NOX
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posted June 23, 2005 04:55 AM
Brock Davidson ZX12 Sidewinders are in!
Just saw the press release on dragbike.com.
Cant wait to get mine!!!!! If you havent seen the dyno charts on em, they put out some serious power........
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osti33
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posted June 23, 2005 09:43 AM
Why not post the dyno chart if you have one?? That way we can see it rather than just take your word for it.
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osti33
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posted June 23, 2005 09:59 AM
Found it.
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NOX
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posted June 23, 2005 02:26 PM
cause I suck at posting stuff and always mess it up, thanks ....
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rac4it
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Bergie
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posted June 23, 2005 03:40 PM
 Edited By: rac4it on 24 Jun 2005 07:41
The green dyno run labeled "Mike.001" is dated 7-14-2003 and is not the same bike as the other two runs listed dated Jan 2005 (which are a completely different name in the dyno computer), so it's misleading to say they picked up +27rwhp over a baseline stock with just a sidewinder?
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osti33
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posted June 23, 2005 05:02 PM
quote:
The green dyno run labeled "Mike.001" is dated 7-14-2003 and is not the same bike as the other two runs listed dated Jan 2005 (which are a completely different name in the dyno computer), so it's misleading to say the least! Do people really believe they picked up +27rwhp over a baseline stock with just a sidewinder? What a total con!!
I suppose some shops will do anything to sell a product, including mislead people on performance gains with bogus "dyno" comparisons! That's right I said it!
Ha! That's funny. I didn't even notice. I'm not in the market for a sidewinder but that would make me think twice about buying one.
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your car is slow
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Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
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posted June 23, 2005 05:02 PM
hehe...pipe plus a 1270kit perhaps 
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k bryant
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posted June 23, 2005 05:09 PM
Hmm..... Plus the reading is taken on "STD", which can show 3 - 5 hp higher than the normally accepted standard "SAE" reading. We can only hope there may be a crediable response or more detailed explanation of the items in question that you so noted.
Also, it's always nice to have the notes indicated in full when doing full system tests. That way you can see all the changes (PC3, MR9, etc.). Of course notes don't mean anything without credible back-up, since you can manipulate them anyway you want..... I would hope people may be smart enough to question a 27 hp increase on anything with just an exhaust change....
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NOX
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posted June 23, 2005 06:17 PM
the bike had vp fuel in it, MR9, which will add about 10 to 12 hp to a zx12, and the bike had no air filters in it. VP U4 added about 8 to 9 hp to my zx12, with no map change. The pipe was also tested on a big bore motor in texas, I think it was entropy's bike, not for sure, but it was on Johnny Cheese's dyno, and he said it made some great power. We all know how much power brocks street smart systems make on all bikes, so look at the power curve comparison between those two on the chart, this sidewinder makes hp
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rac4it
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Bergie
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posted June 23, 2005 06:50 PM
Edited By: rac4it on 24 Jun 2005 07:43
I didn't say the Brock SW doesn't make power, I'm sure it does. However I doubt it will make +27rwhp over a baseline stock 2003 ZX12R as that dyno chart implies!
If they wanted a true comparison, DELETE THE GREEN LINE from the chart. Compare only the two pipes on the same bike dyno'd back to back. That's about what, 7hp?
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rac4it
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Bergie
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posted June 23, 2005 06:54 PM
Edited By: rac4it on 24 Jun 2005 07:46
From the notation on the dyno chart it appears that 12 additional runs were made to get that 7hp with the sidewinder, was tuning involved?
I wonder what would have happened if they made those same additional 12 tuning pulls on the standard pipe? Interestingly enough +7rwhp is about what is gained when using MR9.
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NOX
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posted June 23, 2005 06:56 PM
That was 7 over the Gen III street smart system. if the first run was done with pump gas, then the 27 hp is attainable. Yes, he should have posted a comparo with a stock bike. I am going to try to get mine dynoed when I get mine, I will post then, It will be in humid AR, in the HEAT, so numbers will be real. WIll be end of July when I get to do it.
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k bryant
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posted June 23, 2005 08:27 PM
From a Fuel standpoint, you may remember the testing we did on VP Ultimate 4 & MR9 (noted below) back in July of 2003.
rac4it - you are correct in that in "most" cases, MR9 is worth just over 7 hp. Ultimate 4 less than that. Obviously the point is that with the more detailed info that has now been supplied, the descrempencies can be more readily explained. But you're not going to gain 27 hp with just a pipe on a stock engine. That was what initially was being questioned.
quote]Completed all testing. I re-ran all tests today. Man, I'm exhausted! It's hot and nasty in SoCal today. No bullshit, same day within 6 hours, it is what it is, and I'm really happy with all the results. For a "stocker", she's a runner!
As tested on '03 model, 5187 miles, broken in by the book. DJ150, SAE corrected, # 3 smoothing, EGA sniffer inserted. More comments below.
Box Stock - 159.4 hp, 91.1 tq
Muzzy/Jardine, PC3 disconnected, - 167.0 hp, 91.8 tq
Muz/Jar,PC3 connected, Muzzy map, - 167.9 hp, 94.3 tq
Muz/Jar,PC3/MuzMap, VP Ultimate4 fuel - 171.4 hp, 94.8 tq
Muz/Jar,PC3/MuzMap, VP MR9 fuel - 175.3 hp, 95.7 tq
All same plus BMC Race Filters - 176.4 hp, 97.7 tq
The fuel curves were all really close, varying in the 12.8 to 13.5 area. The last test with the BMC Race Filters proves they do indeed make power, but the torque is what surprised me more. But it's nowhere near the 3 - 5 hp that people claim. Unless perhaps it would be more effective when combined with internal mods. Maybe the fuel curve could be leaned out a little to add more power, but overall, it looked good.
For those questioning the purchase of a PC3. The test results above show minor improvement,more-so on the torque, but the fuel graph was superior. It is much more consistent and smooth with the PC3 & Muzzy Map. And of course you have the ability to modify/adjust it to your heart's content. Especially good (actually a must) when you start to do motor mods.
Bike runs great and I'm very satisfied with all the results. Hope this helps some of those who may be holding back on the mods. Big thanx to Doug Meyer for the tech assistance. The parts he supplied; exhaust, PC3, Map, Fans, Reed Block offs, and Steering Dampner kit, were awesome and I'm completely happy. Highly recommended! The only thing left that I'd like to do, is see what the numbers would be on a DJ250. Is there a standard correlation? It appears everyone is getting bigger numbers on a DJ250. Let the questions/comments begin! Better yet, screw anymore dyno testing. I'm going ridin!!!
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NOX
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posted June 23, 2005 09:21 PM
wow, I gained a ton of mph and et with U4, but from the charts you would not guess it. I am sure I will have to re gear when I get brocks pipe and a pc. I will do my best to get it on a dyno asap after I get it installed
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entropy
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posted June 23, 2005 09:31 PM
Cynics...
I HAVE tested the brock SW vs the BDE Hindle...
My difference in curves is just about what Brock is showing, albeit at higher hp.
Don't get too wound up about the BDE SS and SW hi hp numbers, its just the blip at the end of the pull
Don't get too wound up about the absolute diff between the 2003 (stock) vs current pulls; 2003 was in July (low hp), current in Jan (hi hp); and sure as shit don't tell me that any correction factor fully equalizes weather (we ALL know you get better #'s in winter)
Don't get wound up that it took 12 passes to get the AF right on a (presumably open) megaphone vs a conventional aftermaket pipe. Whatta you expect???
Look at what the SW does midrange!
Its a work of art and performs well; Brock should be congratulated for supporting the 12...
As far as bergie's insinuation that brock dumped a load of MR9 in it to get the curve... sheesh...
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NOX
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posted June 23, 2005 09:54 PM
What I am liking about the power curve, is I launch off the two step on my pro et bike at only 5500.........., I am liking what I see
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rac4it
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Bergie
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posted June 24, 2005 04:24 AM
Edited By: rac4it on 24 Jun 2005 07:50
I'm just saying MR9 will give you the same result. Did the SW make +7rwhp? Probably so. Most riders switch to a sidewinder for ground clearance anyway, not power, so even if it did not make more power it's typically not relevant for prospective buyers.
But why even question it? Look at the chart provided. Anyone who posts a dyno chart like that should know it's going to be questioned, especially when you compare apples to oranges and you're trying to hype up a new product. Brock should know better!
My apologies if I came off negative earlier in my posts, obviously I have PMS 
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NOX
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posted June 27, 2005 05:12 PM
either way, I am calling Brock tomorrow to pay for mine!! I am just glad I can talk about it now, I am sure entropy has known about it as long as I have, but this thing has been in the works for a while, and then brock showed me a photo back in jan, and my mouth has been watering for months. It looks ten times better than the muzzy sw to boot. Like entropy said, Brock should be given big props for supporting the 12. I tried several times to get Murray to build me a pipe, and he said NO WAY. No one wanted to deal with the tight bending that was needed. Good job Brock.
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Rac4It
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Bergie
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posted June 28, 2005 03:42 AM
when you get yours how about taking some photos so we can see one up close during the install
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NOX
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posted June 28, 2005 04:40 AM
No prob, will do. suck at posting photos, but we can work that out when I get the pipe here.
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NOX
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posted July 13, 2005 08:28 PM
I got it on, the head pipe looks a little rough, as I bought the dyno test unit, and it has been on two different bike, one of them being Entropy's, where it was before I got it. (Thanks for the fast shipping Karl!!!)
Fit and finish are great. So much easier mounting the pipe when you use spigots. Sounds too sweet with the muffler in. Dont want to piss off the neighbors yet so baffle is still in.
I suck at posting pics, anyone wanna help.
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entropy
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posted July 13, 2005 11:49 PM
NOX,
Since I donated the shipping, do i get to put a TeamFatAss sticker on yr bike??
A little Mothers paste & elbow grease will shine that header up just fine. I hope you didn't mind the tiny slot I cut in the 2:1 output; it made joining the 2:1 w/the megaphone much, MUCH easier.
I also REALLY like the way Brock's SW sounds with baffle in; I'm gonna run mine that way. 
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NOX
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posted July 14, 2005 04:41 AM
I will try the mother's paste, but it looks real good now, 5 minutes with an sos pad did it. Yeah, the fit with the notch was perfect. I had a buddy come over and bring me a spring puller, and he could not beliewe how well it was put together. I dont know if I will race mine with the baffle in, just wouldnt be able to get used to no noise like I am used to. Send me the team fat ass sticker, I am game for it. Funny thing is, the old pipe I had was a custom, READ-- and ugly, job we had made, but it worked real well. All my race buddies said it was a crack pipe, so I had my vinyl cutter make a small sticker that says say no to crack and will put it just above the megaphone. ha ha.
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vozizm
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posted July 14, 2005 06:12 AM
email me pics at vozizm@gmail.com and i will post fer ya!
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NOX
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posted July 14, 2005 12:44 PM
sent em. thanks.
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