238mph
Pro
Posts: 1145
|
posted September 07, 2005 08:16 AM
? for Gunner, and others on susp setup
I'm asking Gunner specifically, simply because I know he knows his stuff but it's open
to anyone else too... I just haven't learned who the experts are here yet... so no offense
ok??? (Tren, please jump in too)
Gunner.... When I bought my 12, an '02 I put lowering bones in the rear as I was mostly
into draging the bike, and I wanted to come out of the hole real good. But I've always
liked cornering hard through the twisties too...
I'm 5'10" 210lbs, pretty strong upper body... and I've always had to muscle the 12 through
the turns etc. In the current setup, it doesn't seem light and "flickable" although I drag
my knee and run with the faster guys here on the mountain....
I think I can do even better now that I'm running ther Pilot Powers, but I need help on
setting up the bike's suspension. I've never bothered to do anything to that except lower
the rear way down... I do run everything as far as dampening on FULL SOFT...
I'm not really complaining, but I wonder if I could get a lot more out of the 12 by raising
the rear and doing a few other things... any suggestions???
If you tell me I'll only get another 3% out of it, I'll leave it the way it is... I'm use to it and can
do pretty well... and I can get a mean hole shot without a wheelie.
Or, should I just buy a 10r for cornering and save the 12 for hunting in town????
Thanks
Jere
____________
Pilot Powers took me to the grave, and brought me back...
   
|
vozizm
Needs a job
Got Nothing Witty To Say
Posts: 4417
|
posted September 07, 2005 10:39 AM
Loose some weight ya fat arse fugger....
Tb has always said to change your fork springs and or fluid... something about they are set up for a 165lb rider...you and I are well over that limit,,,, and lord when my fat ass wife gets on.... 
____________
VOZ
|
gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
|
posted September 07, 2005 10:55 AM
Honestly Jere. I have to climb all over the 12 to get it bent around corners. As you already know going fast on the 12 can be done, but it takes a lot of skills. It sounds like you do about the same as I do. I feel like if I could see myself riding I would look like a DAMN MONKEY CLIMBING A BANANNA TREE. Ya know it's all relevant to what you learned on and where you come from. You and me learned on Z1s and Shit like that. Hell compared to that shit the 12 rides itself. Some of these younger guys don't have a clue what bad really is. You and I are close in weight and height so I will be glad to tell you were my shit is set. I've toyed with the idea of spending a load of cash on forks and shocks for the 12, and at the same time I think buy a 10 would be the smart thing to do. I've watch Ted G on this site tell about the 10 vs the 12 all summer and he seems like a wise guy to listen to. He loves the 12 and had reservations about the switch to the 10R. He now seems like the switch waqs a wise one.
I just put a set of Heli Bars on and I'm a little upset that they hinder my ability to get into my cornering position. Comfort is better but now my elbows are up too high to get my upper body on the tank top like it needs to be for max weight positioning. The 12 seems more upset than a lot of other bikes if you have your body out of position in the corners.
I'm sure several of these other guys have a lot more knowledge than me on the 12 set up. I do believe Pastor Elk has spent many of hours on the 12 and I'm sure I'm not even scratching the surface on who has the knowledge. I'm still too new on this board to know who is who. What I have always been told is that the shock is junk and all you can do is compensate for it. It really gets back to a question of spend what a 10 cost to get the 12 close to the 10, or just buy a 10 and be done with it. 2 bikes are always worth more than one that's had a mint spent on it. Ask Mark Day I'm sure he'll agree.
____________
There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
|
238mph
Pro
Posts: 1145
|
posted September 07, 2005 11:08 AM
I love the Helibars i added...(the current version) added amybe an inch and a half, and
saves my wrists... I don't have a problem with them at all...
I wonder if I raise the rear again if it will make the bike turn better...
The roads I ride on are so smooth, the bike doesn't get upset at all, so shocks and
springs would be a waste of time I think... I'm more interested if I should reduce the rake
by raising the rear and setting sag..
Now I know you're gonna say..."Well try it.." 
I'd have to buy another kickstand, as mine was shortened almost 3 inches and it's a
pain to raise the rear... just for a "try"
I hope Tren chimes in here too... maybe he might know from a techie point vs us
seat of the pants old timers...
I'm gonna go sit on a 10 again...
|
gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
|
posted September 07, 2005 11:24 AM
Raise it back up for sure. I have my forks slid up about 1/2" as well. On the Heli's I even have the 1st gen bars and found that they have me out of position. It's not that I can't get into position it's just with the stock bars you're almost already there. It's an adjustment that I'll make because of the added comfort. I couldn't bring myself to use the Corbin though. It's a ton more comfort but turns my 12 into a Harley Ultra as far as cornering is concerned. Funny thing is I have several friends that ride Ultras and it so funny to hear them complain about their sore ASS when we go out for a 300 plus mile ride. I just look at them like they're from Mars and shake my head. What a bunch of Puzzies.
____________
There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
|
238mph
Pro
Posts: 1145
|
posted September 07, 2005 12:00 PM
 Edited By: 238mph on 7 Sep 2005 13:08
Hell Gunner, my ass is never on the seat when I ride anyway!!! I'm hanging off to keep
my tread patch big...
Raise it up huh??? I think I'll work on that today.... or maybe I'll lower the front.
I wonder, does having a much HIGHER CG allow a bike to corner better???
|
vozizm
Needs a job
Got Nothing Witty To Say
Posts: 4417
|
posted September 07, 2005 12:11 PM
get ya self an adjustable kickstand sir...
____________
VOZ
|
gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
|
posted September 07, 2005 12:11 PM
Sounds like we have much the same style and the same idea for adopting that style. I think I said the 12 has the power to stripe the road like it's in the rain anytime you whack the gas. So with that in mind I ride it like I'm in the wet and hang off to keep the patch large as possible. Personally I kinda like being an old man wiff a so called outdated bike. We sort of belong together I guess.
____________
There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
|
238mph
Pro
Posts: 1145
|
posted September 07, 2005 12:21 PM
Yeah, I like to freek people out by hanging off and then smoking the rear out of the turn
just to get a reaction... by having it lowered, I don't wheelie as much, so I can get away
with some real old school hooligan stuff... but now with those Pilot Powers, I don't
think that's going to happen anymore... sticky mother fuckers will completely change
the way I ride... Remember Chen Chengs???? hard ass tires you could melt down
all day long... hahahahaha
|
gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
|
posted September 07, 2005 12:31 PM
Yea I damn sure do remember the name. I never had a set of them on anything other than a dirtbike. Back in the day and this is long ago. When I first purchased my 83 ZX1100A1 better know as the GPz1100 1983. Most people don't know that the GPz was the first ZX. Anyway it was said to handle like a surgens blade. Hell for the time it did, but I use to flat track the ass end all the time with that long ass boat. It was nearly 61" wheelbase, and as we all know tires back then weren't very good at all.
Yea Jere those powers will change a lot of things for you. Now you can see what the 12 really can do. I think you'll fall in love with the ol girl all over again. It will be like you're pretty girl just learned how to give good head!!!!!!!!!!! Why get rid of her now??????? after you suffered thru all that teeth draggin and shit. 
____________
There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
|
blueford
Needs a job
Posts: 2984
|
posted September 07, 2005 03:39 PM
Cornering is suspension setup, tires, and believe it or not Atenolol, yes drugs, the prescription variety for high blood pressure.
Makes a huge difference with me. They're beta-blockers, suppresses the central nervous system, no more physiological responses to deal with while riding fast.
They are highly recommended, pro golfers use them to keep from getting the yips standing over a $50,000 putt!
|
238mph
Pro
Posts: 1145
|
posted September 07, 2005 06:58 PM
Ok, I raised the rear end up to stock settings... HOLY CRAP thing looks all JACKED UP
like we used to do in high school, trying to look bad ass...
I HATE the look... all I can say is that if it doesn't friggin blow me away in the corner
dept, that baby is coming back down right away!!!! I don't need a nose bleed up there...
and trying to touch the toes when stopping??? what's that all about???
|
238mph
Pro
Posts: 1145
|
posted September 07, 2005 07:00 PM
Pitch black on the mountain right now... sure do what to try this... I can just see me
crashing out in the darkness... nope, not gonna go...
Well maybe if I go slow...
Ah hell...
|
scooter trash
Expert Class
Posts: 407
|
posted September 07, 2005 07:07 PM
Have you adjusted the sag?
First step bro. ;-)
|
238mph
Pro
Posts: 1145
|
posted September 07, 2005 07:10 PM
quote:
Have you adjusted the sag?
First step bro. ;-)
Nope, no clue... is that how much it comes down when I sit on it??? Same as a dirt bike?
If so, how much should I have???
|
trenace
Needs a job
Posts: 3056
|
posted September 07, 2005 07:15 PM
Edited By: trenace on 7 Sep 2005 20:17
About 30 or 35 mm, as the difference between completely unloaded and when you sit on it.
|
238mph
Pro
Posts: 1145
|
posted September 07, 2005 07:17 PM
Great, I'm pushing it out the door, and now you want me to check sag????
|
238mph
Pro
Posts: 1145
|
posted September 07, 2005 07:20 PM
quote:
About 30 or 35 mm, as the difference between completely unloaded and when you sit on it.
Come on... in inches, so I don't have to look up the conversion...
|
scooter trash
Expert Class
Posts: 407
|
posted September 07, 2005 07:23 PM
Frame unsprung vs. compressed (with you) loaded.
Lotsa talk going on here (Blueford - your mama should have aborted you. Really).
Didn't mean to hijack your thread bro. LOL
|
trenace
Needs a job
Posts: 3056
|
posted September 07, 2005 07:30 PM
1.2" to 1.4 or 1.5". Or call it around an inch-and-a-quarter.
|
scooter trash
Expert Class
Posts: 407
|
posted September 07, 2005 07:34 PM
Edited By: scooter trash on 8 Sep 2005 16:05
Edit: removed stupid and incorrect post.
|
trenace
Needs a job
Posts: 3056
|
posted September 07, 2005 07:38 PM
Edited By: trenace on 7 Sep 2005 20:44
I wasn't assuming any of those... no doubt there are given bikes that that would be wrong, e.g. some chopper with 1 inch of rear travel or something, but I have aimed for that range basically forever and never been dissatisfied... I have also seen it commonly recommended though sometimes you see 40 mm as a high end...
Do you suggest something different?
I certainly didn't know that different tire sizes call for different sag....
Anyhow, how in the world is he supposed to check it if you tell him to check it but will not give him a figure, and the range anyone suggests, you throw out? He is screwed! He might as well give up riding now!!!
Anyhow it's simple enough, say you set it at 35 mm and you think that is too soft, then move it to say 30... whereas on the other hand if it's already 30 and you think it is too soft then more likely you ought to be looking at a different (stiffer) spring.
The point wouldn't be to recommend setting to 20 or whatever... maybe if the spring is too weak it could have to be done as an emergency expediency but one recommends setting to what should be correct, that way if the spring is wrong it can be picked up on. (Static sag can also help pick up on that though I have never really gotten that.. unless you ride the bike without you on it, what is the big importance to what it does without you on it? Maybe as an objective means of confirming or seeing a need to think twice about a riding opinion that the spring is too hard or too soft, though.)
|
238mph
Pro
Posts: 1145
|
posted September 07, 2005 07:57 PM
Ok, it seems to me that the point of sag is also to get the shock somewhere in the
middle of the working range of the shock itself... so it doesn't bottom out etc....
After all, I just raised the rear end like 3 inches by going back to the stock bones setting...
So that makes a huge diference... wouldn't sag just be the last 2-3%...????
|
trenace
Needs a job
Posts: 3056
|
posted September 07, 2005 08:01 PM
Edited By: trenace on 7 Sep 2005 21:02
It is hard to quantitate such things but substantially too little or too much preload makes a pretty big difference in handling.
However, if you're talking about, your sag presently is say 38 or 40 mm and you're adjusting it to 35 mm, then perhaps calling that a "three percent difference" relative to your ride height change probably is about fair.
But if it was say 20 or 50 mm, then it's a quite important improvement to get it where it should be.
|
gunner
Needs a life
Posts: 5778
|
posted September 07, 2005 08:01 PM
Who youall calling a Fag????????? OH! you said sag, Nevermind
____________
There's no such thing as a motor with no more power to give only people with no more intelligence to get it
|
|
|
HOME
NEW TOPIC