due to expansion of the parts....stupid question, are the throttle bodies mounted correctly?
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When in doubt, lean farther and go faster....
posted October 15, 2005 06:33 AM
Make sure the TPS wiring is not plugged into the map sensor. These two plugs will interchange. The plug for the TPS is black and the one for the sensor is gray. They will reach each other and this is very common with our race cars. Some times it fries that map sensor also. The map sensor is the same as the one on the tail section, so you can swap them out and try that. Call me if you need me to walk you through what I am saying.
posted October 15, 2005 06:44 AM
sure sounds like an intake air leak to me....?
that high-idle right off the bat is the indicator!
Probably got an air leak someplace in the throttle body area/maybe they are not seated all the way as previously mentioned, or vacuum line/other air leak. Line hooked up wrong (to wrong spigot), or something like that? I'm guessing here...
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Enjoy the ride!
02' ZRX1200
00' ZX12R sold
posted October 15, 2005 10:06 AM
I would say that the resistance in the tps sensor at cold temps is off. so it might think that engine is to cold and what happens it tries to compensate with more fuel, creating a rich mixture. But you would think that dealer should know to check for that first or would they?
posted October 15, 2005 12:26 PM
I agree with the AIr Leak Vote or a simple Vacuum line not connected. There are a Lot of Hoses that need to be connected "Correctly" and shop Jerks do not work on enough 12's to either remember or know how they all hook up once they see everything hooked up. I would suggest taking your digital camera and take pictures on both sides of the Throttle Bodies and posting Large Pictures but only 2 or 3 of them so we can all carefully look. They may even have the Pressure sensor hooked to a Vacuum line on the left side
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
posted October 15, 2005 04:55 PM
vacuum line off the top of the TB,
bet its the one to the map sensor.
when you get it running smooth spray starter fluid around the vacuum lines one at a time
the engine rpms will rise quickly when it fill the leak.
posted October 15, 2005 05:12 PM
What ninja 12 said... spray the fluid around the hoses... if it has a leak, it will suck in
the spray, and the motor will rev higher... simply way to find any raw air sneaking into
the motor...
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Pilot Powers took me to the grave, and brought me back...
posted October 16, 2005 11:12 AM
Keep it simple Beans,it sounds like a vacuum leak...Spray carburetor cleaner near any vacuum hoses and connections.Make sure it has the spray nozzle red thing connected so you can be more precise locating the leak...once the carb spray is sprayed near the leak the rpm's will shoot up...try it.
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Orient Express Top Street Bike Winner 8-4-07
posted October 16, 2005 12:51 PM
Mine had the same symptoms. The choke lever had no effect period. Would not idle unless above 2500 rpms. Turned out that mine was lean. A vaccume hose could definitely cause that problem. But, mine needed a map installed in my PC3. For what ever reason, the map was missing. As soon as I installed my map, idled like stock even with my cams degreed.
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All must bow to the "Ra Supremecy"...
quote:I'd say there's a 100% chance of dealer mechanic error.
Understatement.
I would also say that there is a 100% chance that the person that worked on his bike was Waay over his head on this one and no one was supervising him / her during the installation
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Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
posted October 18, 2005 10:46 AM
Dealer just opened back up for business today from the long weekend, I was gonna print this thread up and go in there.
posted October 18, 2005 10:57 AM
two sided coin.
1. give them a chance to finish/fix what they started.
2. do you want goober to finish killing you bike.
Make sure Kawi customer service knows what's going on.
Document everything just it case the spit and bubble gum comes loose
AFTER your 30 days. or whatever warranty.
quote:two sided coin.
1. give them a chance to finish/fix what they started.
2. do you want goober to finish killing you bike.
Make sure Kawi customer service knows what's going on.
Document everything just it case the spit and bubble gum comes loose
AFTER your 30 days. or whatever warranty.
Good Luck! Sounds like you are going to need it!
SOme of the Best advice I have seen here!! ____________
Made History @ Daytona and still one fast old man!!
posted October 21, 2005 04:57 PM
Dealer ordered an ECU, said everything in the motorcycle is perfect. It should be here Tuesday - I'll find out then if that resolves the problem.
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posted October 14, 2005 09:29 PM
posted October 14, 2005 10:08 PM
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