jmorgan
Parking Attendant
Posts: 10
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posted April 03, 2005 06:47 PM
zx12 turbo ?
I have a mini sand rail that is powered by a stock 01 zx12. The stock horsepower was fine for about a year, but now I need more. I am thinking about a turbo for it, but I hear that putting a turbo on a zx12 is not an easy thing to do. The guy that will help me put it together has turboed about 10 hayabusas. I would like to get around 300 rwhp out of this thing with it being capable of 350 rwhp. Things that I know are I'm going to run a t-28 dual ball bearing turbo, I will make my own header, up pipe and air box, I will be running a BOV, and I will be running race gas. I might run an air-to-air intercooler along with a small shot of nitrous using a wet system for cooling.
Now for the questions, with the first being how to fuel this thing? I am thinking of running an aftermarket fuel pump with a cartech rising rate regulator and a power commander. I was told that the stock injectors would not be enough for the amount of power I want to run. Does anyone know what size the stock injectors are? Also what size would I need for the horsepower I want to run? Would these larger injectors fit in the stock fuel rail or would in need a new one? Where would be the best place to get these new injectors?
Now for motor questions. I want this thing to be reliable, so what do I need to do to the motor? Do I need turbo pistons, rods and a spacer plate? If so what companies should I use? I know that the stock clutch cannot handle this amount of horsepower, so what do I need to do to it? Would a single stage lockup clutch be enough? That's what the guy runs on his turbo busas. Who make the best clutch? Is there any other mod that the clutch needs? Where is a good source for oil on the zx12 motor for the turbo? Are there any plugged ports in the motor that have oil pressure, or do I need to buy a muzzy oil filter relocator kit and tap into it? Finally where is the best place to drain the oil back into the motor?
Thanks
Jason
  
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frEEk
Administrator
ummm... yeah
Posts: 9660
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posted April 03, 2005 10:06 PM
the main reason the 12R is said to be hard to turbo is because of the frame/airbox. since u don't have the 12's frame to worry about, it shoudlnt be any harder than any other engine. someone else will have to chime in on the important details you asked about as i'm no engine builder.
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kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
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posted April 05, 2005 04:17 PM
You need to run another fuel rail and injectors for that kind of power with the regulator that you speak of...
I personally would use Carrillo Rods and turbo piston also for reliability...
NO2 would NOT be necesary for the #s you are looking for especially if you inter-cool...
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jmorgan
Parking Attendant
Posts: 10
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posted April 05, 2005 09:55 PM
Thanks for the replies guys. Do you happen to know the size of the stock injectors? Also do I need to modify the throttle bodies to get the larger injectors to fit, or will they drop right in?
I've also been doing a lot of reading and found out for the clutch I will need to get the muzzy clutch kit, and a billet basket. As for as a lockup clutch I'm thinking a MTC two stage.
Here is a pic of a stock busa car in action
Here is a car with a turbo busa in it
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MadMike
Moderator
FEAR THE BLACK FLAG!!!!!!!!
Posts: 6579
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posted April 06, 2005 05:04 AM
I would say differnet injectors, try RC injectors, not so sure about the different fuel rail? but then again Kevin would probably know better then I.
Mad Mike
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200-MPH CLUB MEMBER!
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted April 06, 2005 07:02 AM
Didnt see a separate fuel rail on Dougs turbo 12....although it only has one speed....so a separately controlled injector setup woudlnt really be necessary if he has some UberInjectors or something 
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Do not taunt happy fun ball!
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted April 06, 2005 11:22 AM
You can get injectors that will support up to 600hp from Muzzys (or direct RC, but muzzys can help you select the right ones for the 12- no $ difference). They can also supply you with the information on how to use the stock rail as well as the correct fuel pump and info on correct ECUs and mapping. It's really pretty simple.
Doug
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted April 06, 2005 11:37 AM
Dernit...wish Ida known that yesterday when I placed an order with you guys for other crap I need
(sent you a PM offline doug)
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Do not taunt happy fun ball!
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jmorgan
Parking Attendant
Posts: 10
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posted April 06, 2005 02:00 PM
Doug, do I need to run an aftermarket ECU with the new injectors, or can I use the stock one? I was thinking of running the stock one with an aftermarket fuel pump, a rising rate regulator and a power commander. The power commander would be used to get the right air/fuel ratio. Do you think that will work?
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted April 06, 2005 09:07 PM
It might "work" but not very well. You really don't have any correlation between the MAP and the fuel delivered. It will sooner (probably) or later melt a piston or two. It's so easy and cost effective (less than $1500 and the ensuing blowup will cost you that) to replace the ECU it's really dumb not to just bite the bullet and ride (drive) happily ever after. Muzzys now has a couple of options for ECU's; I think they now have the new "basic" EFI Technologies unit available which is really a nice piece.
Doug
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jmorgan
Parking Attendant
Posts: 10
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posted April 06, 2005 11:03 PM
Do I still need to use the stock ECU when running the aftermarket ECU or is it a stand alone unit? When I call who would be the best person at Muzzys to talk to about putting this turbo kit together? Thank for you help by the way.
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted April 07, 2005 06:31 AM
The Muzzy EMS I have can either piggyback the stock ECU or replace it.
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Do not taunt happy fun ball!
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted April 07, 2005 10:21 PM
Talk to Curt, Ext 107
Doug
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spencercyclecom
Zone Head
Posts: 535
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posted April 10, 2005 08:55 PM
kevin,
I use the stock fuel rail. YES I modified the TB's to use the bigger injectors....bike makes 560hp with stock fuel rail.
I would run a aftermarket EFI set up... that allows sequential fuel injection...for best results
really depends on how and want you want...
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Thanks
Doug Ray
SpencerCycle.com
SpencerCycle Center Inc.
Spencer Performance Group Inc.
Toll Free 1-800-510-1945 ext #10
International 1-800-510-1945 ext #11
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Fax 1-704-642-0987
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kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
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posted April 24, 2005 01:55 PM
coool doug but...
I thought for "drivability" on a Sand Buggy (or StreetBike) the piggy back system would give him better "low/rpm-boost-speeds"... 
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted April 24, 2005 05:58 PM
Kevin,
I think you're confusing YCIS's use of the word "piggyback" with something like Motorhead's 8 injector deal on the Hayabusa. YCIS, please correct me if I'm wrong but I think you're referring to the ability of the MMS to run the injection and ignition "piggybacked" with the stock ECU running the normal bike safety circuits etc. on a streetbike or as a stand alone unit on a race only bike. No?
The MMS can provide excellent low speed driveability and over 500 hp with 4 of the proper size injectors like Doug Ray has. As I suggested, check with Muzzys as I think they are offering a newer, better EFI Technologies unit that also accomplishes this.
Doug
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted April 24, 2005 07:33 PM
What he said
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Do not taunt happy fun ball!
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kcadby
Pro
Posts: 1733
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posted May 05, 2005 03:52 PM
ooops...again...
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted May 05, 2005 09:34 PM
Turbo 12s...pfft
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Do not taunt happy fun ball!
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zrxdean
Needs a job
Posts: 2225
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posted May 06, 2005 07:07 AM
Drool. That looks high enough to avoid a scavenge pump. Nice work Tracy. -Dean
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osti33
Needs a job
Posts: 2973
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posted May 06, 2005 02:54 PM
Very nice. That is one sexy looking pipe.
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dougmeyer
Needs a job
moderated
Posts: 2713
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posted May 06, 2005 03:24 PM
No scavenge pump?
Don't bet on that.......
Doug
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zrxdean
Needs a job
Posts: 2225
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posted May 06, 2005 03:51 PM
I ended up with a Weldon on the ZRX Doug. Works like a charm, no more smoky. -Dean
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Nukedog
Expert Class
Posts: 449
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posted May 06, 2005 04:36 PM
YCIS - when are we gonna see that beast at the track...???...!!!
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02 Busa...Turbo...
09 YZF-R6S...
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your car is slow
Needs a job
Fuck Nitrous...Got Boost?
Posts: 4089
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posted May 06, 2005 05:31 PM
the day its running hopefully.
Noone wants to see it there more than I do..thats for sure.
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Do not taunt happy fun ball!
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